Reading the Chunksters discussion
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Middlemarch - Prelude and Book One
Ha ha, don't panic, there are a few days to go yet :)Seriously, though, don't worry about it, the threads will stay open so you can jump in when you're ready.
So, we read the prelude and chapter 1 between the 15th and the 22nd?I am excited to begin.
Harry wrote: "So, we read the prelude and chapter 1 between the 15th and the 22nd?I am excited to begin."
It's the Prelude and Book One. Book One is 12 chapters.
Pamela wrote: "It's the Prelude and Book One. Book One is 12 chapters."Sorry, I meant book 1. Thanks for the clarification.
Prelude & Initial ThoughtsAny time a reference is made to St. Theresa, I automatically think about Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, one of my favorite pieces of artwork. I remember studying it in college; the various juxtapositions visible in the expressions of both angel and Saint Teresa, the union between heaven and earth; how the statue is housed, flanked between two other carvings that appear to be theater boxes containing statues of audience members who are observing the Ecstasy... like us. It's one of those masterpieces that's inclusive to the viewer, which is intentional in Baroque art.
Eliot, in the Prelude immediately draws a parallel to Saint Theresa and a potential main character(?), a female living within the constraints of the Victorian Era. A little girl walking the countryside, hand in hand with her young brother,
they toddled from rugged Avila, wide-eyed and helpless-looking as two fawns, but with human hearts, already beating to a national idea; until domestic reality met them in the shape of Uncles, and turned them back from their great resolve (3).She is further described as having a rapturous consciousness of life beyond self, a woman who yearns for more, strives for more in life, but is hindered by tangled circumstances. This brings me back to Bernini, his statue of a pious woman whose heart was pierced by an angel in human form, with fire tipped arrow. A piercing that filled St. Teresa with the love of God, a sensation Bernini captures in her expression revealing both agony and ecstasy; the onlookers experiencing both shock and dismay. In essence, St. Teresa is illuminated by the experience and the people who are watching aren't accepting of it. Our main character whosoever she may be, Eliot depicts as a modern day Saint Theresa from Avila; she is an outlier.
This Prelude has set the stage for a story about an unamed woman, as of yet; how she will navigate herself between what she wants for herself as a woman, and what society will allow her to have.
Reading Book 1 now, will post for Chapters 1-6 in the coming days.
Edith Grossman's translation of the Chapter 2 Epigraph:“Tell me, do you not see that knight coming toward us, mounted on a dappled gray and wearing on his head a helmet of gold?” “What I see and can make out,” responded Sancho, “is just a man riding a donkey that’s gray like mine, and wearing something shiny on his head.” “Well, that is the helmet of Mambrino,” said Don Quixote.
Ami wrote: "Prelude & Initial ThoughtsAny time a reference is made to St. Theresa, I automatically think about Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, one of my favorite pieces of artwork..."
Thanks for sharing those pictures, Ami. I love Bernini's work too. Eliot packs a lot into that short Prelude about the character we are going to meet. She would like to be a St Teresa, but she is in the wrong place at the wrong time, 'a cygnet ...reared uneasily among the ducklings'. Definitely an outsider figure.
Harry wrote: "Edith Grossman's translation of the Chapter 2 Epigraph:“Tell me, do you not see that knight coming toward us, mounted on a dappled gray and wearing on his head a helmet of gold?” “What I see and c..."
The Grossman translation is more modern, isn't it, thanks for sharing Harry.
I think these epigraphs in each chapter are worth a closer look, too. That scene where Don Quixote sees the man with a basin on his head and takes it for the mythical helmet tells us a lot about the character we will meet, and Dorothea's response to him.
We see there is a gap between her view of the world and its reality, and suspect this may lead to disillusionment.
Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Prelude & Initial ThoughtsAny time a reference is made to St. Theresa, I automatically think about Bernini's Ecstasy of Saint Teresa, one of my favorite pieces of artwork..."
Thanks f..."
Prelude
Yes, and that’s something else I wanted to say... Eliot packs a lot into that page before the actual the story even begins. It’s quite intriguing as to how Eliot has mapped everything out; the parallel to St. Theresa; how we too will be looking in, watching along as events transpire. We will be the make up that fourth wall.
