The Baseball Book Club discussion

Share your thoughts on the June book I'm Keith Hernandez

Still reading 'THE BAD GUYS WON", but getting closer. Hernandez wasn`t a biggie for me; great fielder, pretty clutch hitter, but the whole cocaine thing pulled me away from him. Carter , Straw & Doc were the biggies for the club to me
Mike Linn
Of course Doc & Darryl partook

I'm almost done with this and will post a full review when done, but a few general takeaways:

It is hard to imagine a MVP player had confidence issues, but he did throughout his time in St. Louis, even after sharing the 1979 MVP with Willie Stargell. What he was doing to overcome this and what he needed from coaches was very interesting.

Old-schoolers will love his thoughts on the current sabermetrics culture - he definitely believes the best analysis comes from the eyes and ears instead of a computer.

As someone who sees and hears him frequently on Mets telecasts, it is very easy to "hear" him while reading this and it feels genuine - that this is really him talking. I don't get that belief every time I read a memoir, whether or not (most likely was) ghostwritten.

I saw Davey Johnson on MLB network promoting his new book and he is as old school as they get. He despises bull penning and saber metrics in general. I think all of them do from those decades.

Hernandez is much the same way - here is my review of the book:

http://sportsbookguy.blogspot.com/201...

Great review as usual Lance & while Hernandez has never quite been my cup of tea as a broadcaster, he does know his baseball & presents it in a very honest & open way. Initially I wasn`t interested in him or a book about him, but you know me, I read soup labels if they use the word ball on the label, like Matzoh Ball soup.
Mike Linn
good job Lance

Good review Lance. That's a good point about the player's voice telling the story. I get annoyed sometimes when it is obvious the ghost writer is telling the story without any regard to the player's own words or voice. The really good writers make you feel like you are sitting at a bar listening to the player spin tales over brewskies. Usually it makes the player come off as more likeable also.

I finished and enjoyed Hernandez' views on sabermetrics. It is hard to measure grittiness and toughness as well as team leadership. I chuckled when he points out that most managers will still toss most of the computer readouts in the trash. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back award from homers and stats in the next few years.

He does admit that the saber metrics on offensive stats are valid and he does accept them. I think everyone but Brian Kenny believes in grittiness and natural baseball instinct ot baseball IQ which can't be quantified in metrics; namely the Jeter play or Javi Baez stealing home(although allegedly that had been practiced). There is a lot to be said for the watching eye test. The problem is we can't all see every team and every game. So, that's where comparative stats of the new age are helpful-not the panacea but helpful. I'm about 60% done. I can't read as fast as you and Lance.

Harold to be fair on Saturday I'm offline the whole day and end up getting a huge chunk read each week. If it wasn't for that I'd be just as slow, at least this year.

Brina wrote: "Harold to be fair on Saturday I'm offline the whole day and end up getting a huge chunk read each week. If it wasn't for that I'd be just as slow, at least this year."OK-thanks Brina.

Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Davey Johnson despises sabermetrics? Wasn't he a math major in college?

Mike wrote: "Davey Johnson despises sabermetrics? Wasn't he a math major in college?"
I saw him interviewed on MLB for his new book and he was utterly contemptuous of saber- metricians. he says it is ruining the game.

Here is my review of Hernandez' memoir.

16965781
Harold Kasselman's review
Jun 12, 2018 · edit

liked it

Three and a half stars. I just can't say I loved it. I found it to be fragmented and poorly organized,something even the author partially acknowledges at the end. Secondly, I was very annoyed at the constant use of footnotes. This isn't a term paper or legal brief, it's supposed to be a collection of personal memories. Most of the footnotes were unnecessary, although there were a couple of doozies(Preston Tucker a third base coach had different signs for all fifteen position players). This is just not a compelling read that will astonish the reader or keep him fully immersed in the book.
Nor will you find salacious stories of sex and drugs: not that I'm complaining. in fact the subtle references to sex and drugs, even cheating on his pregnant wife, were downplayed. Yet the reader is left with the gut feel that there was much more there than a fleeting reference. There are a few fun stories about players and coaches. I found the story of a nine year old Keith Hernandez in the clubhouse, with his father, when Ken Boyer tussled his hair to have been endearing especially in light of the presence of Boyer as minor and major league manager in Keith's life. The story about hitting coach Harry "The Hat" Walker was interesting as well as the unwritten rules of baseball fight between Dave Kingman and the Cards Lynn McGlothen. Then there are anecdotes about Lou Brock and Pete Rose that encouraged the young Hernandez into being the best he could be,
Hernandez does bear his soul and confide to the reader just how low esteem he had for himself, and how he would worry and obsess about his batting swing. Perhaps that all encompassing obsession with the perfect swing was the result of an over-demanding father, but Keith has apparently forgiven him and understood his motives. I found his views on the crisis of today's baseball persuasive, although not novel. He does a good job detailing what is wrong with the rhythm and timing of today's game; essentially a home run and strike out era as opposed to singles, bunts, stolen bases, and sacrifices. He describes himself as an anachronism in saber metric terms. While I can understand and agree that baseball IQ can not be discounted or discerned in stats, Hernandez seems to disdain all but a few offensive metrics as valid. While he eschews the use of launch angle and exit velocity, I for one am intrigued by the stats. I wouldn't toss them in the garbage can as Frank Robinson did. So if you are a fan of Keith's, you will likely give it 4 or 5 stars, but I have to give him what I think it deserves.

