The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of May 21st - May 27th, we are reading chapter 23 and the Epilogue of Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy.

The thirteenth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK THIRTEEN - May 21st - May 27th -> 23. The Ides of March and Epilogue (490-519)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off February 26th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this selection.

Welcome,

~Vicki

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Adrian Goldsworthy

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Also, the citation thread: (for Unreasonable Men - look at examples)

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Here is the link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations or other books either non fiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self promotion, please.

Here is the link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - Spoiler Thread

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Link:

by Adrian Goldsworthy

Everyone, for the week of May 21st - May 27th, we are reading Chapter 23 and the epilogue.

The thirteenth week's reading assignment is:

WEEK THIRTEEN - May 21st - May 27th -> 23. The Ides of March and Epilogue (490-519)

Chapter Overview and Summary:

Chapter 23. The Ides of March


Caesar’s assassination

This chapter covers Caesar’s final years as dictator and his assassination.

Epilogue


Caesar

This chapter summarizes Caesar’s life and times.

Antony offers Caesar the crown

Discussion Topics for Chapter XXIII:

1. Shouldn’t the “liberators” have made plans for what they were going to do after the assassination instead of assuming everything would go back to the way it was before Caesar’s dominance?

Discussion Topics for the Epilogue:

1. Overall, did Caesar ruin the Republic or was it doomed anyway?

Epilogue: Overall, did Caesar ruin the Republic or was it doomed anyway?

The Republic was doomed anyways. The violence that began even before he was born, the ignoring of conventional ways that began before he was born. The Republic was dying, all Caesar did was finish it off.

I tend to agree, Michele. One after another of "great men" took over the state. Too many people were just out for themselves.

I also agree that the Republic was doomed already. I was surprised Caesar was ready to go to war again for another 3 years to fight on the Balkan and against the Parthians. Considering the amount of power he possessed you would think he could easily have appointed someone with imperium to fight these wars and himself stay in Rome as dictator. It just reiterates to me how much of a warmonger he apparently was. Or he enjoyed going to war more than then the political wars in Rome.

Overall a great nuanced book although a lot of time spend on the actual battles which are sometimes difficult to really imagine.

I think he wanted to be the one who defeated the Parthians and get back the standards from Crassus' legions. He wouldn't have wanted someone else to get that glory.

The events closely preceding Caesar's assassination seem to have been written by someone planning a novel. He tells dinner companions the ideal death would be sudden and unexpected. A soothsayer tells him to beware the Ides of March. Calpurnia has a nightmare and begs him not to go to the Senate meeting. He has dismissed his bodyguards. It's all really dramatic. I guess truth is stranger than fiction.

it was dramatic. Its like Shakespeare wrote it!

It must have been part of creating the 'Caesar myth' I guess. So dramatic you can't believe it's true...

I too agree that the Republic was doomed anyway. If there was no Caesar, it would have been someone else.

I wonder what would have happened if Caesar had left his fortune to Antony instead of Octavian and hadn't adopted Octavian. I don't think Antony would have done as good a job with the empire.

This last part of the book was really interesting and showed different facets of Caesar.
But the whole of Roman life from being taken as a child with your father to the Senate to the insecurities of Roman politics makes me wonder how these folks coped.
But I think in the end Caesar really had esxpected that the Senate that had given him his dictatorship would respect him. He let his body guards go - who wants to go thru life with body guards - maybe he felt enough of that on campaign.
When he wasn’t chasing women it seems he was working-he had ideas and plans to improve Roman life.
Msg 4 I agree with Michele that Rome was domed - unless it changed
Regarding Eric’s msg 6 I think that maybe two factors contributed to his wanting to go into the field again. First he was at home there and second maybe he thought he could do it better - also maybe he thought that his domestic plans might be better carried out with him away. Of course Eric might well be righter than I am - but I developed a feeling and vision of Caesar of a man of goal and principles (not mine and maybe not 20th/21st century ones) but that is what he seemed to be to me.
Regarding msg. 11 from Vicki I agree - I think that Antony would have been a catastrophe (maybe we are experiencing such now in America with another character)
thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and i apologize for being so late.

Thanks for your comments, Vincent, and don't worry about being late. The nice thing about books is that they are always there waiting for us.