I noticed the epitaphs as well, it reminded me of Thomas Hardy. he too incorporates them in his works.
Chapters 1-6 So in the first 6 chapters we meet many of the key characters in this story, and the first thing that struck me is how Eliot very succinctly draws her pen pictures of them. Dorothea is impulsive and 'enamoured of intensity and greatness', suggesting she is likely to rush in and make big mistakes.
Casaubon is a dry scholar who seems very cold but Dorothea is convinced he will be a leader and guide to her. She is so sure of her own opinions that she doesn't listen to Celia or Mr Brooke. I particularly liked the way Eliot slips a view of marriage into Mr Brooke's mouth. "It is a noose you know". Such an image of doom and fatality sounds even more ominous in the mouth of kindly Mr Brooke.
I also wanted to mention Mrs Cadwallader, it was some light relief after the intensity of Dorothea and the icy politeness of Casaubon to meet this colourful character. A mix of miser and snob. I'm hoping to see more of her.
I, for one, like Casaubon. It seems that he and Brooke could be a good match.My favorite character so far is Fred. I expect many great things from him.
Harry wrote: "I, for one, like Casaubon. It seems that he and Brooke could be a good match.My favorite character so far is Fred. I expect many great things from him."
Yes I like Fred too. But I can't see Dorothea being happy with Casaubon, once her illusions wear off.
Chapters 7-12 In these chapters, the courtship between Casaubon and Dorothea continues, and gives rise to some discussion of education for women. Dorothea gives the example of Milton's daughters who read Latin and Greek without understanding it. Dorothea is keen for her husband to teach her "These provinces of masculine knowledge seemed to her a standing-ground from which all truth could be seen more truly" Mr Brooke is clear that such subjects are too taxing, women should stick to music and art.
We meet Will Ladislaw, a relation of Casaubon's, and there is an intriguing hint that he is attracted by Dorothea's voice "It was like the voice of a soul that had once lived in an Aeolian harp."
Meanwhile Casaubon is looking forward to inspecting manuscripts on his honeymoon, and this gives the first annoyance to Dorothea.
Then we have the traditional literary device, the dinner party, where we meet the great and good of the area, and then Rosamund and Fred Vincy, and their rich relation Mr Featherstone. Eliot begins to introduce to the idea that social barriers and the division between town and country are beginning to break down.
What do you think about the various romantic relationships that are emerging?How do you see the political and social commentary that Eliot is weaving into the narrative - is this something we can still relate to?
I was curious about this book so I have been reading it the last week. I’m enjoying Eliot’s use of vocabulary. This is a quote when Mrs. Cadwallader is encouraging Sir James because Dorothea has already accepted the proposal to Casaubon.
“Come, come, cheer up! you are well rid of Miss Brooke, a girl who would have been requiring you to see the stars by daylight.”
I thought that was an interesting way to describe being expected to do the impossible.
Then there was dorothea’s reference to St. Theresa.
“and if she had written a book she must have done it as Saint Theresa did, under the command of an authority that constrained her conscience. But something she yearned for by which her life might be filled with action at once rational and ardent;
and since the time was gone by for guiding visions and spiritual directors, since prayer heightened yearning but not instruction, what lamp was there but knowledge? Surely learned men kept the only oil; and who more learned than Mr. Casaubon?”
To describe having a passion as something that constrains the conscious is very creative, I think.
Then, there is the description within the same passage of how social expectations have changed in the time since St. Theresa almost in the same way that something will go out of fashion. So I can’t help but wonder if Eliot is describing Dorothea as someone who is sort of frivolous even with her fascination with learning. Her fascination almost seems to be motivated by a desire to follow a trend.
I like the pace of the story. I was surprised when Dorothea and Casaubon were married so quickly, but if that did not happen, and the back and forth of the anticipation of it had continued into book two, I would have probably stopped reading. So kudos to Eliot for that as well.
Although, I can’t help but feel that even though the author chose a male pseudonym, the book still demonstrates the impression that it was written by a woman. I would be curious to know if anyone knows whether she was able to pass herself off as a male writer for very long.
