Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

For more than 20 years veteran radio host Clyde Lewis has researched the strange the odd and the bizarre. his writings, featured in many magazines, have now become legendary on topics such as HAARP, the fake moon landing, the apocalypse and about everything you could Imagine in between. Now some of his influential research into CHEMTRAILS, GeoEngineering, and Climate Change have been collected into one book. His theories are shocking, his conclusions are disturbing, and you will not put this book down… Read it if you dare…GeoEngineering the Apocalypse: Geoengineering The Apocalypse: The Truth About Chemtrails and Climate Change

For me, the question is that now that people are given their first taste of what is going to happen, e.g. record heat, people dying of heat stroke, huge forest fires, etc, what will it take for them to vote for geoengineering? If it were done now on a relatively small scale, we would know what would happen and we could vote intelligently, but if we leave it until there is no other choice, guess what is likely to happen.

As an aside, I gather that after 9/11 and when the airlines in the US were grounded, temperatures rose about a couple of degrees across the US. Something to think about.

Ian wrote: "As an aside, I gather that after 9/11 and when the airlines in the US were grounded, temperatures rose about a couple of degrees across the US. Something to think about. ..."

Can you elaborate on that, Ian? Not clear if you mean the planes are purposefully dumping stuff in the air that helps the planet, or if you just mean the general pollution from planes is somehow good for the atmosphere and planet?

FYI, I know virtually nothing about this subject and unsure if chemtrails is real or hysteria or something in between.

The chemtrails here are water vapour from the motors that crystallize into ice, which is white and is a good reflector of light. So there is no deliberate dumping - you can't burn kerosene without making water from the hydrogen. The reason there is cooling of the land underneath is simply because less sunlight gets to the ground - a sort of everse greenhouse effect . The reason this has an effect over the US is simply because there are so many aircraft flying there.

Like I said I don't know much about this issue, but I thought only the deliberate dumping (an agenda/conspiracy) would be chemtrails. Whereas what you're talking about, Ian, is naturally occurring contrails that everyone agrees planes create. Not everyone agrees chemtrails exist, in fact most don't - hence the conspiracy. That's according to what I know anyway...

Here's something to add to the discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQhT...

And then there's this also:
https://awarenessact.com/nasa-employe...

Yes, the geoengineering issue is that you put something up there that will persist and do the same thing. The key work in Rob's first link is "potentially". To the best of my knowledge, they are not doing it yet.

I apologise if I misled anyone - to a chemist water is also a chemical. Every material is. Water does the same thing as explained in the links except it does not persist. Any given ice contrail will have sublimed away in some fraction of an hour. A dispersion of something else might last a year, but you could not pt it into fuel without someone noticing (air pollution around airports) or you modify the aircraft so it only happens at altitude. So there are no additives right now.

Whether to add something is a good idea is a matter of opinion. The issue is, do you want to preserve our current climate or move into a hothouse? The current approach, which largely involves political promises to think about doing something about thirty years out will not save much of our climate.

Water vapor is the main greenhouse gas in the atmosphere that keeps the planet at a livable temperature. So airplanes dumping water vapor into the atmosphere shouldn’t cool the planet but rather add to the rise in temperature.

Amir wrote: "Water vapor is the main greenhouse gas in the atmosphere that keeps the planet at a livable temperature. So airplanes dumping water vapor into the atmosphere shouldn’t cool the planet but rather ad..."

Sorry, but in the upper atmosphere water will radiate more IR to space than will actually reach the ground. In any case, the reflectance of visible light is far more important because visible light contains so much more energy. Unfortunately, to show this in any more detail requires some rather tedious calculus that is not appropriate here, but (a) I assure you that is how the science works, and (b) that was shown to happen after 9/11.

I'm missing something here - airplanes dumping water into the atmosphere? I don't understand where that water would be coming from since planes are not steam powered.

Rob, you burn kerosine, which approximates to a formula (CH2)n. When you burn it, you get CO2 and H2O. The H2O, when emitted at about 35,000 feet, where the temperature is about -50 degrees C, freezes and forms ice crystals - they are your contrail. Eventually, because of the low pressures, they sublime and disappear.

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Ian wrote: "Rob, you burn kerosine, which approximates to a formula (CH2)n. When you burn it, you get CO2 and H2O. The H2O, when emitted at about 35,000 feet, where the temperature is about -50 degrees C, free..."

Contrail is certainly visually and content very very different to ChemTrails which criss cross our skies every day. One of the main components is silver nitrate which is toxic! i would love to know WHICH LAW GIVES THEM THE RIGHT TO DUMP TOXIC CHEMICALS ON US!

Leticia wrote: "For more than 20 years veteran radio host Clyde Lewis has researched the strange the odd and the bizarre. his writings, featured in many magazines, have now become legendary on topics such as HAARP..."