I learned something from a footnote about Jim Lonborg. I had always known that he tore up his knee skiing in the winter after 67 but I didn't know that he was with Jill St. John who was one gorgeous woman. And she purportedly has an IQ of 162. That was a bright couple. Jim went to Stanford and became a dentist after baseball. I met Jim in 1987 and I met his wife in 83. That's a good story-I think I told it. If not and you are interested tell me.

Of course we are interested in your story Harold (I've never heard a Harold Kasselman story yet that wasn't worth repeating; several times).

I talked to Rosemary Lonborg's for The Bird--she co-wrote Mark Fidrych's children's coloring book "The Bird of Baseball." The Lonborgs and Fidryches became close friends on the charity circuit. They both attended Mark's funeral. Rosemary is a classy lady who has worked for decades with sick children at a Boston Hospital and the Jimmy Fund.

One other side note: When Jim entered a New England dental school not long after his baseball career, he was in a large auditorium and they had all the students sign their names on a paper. A few minutes after he signed in, he heard a voice from down the row, "Hey, some asshole wrote Jim Lonborg. Very funny."

But so much for the warmup act; back to Harold. Let's hear it.

Your story beats mine Doug. Yes Rosemary was very big with children in Phila. too and she did commercials in this area.
But here it goes; In the summer of1982 my ex wife and I were in Vermont. We loved it there in the summer. On the skiing mountains -(Stratton) of Vermont they had something like a luge that people would use just like skiing on a hard plastic luge sled. At the top of the mountain, I recognized Rosemary from her commercials. Jim had retired several years earlier but she was very pretty and as a baseball fan, I walked up to her and introduced myself. In my excitement, I started reciting all of his sts(I mean all) from 1967 and his best years with the Phillies. Well, her jaw dropped and she said something like "my goodness, you know more than I do. I'm going to tell Jim-it will make him feel good." He was not there-just her and a couple of their kids. I thanked her. (I didn't tell her that at one Phillies game Jim was flirting with my ex- wife while he was in the pen and we were in the stands. I was actually all for it (:))
Fast forward to 1987, I'm at an autograph signing event in Mt Laurel NJ in the spring or summer. Jim is one of the two people. I can't recall the other. So I go up and get Jim's autograph on a color photo I had. I tell him that I met his wife at Stratton mountain in 1982. He smiles and he says, "So you must be the guy that recited all of my stats to my wife that day. She was amazed and so impressed that she came back home and told me all about it. He shakes my hand and thanks me for being his fan." I melted.

Doug and Harold and Mike too, I love all of your stories considering that most of this happened before I knew what HRs and RBIs were. Anytime you feel like diverging, go right ahead. I appreciate hearing about it.

Brina wrote: "Doug and Harold and Mike too, I love all of your stories considering that most of this happened before I knew what HRs and RBIs were. Anytime you feel like diverging, go right ahead. I appreciate h..." Thanks Brina. I'll do that until I forget that I've already told them.

Doug, I cant stop laughing about the Lonborg signature. Thanks so much for sharing.

What's going on H-man? You wanted your wife to flirt with Lonborg. Were you hoping to be the next Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich? lmao.

Mike wrote: "What's going on H-man? You wanted your wife to flirt with Lonborg. Were you hoping to be the next Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich? lmao." Yes I was hoping for such action Mike.

I`m still stuck on Jill St. John
Mike Linn

I`m old, not dead

Me too...I had to read twice before I figured Rosemary was his wife not Jill St. John

Harold wrote: "Mike wrote: "What's going on H-man? You wanted your wife to flirt with Lonborg. Were you hoping to be the next Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich? lmao." Yes I was hoping for such action Mike."

But weren't kids part of the package too? That might put a damper on things...

We didn't get that far. Really, just to clear things up, I wanted Jim Lonborg more than my wife did.

LOL - a little man crush going on?

He was a stud

Harold wrote: "Your story beats mine Doug. Yes Rosemary was very big with children in Phila. too and she did commercials in this area.
But here it goes; In the summer of1982 my ex wife and I were in Vermont. We l..."

Great story Harold. It's cool that he remembered.