Marie wrote: "I can't help but wonder if Eliot is describing Dorothea as someone who is sort of frivolous even with her fascination with learning ..."I totally agree, Marie. The episode with the jewellery at the beginning suggests that too, she tries to be very strict with herself but she can't resist completely. She's just not being very honest with herself, I think.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the book so far.
Chapter 1-3Am I reading “The Taming of the Shrew,” or “Middlemarch?” :P This woman is extremely passionate and temperamental, it’s nice to have the cooling nature of Celia extinguishing the fire that burns within Dorothea so frequently. The beginnings of this novel has brought both laughter and thought provoking insights. The humor is a nice touch that is woven into this narrative that is sometimes overwhelmingly dense. I must say, while some of these main characters are dulling my senses, I do love and openly welcome those passages including the omniscient third-person narrator, George Eliot. They are a breath of fresh air and propel the narrative forward, in moments where I feel as if I’m mentally trudging forward in waist deep mud. The last paragraph in chapter, following the long and rather dry pontificating of Miss Dorothea, puts into perspective and begins to instill the themes that were introduced in the Prelude ; such as, the idea of an epic hero and one’s calling in life. It didn’t dawn on me until I read the epigraph in Chapter 4
1st Gent. Our deeds are getters that we forge ourselves.that this novel takes place during a time in which people are experiencing a great upheaval in their lives due to the Industrial Revolution; it’s a penultimate moment in English history…in world history, for that matter. I believe there is a parallel here, between Dorothea and England, stuck in between their pasts and their future…how to best navigate into it while being shortsighted about it. I’ve never read any Eliot before; yet, she seems wise beyond her years. Her command in understanding human nature, the warmth with which she writes about a flawed humanity with feeling is inspiring.
2nd Gent.Ay, truly: but I think it is the world
That brings the iron.
Chapters 4-6
I find Celia to be the most intriguing of characters in these chapters; she’s cat-like, watching and taking everything in; she’s calculating, finding the most perfect time to be eloquent and charming to those in her presence; but mostly, how affecting she can be on Dorothea with her deliberate and exacting commentary. Compared to the extreme tornado Dorothea is, Celia is a nice breezy and sunny day…but watch out, sometimes the sun can be too hot!
Well if that wasn’t a proposal of marriage that dripped of honey, I don’t what is (sarcasm)? Oh, how terrible! And how terrible for Dorothea to be such a swoon over the letter, Casaubaum and the idea of marrying him. His proposal was completely self-centered, where are the doting words of loving affirmation; no, instead, he writes, that God has sent her to him to fulfill his life plan…hislife plan. What about her, what about Dorothea? I was under the impression, she having to write her response to him three times because her hand was unsteady, was a sign; maybe, she too was aware on some level she should not be marrying this man? Perhaps, Eliot’s use of “shortsightedness” for Dorothea is both literal and figurative, so far; people who are their own enemy…those who can’t seem to get out of their own way, their idea about how everything should be, hindering her from seeing things as they truly are. Celia does not strike me this way; in fact, there are no false impressions about her or how she observes the world. I like this about the two sisters, how Eliot props them up against one another. Who will be the better for it, remains to be seen.
Mrs. Caudwallder, she’s an odd bird. She too is born of privilege, and marries a clergyman; what is her qualm with Dorothea doing the exact same…a little too bothered with their upcoming nuptials, no?
Some colloquialisms, I didn’t quite understand. If somebody wouldn’t mind shedding some light on them for meWhile I understand the overall meaning of the sentence, there were certain parts I had trouble following. I put those areas in italics. Thanks for the help!
Poor Dorothea! compared with her, the innocent-looking Celia was knowing and worldly-wise; so much subtler isa hum mind than the outside tissues which make a sort of blazonry or clock-face for it (9).Help!
It is so painful in you, Celia, that you will look at human beings as if they were merely animals with a toilette, and never see the great soul in a man’s face (20).Is this figurative, or literal?
Mr. Casaubon seemed even unconscious that trivialities existed, and never handed round that small talk of heavy men which is as acceptable as stale bride-cake brought forth with an order of cupboard (33). Rather biting, is it not, that last bit?