Thank you!!!

John, how do you know there is silver nitrate up there? It would be extraordinarily difficult to put that there because it could not come from the engine exhaust, and commercial aircraft could not have an adequate dispersion device without someone noticing.

Ian wrote: "John, how do you know there is silver nitrate up there? It would be extraordinarily difficult to put that there because it could not come from the engine exhaust, and commercial aircraft could not ..."

Ian, If you look at the contrail of a commercial airliner plenty of which fly over my area, it seems to dissipate very quickly and only seems to be for a short distance from the back of the plane,
However, the criss cross patterns of the "chemtrails" widen out, extend for miles, linger in the sky long after the aircraft is out of site!
People DO notice the difference, i have researched it in my very ignorant way, not being an exert, i lived in Vegas for some years, the sky if full of these Chemtrails, crossing each other, i have lived in many places in the UK, currently in the countryside, yet again, there they are! Airline contrails are totally different!
Silver Nitrate??? Yes!
I will try to post a picture of the chemical tanks inside an aircraft with the nozzle disbursement equipment!

Ian wrote: "John, how do you know there is silver nitrate up there? It would be extraordinarily difficult to put that there because it could not come from the engine exhaust, and commercial aircraft could not ..."

https://youtu.be/wwZQyz2t2zU

Ian wrote: "John, how do you know there is silver nitrate up there? It would be extraordinarily difficult to put that there because it could not come from the engine exhaust, and commercial aircraft could not ..."

Ian, this is an excellent video, with multiple references!

https://youtu.be/xx-STEA-Vqo

Leticia wrote: "For more than 20 years veteran radio host Clyde Lewis has researched the strange the odd and the bizarre. his writings, featured in many magazines, have now become legendary on topics such as HAARP..."

https://youtu.be/xx-STEA-Vqo

NASA references here!

John wrote: "Ian wrote: "John, how do you know there is silver nitrate up there? It would be extraordinarily difficult to put that there because it could not come from the engine exhaust, and commercial aircraf..."

https://youtu.be/FUbP7dMVoww

Another vid!

Yet another very good video!
From real people who are highly educated!!

https://youtu.be/IqATQtwOY34

https://youtu.be/YUT-p2so_k4

Again!!!

Thanks John,
Chemtrails is not something I've ever looked into much, so I'm on the fence on it - more because of a lack of research and not being scientific enough to understand it all. But I'd certainly put nothing past the bastards in power and nothing would surprise me at all!
And I hope you're well, mate.
There really should be a special trust set up for retired "Deniables"...And the likes of the CIA and MI6 should have to pay for it! :)
James

I found these two videos, which have quite a few references...

Chemtrails? Watch This! Then Try to Deny It https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6T41...

NASA Expert: Chemtrails are Real and Rogue Geoengineers Could Blackmail the Earth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X1j5...

Seems like something is going on, although nobody knows what...

James wrote: "Thanks John,
Chemtrails is not something I've ever looked into much, so I'm on the fence on it - more because of a lack of research and not being scientific enough to understand it all. But I'd cer..."

Good idea about the special trust, add the South African DSO to that as well! Still bouncing in and out of hospital here with
!!

A BACKHANDED ADMISSION ABOUT CHEMTRAILS? https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/11/a-b...

So if you don't try geoengineering (and slagging off without any physical argument, including the odd equation, is not an argument) and you persist in burning copious amounts of "clean coal" and tar sands to keep increasing oil burning, what are you going to do? Drowning Bangla Desh in a few decades is not considered bad? Probably because a few decades in the future is out of mind, and who cares about them anyway?

Geoengineering Dangers https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2...

Geoengineering Dangers: Originally trained as a physicist, J. Marvin Herndon earned a Ph.D. in nuclear chemistry and received post-doctoral training in geochemistry. In the latter half of Wednesday's show, he argued that geoengineering or chemtrails have created an ecological and health disaster, including making California more susceptible to out-of-control wildfires. As climate scientists have pushed the idea that CO2 is responsible for climate change in recent decades, a covert plan was hatched to counteract global warming by jet-spraying particulate trails across the sky, he cited. The main ingredients in the spray are pollution particulates such as coal fly ash, which are used to manipulate the weather in the United States, Europe, and elsewhere, he continued.

Perhaps, but who is prepared to pay the price if nothing is done? Of course it is your great grandchildren who pay the price, and who cares about them? The idea that all will be well as long as someone else gives up something is not going to work.

Ian wrote: "Perhaps, but who is prepared to pay the price if nothing is done? Of course it is your great grandchildren who pay the price, and who cares about them? The idea that all will be well as long as som..."

What if the 'actions' of these geoengineers are, in and of themselves, dangerous? You don't seem to contemplate that possibility. I very much agree with you about the need to curb hydrocarbon emissions but I do not have a great deal of confidence that our understanding of the world's climate has reached the point where we know how to start tinkering with it.