Yes Doug. I was so flattered by that. I wore a smile for a week.

I'm watching the Mets/Braves. The Mets officially suck. I would get rid of Jay Bruce. PS. Darling and Gary Cohen are doing the game. Does Hernandez only do home games?

It said in the book that he only does about 130 games a year. Maybe he mercifully has the day off.

He wasn't on last night either - probably didn't make the trip to Hotlanta.

I had the game on local radio while at work. Time of the game was 2:12 - WOW! Unheard of today. And man, do I feel for deGrom - an ERA under 2 for this team??? Put him on a contender and see what would happen. If the Mets are truly serious about trading him or Thor, maybe they would get a lot more back in about 6 weeks for deGrom provided he stays healthy.

Brina wrote: "It said in the book that he only does about 130 games a year. Maybe he mercifully has the day off."Good memory

Lance wrote: "He wasn't on last night either - probably didn't make the trip to Hotlanta.

I had the game on local radio while at work. Time of the game was 2:12 - WOW! Unheard of today. And man, do I feel for ..."
Here is what the Bleacher report says about de Grom suitors.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27...

Cubs need hitting not pitching. Bruce or Frazier??

Bruce looks awful, Frazier at least gets himself pumped up but he would miss playing more near his home
Mike Linn

I know that. Cubs need a spark and I wish they would get Machado already. I wonder what Mr Hernandez thinks of this mess that is the Mets.

Harold wrote: "Lance wrote: "He wasn't on last night either - probably didn't make the trip to Hotlanta.

I had the game on local radio while at work. Time of the game was 2:12 - WOW! Unheard of today. And man, ..."

Good article. If I am a betting man, I would say the Brewers would be the leading candidates. The Braves have the prospects, but I can't see the Mets trading him to an NL East team and facing him 4-5 times during a season

Lance wrote: "Harold wrote: "Lance wrote: "He wasn't on last night either - probably didn't make the trip to Hotlanta.

I had the game on local radio while at work. Time of the game was 2:12 - WOW! Unheard of t..." If he goes to the Brewers, they would have a mighty good team that could win the NL flag.

Michael wrote: "Bruce looks awful, Frazier at least gets himself pumped up but he would miss playing more near his home
Mike Linn"

Bruce is not doing anything he hasn't done for his entire career. If people in New York paid attention they would realize this is what you get from Bruce: A month or two when he can't hit anything at all and has the worst swing you've ever seen in your life, several one or two week stretches in which he walks on water and swats everything he sees out of the park, and a few months of better than average play.

It has nothing to do with pumping himself up or not trying. To quote Popeye: "I yam what I yam." That's what Bruce does. You take the weeks of .160 and hope the other guys can hold things up, then enjoy the weeks of .460 and at the end of the season (if you leave him alone) he will be hitting .250 to .270 with 25-30 home runs.

Check out what he did for Cleveland in the playoffs--when he's Good Bruce he can certainly carry a team. He just is never Good Bruce long enough to carry a team by himself. New York needs several other guys (otherwise dump him and start over).

In other words, you don't sign Joe Adcock and then get mad at him because he's not Hank Aaron.

The guy I referred to getting pumped was Frazier. Bruce is a waste of money like lots of the Mets signings.
Mike Linn

Cleveland is just too many yesterdays ago

I agree with Harold about the fragmentation of this book and the ridiculous footnotes that add little to the book. I usually like footnotes that add depth and flavor to a book but these ones were nothing but a chore.

One great baseball book with excellent footnotes in my opinion is Dynastic, Bombastic Fantastic by Jason Turbow. Not many baseball book authors use footnotes. Anyone know of some others? I imagine there’s an art to using them well.

I loved the A's book. Off hand, I can't remember but I think Paul Dickson used them effectively in his Leo Durocher biography.

Thanks, Harold. That Dickson book looks like a really good one. I’ll add it to my reading list.

During the Mets David Wright tribute last night David thanked Keith for making his heart grow when Keith said David could’ve played on the Mets ‘86 team. Keith acknowledged it and then joked that Wright would have to hit seventh in the lineup though. That was pretty funny! I love you Keith but you’d be the one dropping in the lineup!

I saw that too ASA and found it to be a witty retort. It was a feel good moment.

Asa wrote: "I agree with Harold about the fragmentation of this book and the ridiculous footnotes that add little to the book. I usually like footnotes that add depth and flavor to a book but these ones were n..."

Some publishers don't like footnotes--they think the book flows better for some audiences. I like them because they let the reader know you have researched things and are not just flying by the seat of your pants. Some books without footnotes make claims, or even have quotes, that are not well-referenced and they leave you with a little doubt as to their truth.

Doug, footnotes are fine at the end of a chapter but not when there are two or three on every page. It's totally distracting. I read them after the chapter