Pamela wrote: " Chapters 1-6 So in the first 6 chapters we meet many of the key characters in this story, and the first thing that struck me is how Eliot very succinctly draws her pen pictures of them. Dorothea..."
"It is a noose you know". Such an image of doom and fatality sounds even more ominous in the mouth of kindly Mr Brooke.
I'm glad you posted this quote because I was most struck by how progressive his thoughts on marriage are, considering the time period. Not so much that he sees it as a burden, but his honesty regarding it from a man to a young woman.
Pamela said “She’s just not being very honest with herself, I think”I agree with you. I have been debating what she must really want even though she doesn’t seem to want to push past the boundaries that prevent her from pursuing what she really wants. Like, does she really want to go to college and naively think that marrying a scholar is a means to the same end?
There are clear indications of a negative opinion towards women being intellectual, which is one reason I wonder about choosing a male pen name. A couple times when Mr. Brooks talks about how women should study arts and how they aren’t capable of deep thinking, I thought to myself, “this couldn’t have been written by a man.” If it was, it would be a very progressive opinion.
I wonder if that is how people saw it when it was published because of it. Maybe they thought it was just very progressive.
Anyways, I am curious to know if Dorothea is more intelligent in this strategy of hers and simply feels unable to be honest with herself and others because she knows a woman is not able to become a scholar herself; or whether it simply motivated by a sort of vanity.
Ami said, “And how terrible for Dorothea to be such a swoon over the letter.”I agree with you. I realized after they had finally gotten married that there was no mention of affection throughout any of their interactions.
In some instance, the formality seems appropriate for the time, but still. There is never any mention of love throughout their courtship that makes me think that things won’t work out as pleasantly as either of them seem to think.
Ami wrote: "Some colloquialisms, I didn’t quite understand..."Ah Ami, you've picked up another theme I meant to mention, Science. Eliot was fascinated by it (influenced greatly by her partner Lewes who was an amateur but very well-read physiologist) and she introduces scientific concepts into her imagery throughout the book. There's a Chapter coming up in the next section where she gets really excited about advances in medicine!
So the outside tissues which make a blazonry or clock-face for it is referring to a person's face (made of biological tissues). Blazonry in heraldry is the description of a coat of arms, so it's come to mean a description or display. Eliot is saying, I believe, that the mind is more subtle and complicated than the face can show (don't judge a book by its cover springs to mind here!)
So I see some irony in your second quote with Dorothea accusing Celia of seeing people as "animals with a toilette" because in scientific terms we are exactly that, but Dorothea is on the defensive here and so is convincing herself she can see a great soul in Casaubon's face. She's not judging a book by its cover, she's distorting her view of the cover to see in it what she thinks the book is! Am I going too far here?!
Does any of that seem sensible to you, Ami, or does anyone have additional thoughts?
Marie wrote: "There was never any mention of love throughout their courtship that makes me think that things won't work out as pleasantly as either of them seems to think...Absolutely! In fact there are lots of indications that they are a terrible match, and a big hint comes in Chapter 10 when they discuss the honeymoon. Casaubon makes it clear he want Dorothea to take Celia along as a companion so that she's out of his hair while he's reading manuscripts, while she has an image of being his scholarly apprentice, learning from him by working with him. she's happy to give him space but wants to be valued and is hurt by his aloofness and dismissive attitude.
Ami wrote: "Chapter 4-6...Perhaps, Eliot’s use of “shortsightedness” for Dorothea is both literal and figurative, so far; people who are their own enemy…those who can’t seem to get out of their own way, their idea about how everything should be....."
That's a really interesting point, I'm sure that's the case, and as you say earlier it seems to apply more widely in the social milieu of the time as well. Celia is able to 'see' more clearly than Dorothea, and we feel reassured about her while we worry for D.
Chapters 1-6Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Some colloquialisms, I didn’t quite understand..."
Ah Ami, you've picked up another theme I meant to mention, Science. Eliot was fascinated by it (influenced greatly by her partner Lew..."
I love this, thank you so much. I had no idea about her affinity for science or her husband. Is Dorothea loosely based on Eliot?