Is this Greenpeace by any chance?😊
Loving this conversation.

There are certainly risks and there is no doubt whatsoever that we cannot know exactly what will happen, however we do know what happens with volcanic eruptions that send such particulates into the stratosphere. As long as we do not exceed that, we should be safe.

If you look at the net power input to the oceans now, that power input would continue for about 300 yrs if we stopped emitting ALL CO2 now, and put zero other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. I hope nobody seriously believes we can stop all emissions, since many are from agriculture. The fact is, we have got ourselves into a mess that has been slowly building, and like the proverbial frog in a cauldron, we haven't noticed much. Now we know. If we stopped all emissions, and we did nothing else, we would still lose out coastal cities, and a lot of agricultural land. There would be massive food shortages because to stop N2O emissions we have to stop using nitrogen fertilisers, so our enhanced crops won't grow. And, of course, the heat engine keeps getting stronger, so the storms keep getting worse.

Doing nothing is an option, but your grandchildren won't like what happens and will probably curse you throughout their lives. But who cares - we shall be dead then.

Ian wrote: "There are certainly risks and there is no doubt whatsoever that we cannot know exactly what will happen, however we do know what happens with volcanic eruptions that send such particulates into the..."

I'm not sure what my grandchildren have to do with anything. I do not believe it is a good idea to mitigate a bad situation with an unknown remedy. The solution being applied might turn out to be useless - or even harmful. It brings to mind someone throwing water on a grease fire with all the best intention. That said, I believe your assessment is correct. Humans are going to have to deal with the consequences of climate change attributable to both anthropomorphic and natural causes. That we have "shit in our own nest" so to speak, for the short term benefit of so few is truly a travesty.

Your grandchildren are relevant because it is they who will start paying the real price. I argue it is not an unknown remedy - the physics are reasonably clear, and we have had major volcanic eruptions that show what the effects are likely to be. Provided the reflecting dust stay up there, the physics clearly states we have raised the albedo, and that lowers the power input down below.

Under an Ionized Sky: From Chemtrails to Space Fence Lockdown

Former CIA Director John Brennan discusses chemtrails, I mean stratospheric Aerosol Injections (sorry, my mistake), at the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjeAe...

James wrote: "Former CIA Director John Brennan discusses chemtrails, I mean stratospheric Aerosol Injections (sorry, my mistake), at the Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjeAe..."

The idea that some might lose (with no figures) together with the highly educated comments below the video (yes, sarcasm is running strong here) appear to override the fact that otherwise just about everyone loses out in another fifty years or so. Tough luck, great grandchildren. We were too lazy to think.

Here's another conspiracy FACT to consider...Now obviously, given this was about half a century ago, this would be small-fry compared to the classified tech the powers that be are utilizing now...

Operation Popeye https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...

Operation Popeye (Project Controlled Weather Popeye / Motorpool / Intermediary-Compatriot) was a highly classified weather modification program in Southeast Asia during 1967–1972. The cloud seeding operation during the Vietnam War ran from March 20, 1967 until July 5, 1972 in an attempt to extend the monsoon season, specifically over areas of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The operation was used to induce rain and extend the East Asian Monsoon season in support of U.S. government efforts related to the War in Southeast Asia.

The former U.S. Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara, was aware that there might be objections raised by the international scientific community but said in a memo to the president that such objections had not in the past been a basis for prevention of military activities considered to be in the interests of U.S. national security.

The chemical weather modification program was conducted from Thailand over Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam and allegedly sponsored by Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and CIA without the authorization of then Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird who had categorically denied to Congress that a program for modification of the weather for use as a tactical weapon even existed.[1]

Current legal status
Weather modification procedures, when performed to achieve a military end, now fall under the provenance of the Environmental Modification Convention.

With Operation Popeye, the U.S. government made weather an instrument of war https://www.popsci.com/operation-pope...
As geo-engineering projects soar, the declassified project is newly relevant.

Called the Environmental Modification Convention, the international treaty bars any action undertaken by military or otherwise hostile forces that could result in "earthquakes, tsunamis; an upset in the ecological balance of a region; changes in weather patterns (clouds, precipitation, cyclones of various types and tornadic storms); changes in climate patterns; changes in ocean currents; changes in the state of the ozone layer; and changes in the state of the ionosphere."

But Deborah Gordon, director of the energy and climate program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, says the convention is ultimately toothless. "You don't even know where to look," she says of current weather manipulation efforts. "There's a lack of transparency in the research. We don't even know what people are working on. You can't govern something you can't see. And that's for peaceful applications." Without the ability to measure these modifications, the Environmental Modification Convention or any other weather-related treaty is nearly impossible to enforce. "How will we know that there aren't Operation Popeyes… going on or not?" she asks.