All of it makes so much more sense to me; so yes, of course, it sounds most sensible to me. Thank you again.
I looked up "handed round," in classical literature...passing, to circulate and spread.
I think these epigraphs in each chapter are worth a closer look, too.
I prefer the chapters with epigraphs that have no sources, they are written by Eliot herself according to the notes in my Penguin Classic. The first time we see this in Chapter 4, which is probably why I thought the epigraph to be a clear window, allowing us to look into the chapter with ease; I can't say the same for some of there others.LOL! Cervantes' blurb went over my head, thank you for clearing that up!
Absolutely! In fact there are lots of indications that they are a terrible match...
Well, this is the crux of their relationship; whether or not they are a true match for one another. It appears they are not, but it's not quite clear; in fact, Eliot writes,
Because Miss Brooke was hasty in her trust, it is not therefore clear that Mr. Casaubon was unworthy of it (26).We're at a point where we're no longer judging Casaubon by his aesthetics, and it turns out, his soul isn't as appealing either...but is it? I ask because as a modern day reader he doesn't sound like a total package for her, but to the women of his time, he is a typical man of the Victorian Era: thinking of marriage along the lines of a transaction. The predominant role of a woman in Victorian society was to marry and take part in their husbands' interests and business, Dorothea doing just this. So, I don't think this is such a terrible union, if this is the motivation in marrying. Eliot's portrayal of the progression in their relationship, Dorothea comes to realize that even she may have been blind to her own needs, and isn't this rather forward of a female author of that era...to want more out of life, as a woman? This is why the character of Mr. Brooks, the only male influence in Dorothea's life, when he speaks so her freely about marriage is a poignant moment; especially, in comparison to somebody of Casaubon's character, another influential person in her life.
Posting for the rest of the book this evening. Thank you for your patience and this delicious discussion! :)
Ami wrote: "Is Dorothea loosely based on Eliot?..."I'm not too sure, but I do know that she had a thirst for knowledge from childhood and as an adult she associated with intellectuals who had radical religious and political ideas, so there are probably aspects of her character in those respects.
Thank you for....this delicious discussion! I love reading books like this with a group, we all spot different things and have different ideas. The discussion here really is great :)
Glad I've caught up with the group, so I can join this discussion. The book has been on my shelf for ages! I'm starting late, but 15 pages a day should put me to finish within the alloted time. It is dense prose, but I am enjoying the style of it very much.Regarding several comments above - the lack of affection in their relationship - this isn't one sided I don't believe. Dorothea is a thinker, not a feeler. She wants a teacher and someone to expose her to knowledge and ideas. I don't think she has a romantic bone in her body. I agree with Eliot that it isn't clear at this point whether or not Mr. Casaubon can meet her needs in that regard. At present, his view of marriage is very traditional, but will he remain rigid in his views?
Chapters 7-9Dorothea yearns to be taught as a father might teach his child by her future husband, Rev. Casaubon. She even goes as far as saying that this type of union makes for a happier marriage. Dorothea repeats this parallel between father and husband here…
"Could I not be preparing myself now to be more useful?" said Dorothea to him, one morning, early in the time of courtship; "could I not learn to read Latin and Greek aloud to you, as Milton's daughters did to their father, without understanding what they read (3,63)?We believe the pairing to be odd; yet, we are told this may not be the case…it remains to be seen. We know Rev. Casaubon is twenty-seven years older than Dorothea who is eighteen; her father was taken from her much too early in life; is it possible that she is suffering from papa pains, better known as a father complex?
Goodness, Dorothea! You bat. If home is where the heart is, I don’t think Rev. Casaubon has one; this house is beyond drab and dull. His cousin, Will Ladislaw, seems to the only source of life at their home; he was a real burst of color on those pages. I’m curious to see how he and Dorothea will further interact since they are both quite extreme in their own ways. Will has this ability to create a stirring within people, his addition to the narrative is a good one.
Chapters 10-12
Chapter 10 was one of my favorites, I love the introspective approach Eliot takes with her characters, and Rev. Casaubon’s thoughts are just as dire and lackluster as his home. I’m officially thinking the future union between Dorothea and Casaubon is a disaster waiting to happen. As similar as she seems to think they are, their requirements and needs in life are much too different. It's either going to be a rude awakening, or he's going to die, making her a widow... do any of you think different?
Even if Dorothea is submissive to Casaubon, she is clearly full of desire and passions; although it’s not of a sexual nature, in the presence of Casaubon who may very well be celibate, there is a fire within her that is slowly coming to the surface.
The latter chapters introduce two new plot lines, both in the vein of women and men wanting to better their social standing either by career or marriage. Did Eliot add these other plot lines to give a more panoramic view of society other than focusing on Dorothy, Celia, Rev. Cassaubon and Sir Chettam?
It’s very exciting to know Mr. Brooks may be running for public office, giving us a glimpse into the politics of the day. As if we need more politics these days :P
Areas needing further clarification on my part…It had once or twice crossed his mind that possibly there was some deficiency in Dorothea to account for the moderation of his abandonment; but he was unable to discern the deficiency, or to figure to himself a woman who would have pleased him better; so that there was clearly no reason to fall back upon but the exaggerations of human tradition (63)What’s he saying here?
Laurel wrote: "Glad I've caught up with the group, so I can join this discussion. The book has been on my shelf for ages! I'm starting late, but 15 pages a day should put me to finish within the alloted time. It ..."Nice! Glad you made it.
the lack of affection in their relationship - this isn't one sided I don't believe. Dorothea is a thinker, not a feeler...I don't think she has a romantic bone in her body.
I'm not sure how far you've read, so I'll wait to bring it up with you again after you finish Book 1; but I'm glad you brought up this detail about her...she is a thinker. However, in these first thirty pages, do you think she has the potential to be a feeler as well? As mature and knowing she seems to think she is, Dorothea is still quite naive and immature about life and the responsibilities of a woman.
Well, we all have feelings. I was thinking more in terms of, say, Myers Briggs. It seems to me she's an INT-something. Which is rare in the general population, and rarer still for a woman. I'm an INTP myself. Yes, she is very young and immature at this point. Seems to me she's looking for a father figure.
Ami wrote: "Areas needing further clarification on my part…What's he saying here?.."
This passage made me smile, an example of Eliot's dry wit. She's gently mocking Casaubon's lack of passion. His view of love has come from reading poetry, and he's decided to feel the emotions he's read about "he determined to abandon himself to the stream of feeling and perhaps was surprised to find what an exceedingly shallow rill it was" . The reader is probably less surprised to find Casaubon's stream of feeling is more of a trickle!
Given that he's not feeling what his studies have led him to expect, he considers it might be Dorothea's fault. But no, he can't spot anything wrong there (discern the deficiency) or think of a woman who might have been more to his liking. So the only explanation must be that the poets had been exaggerating the impact of their emotions! Delicious!
This crops up again in Chapter 10, where Casaubon is still concerned that he's not feeling deliriously happy about getting married. He regards happiness as " an object to be found by search" He's read the classics, but he's ignoring their messages about love being a natural emotion because he's so deeply ingrained in reading books for his understanding of life rather than living. I feel sympathy for him here, because he doesn't understand why he's unhappy, but it bodes very ill for Dorothea.
I am really struggling to get into the book! I don't know why, it just hasn't grabbed me yet and i find myself having to start over and re-read what I just went over like 3 or four times.
Katie wrote: "I am really struggling to get into the book! I don't know why, it just hasn't grabbed me yet and i find myself having to start over and re-read what I just went over like 3 or four times."I can relate to what you are say a little bit. I had a difficult time absorbing the large number of characters in book one myself. It was a little easier by the end of book two to make sense of everything, but it felt like I was learning about some of the characters for the first time because they kind of went in one ear and out the other the first time. Once I could get a handle on large number of revolving characters, the book has increasingly become more enjoyable for me, but it was somewhat challenging
to get into at first for me as well.