The Rockefeller Way: The Family’s Covert ‘Climate Change’ Plan https://www.globalresearch.ca/rockefe...

Ian wrote: "For me, the question is that now that people are given their first taste of what is going to happen, e.g. record heat, people dying of heat stroke, huge forest fires, etc, what will it take for them to vote for geoengineering?..."

And what if record heat, people dying of heat stroke, huge forest fires, etc, were created by covert geoengineering, Ian?

"The Government Control The Weather - David Icke" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILv-V...

Weather Modification And The U.S. Military https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4qAf...

Massachusetts School of Law at Andover: http://www.mslaw.edu
The Air Force is on record as saying they want to control the weather by 2025. The Massachusetts School of Law's Educational Forum presents part 2 of a Conference on Global Climate Change with Dr. Ilya Sandra Perlingieri, author, educator and environmental writer.

This song by British rock singer Ian Brown (formerly of the Stone Roses) is about chemtrails:

Blue Sky Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwoF7...

Lyrics:

Whatever happened to a blue sky day?
Planes overhead sprayin'
All my blue sky day away
Sprayin' out the sun,
Milkin' out the sky
Aerosols at altitude,
At atmospheric heights
Jet planes making chemtrails,
Making gridlines in' the skies
Street graffiti not allowed, but vandalize...
Stratospheric skies
Whatever happened to a blue sky day?
Planes overhead sprayin'
All my blue sky day away
Sprayin' out the sun,
Milkin' out the sky
Aerosols at altitude,
At atmospheric heights
Jet planes making chemtrails,
Geo-engineerin' of the skies
Street graffiti not allowed, but vandalize...
Stratospheric skies
You think I'm crazy, would you rather I don't say
Shall we pretend that it ain't happenin',
And it'll all just go away
Jet planes making chemtrails,
Making dawn raids in the sky
Lines are spread like spiders' webs
And that's makin' all of us...
All of us the flies
Right in front of your eyes
Right there in the skies
Right there in your eyes
Right there in the skies
You think I'm crazy,
Would you rather I don't say
Shall we pretend that it ain't
Happenin' and it'll all ΅΅just go away
Jetplanes making chemtrails,
Criss-crossings in the skies
Street graffiti not allowed,
But vandalize...
Stratospheric skies
Right in front of your eyes
Right there in the skies
Right there in your eyes
Right there in the skies
The few that rule the many,
Yeah yeah we all got eyes to see
Some that just don't realise,
The rich man's trickery
It's the few that rule the many,
We all got eyes to see
Some that just don't realise,
The rich man's...
Plants, traps and trickery
Woke up this mornin' to a blue sky day
Planes overhead sprayin'
All my blue sky day away
Children, ask your daddy,
Tell your mummy look to the skies
Where have all the
Blues skies gone, all hidden
In plain sight

When you start to learn we have been manipulating the weather successfully for over half a century, it makes you wonder about Climate Change when you realize much of our weather may not be "organic weather" but rather engineered...Mainstreamers, even renowned scientists, often cannot make these connections and do not recognize they are "out of the loop" of classified science......

This is but one of hundreds of formerly top-secret weather manipulation programs recently declassified...

Operation Popeye Weather Manipulation Vietnam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ek5...

The cult of climate change?

GREEN SABBATH: Sunday Lockdowns for "Gaia" & Jubilee for the Earth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdsp...


Ice Age Farmer
158K subscribers
Climate alarmists--from the Pope to Rabbis to Greta--are calling for a Sunday "Green Sabbath," forcing people to stay home in deference to Gaia. Now that people are used to perfect surveillance and enforced lockdowns, the stage is set for this truly Satanic inversion: worship of the creation, instead of the Creator, on a day chosen by the Catholic church. Agenda 2030 and spiritual battles are playing out before our eyes -- will you be corralled along, or stand up as a free human and refuse to worship their Earth Day Jubilee?

Chemtrail whistleblower: ninety percent of chemtrails designed to alter emotions/mood/state of mind and provoke ‘flu-like symptoms’ https://www.nexusnewsfeed.com/article...

"Is it possible that in order to increase the Covid-19 case numbers and get the population to submit to the bogus 85% false-positive PCR tests, masks, vaccines and the rest of it, that the Controllers are having us sprayed with chemical irritants from the sky in order to provoke Covid-like symptoms?"

NASA has released a series of more than 500 dramatic images which, according to a headline article in today's Daily Mirror, "reveal that climate change is real".

Climate change deniers would say Planet Earth has experienced such changes before... and I'd suggest they make a good point.

When the world starts to cool yet again, as it did during the mini ice age of the 1600s and as it has done through the course of many ice ages, what will the prevailing narrative be then? And what fund raising measures will governments introduce to replace carbon credits?