Marie wrote: "Katie wrote: "I am really struggling to get into the book! I don't know why, it just hasn't grabbed me yet and i find myself having to start over and re-read what I just went over like 3 or four ti..."thank you! I will keep that in mind. I have sat down today with the resolution to get further than the first page! and so far I haven't gotten far; only this time it is because I keep finding something witty that I write down to share later!
That's encouraging, Katie, hope you get into it more this time. It's a good idea to take a break if it isn't working and then come back to it. We are all reading at different speeds, too, so post in the threads whenever you're ready.
Katie wrote: "Marie wrote: "Katie wrote: "I am really struggling to get into the book! I don't know why, it just hasn't grabbed me yet and i find myself having to start over and re-read what I just went over lik..."Awesome! Can't wait to hear it.
I did fine in week one but in week two the politics of choosing a minister for the hospital bored me to tears and I fell behind. Finally made it through to book 3 and things are picking back up. Will probably need a break week in the future if it is possible.
Harry wrote: "Will probably need a break week in the future if it is possible. Yes, there's going to be a break week after Book Four to allow everyone to catch up with reading and the discussions so I will update the schedule. But of course you can post in the threads at any time and someone will be along to respond.
Pamela wrote: "That's encouraging, Katie, hope you get into it more this time. It's a good idea to take a break if it isn't working and then come back to it. We are all reading at different speeds, too, so post i..."Thank you Pamela! I found a kindle download on Gutenburg Project (great site!) for my kindle which is much easier to just highlight and make notes for later. Instead of copying passages by hand. I hope to catch up, since I'm very behind.
Quick Questionwhat does this passage mean... I just can't make it out.
"...that son would inherit Mr. Brooke's estate, presumably worth about three thousand a-year—a rental which seemed wealth to provincial families, still discussing Mr. Peel's late conduct on the Catholic question, innocent of future gold-fields, and of that gorgeous plutocracy which has so nobly exalted the necessities of genteel life."
Another clumsy sentence for me: "He thought it probable that Miss Brooke liked him, and manners must be very marked indeed before they cease to be interpreted by preconceptions either confident or distrustful."
Is it saying he is so confident that she would have to be EXTREMELY rude and open with manners to make him see that he is wrong?
Katie wrote: "Quick Questionwhat does this passage mean... I just can't make it out.
"...that son would inherit Mr. Brooke's estate, presumably worth about three thousand a-year—a rental which seemed wealth to ..."
This is a political and historical point about the rise of commercialism during the 19th century - Eliot is reminding her readers in the 1870s of what life was like in the 1830s when Middlemarch was set.
Dorothea's son would inherit an estate worth £3000 per year and in 1830 this would have seemed a significant amount in the provinces (obviously in London it wouldn't stretch as far). At that time, the big political question was Catholic Emancipation, which removed a number of legal restrictions on Roman Catholics, and Peel (Prime Minister) who had initially opposed the legislation changed sides and approved it.
In 1870, however, one of the big political issues was the rise of men who had made big money in trade and industry, the plutocracy. They had been gradually taking more seats in Parliament and gaining power and influence, at the expense of the traditional gentry. One effect of this was that an income of £3000 would probably no longer seem as generous, because the "necessities of genteel life" now cost a lot more. But back in 1830s Middlemarch, all that was in the future so they were ignorant of it.
Hope that makes sense, Katie?
Katie wrote: "Another clumsy sentence for me: "He thought it probable that Miss Brooke liked him, and manners must be very marked indeed before they cease to be interpreted by preconceptions either confident or..."
Yes, that's how I took it, that if you are totally sure someone likes or dislikes you, their behaviour would have to be extreme to make you realise you were wrong and they felt the other way.
Pamela wrote: "Katie wrote: "Quick Questionwhat does this passage mean... I just can't make it out.
"...that son would inherit Mr. Brooke's estate, presumably worth about three thousand a-year—a rental which see..."
Thank you so much!!!
Glad it helped, hope you are enjoying the book
We start reading Middlemarch on 15th September 2018. This is the thread for discussion of the Prelude and Book One.
I know everyone will be reading at different speeds, so please avoid posting any spoilers here before 22 September, or use the spoiler tags.
I've just started reading and will be back on the 22nd to post my thoughts, looking forward to reading your comments and ideas.