Middle East/North African Lit discussion

Have questions about Ahmed Mourad's (comic, romantic) thriller, published in the last days of the Hosni Mubarak presidency in Egypt? Translator Robin Moger will field them.

I plan to read this if I can optain a copy!

Lila wrote: "I plan to read this if I can optain a copy!"

Great! I hope you don't have any trouble getting your hands on one.

It was much easier to find the Arabic! I just ordered the English translation from ecampis.com

*ecampus.com sorry, typing on the phone while riding a bus...

Tim wrote: "*ecampus.com sorry, typing on the phone while riding a bus..."

Ohh, I wonder if the English translation was lost in the breakup between Bloomsbury and the Qatari HBKU Press.

Thanks, I found it on ecampus. Looking forward to reading it.

I'm reading the Arabic on the kotobi app. Enjoying it so far :)

Dang, I had a copy and have read it, I must have given it away!

Kate wrote: "Dang, I had a copy and have read it, I must have given it away!"

Oh no! You should get it back, they're selling for hundreds of dollars on Amazon. :-)

Marcia wrote: "Kate wrote: "Dang, I had a copy and have read it, I must have given it away!"

Oh no! You should get it back, they're selling for hundreds of dollars on Amazon. :-)"

I thought this was a joke, then I went to look. $429!

I thought this ..."

Yeah, do you have copies? You could sell your way to a month off...

Marcia wrote: "I thought this ..."

Yeah, do you have copies? You could sell your way to a month off..."

I do have a few! Half-price to the indifferent, a third off if you sound keen.

It looks like those high prices are for copies in Italian, German, and Arabic.

Those prices indeed apply to the English versions. I am sorry but I must sit this one out due to unavailability at a reasonable price.

Just found it on ecampus for $27.90 with shipping.

I finally got a library, but am unfortunately having a hard time getting in to this one! Admittedly I normally don't read political thrillers, so I don't think it's the fault of the writing.
Can some one please persuade me to keep reading?

You can just skim through if you want, and give your overall impressions. Your ideas about a book can include why you didn't want to spend more time with it! I have a few questions for Robin (the translator), but don't have them ready just yet. I'm still reading, but hope to wrap it up in the next couple weeks...

Melanie wrote: "You can just skim through if you want, and give your overall impressions. Your ideas about a book can include why you didn't want to spend more time with it! I have a few questions for Robin (the t..."

I am looking forward to reading your questions Melanie!
I think the main problem is this genre. I enjoy watching thrillers as movies but never had any inclination to go out and read the novels they were based on. I never read The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo either for this reason.
The combination between the fact that there are a lot of names of different characters right from the start as well as the fact that there were no interesting female characters also made it hard for me to get into.
I wanted to give it a chance though and read on. I'm only at the part where he starts working at the nightclub on pyramid street. I am hoping the dancer character Sally will be interesting and have a great role. She seems in many ways to be modelled after the real life dance celebrity Dina. And of course she is stereotypically "Raqsassa" no surprise there!

Unfortunately a typical stereotypical depiction of dancers and actress....like sharmutas! Sigh.....will this ever change?

I'm enjoying the novel more than I expect to in spite of the negative depictions of actresses and dancers.

I'm not done yet, but I can say that the shootout scene in the first chapter was totally spectacular. I haven't seen the film adaptation, but it seems written for (and inspired by) action films and cinematography.

Regarding female characters, I liked the relatively sympathetic moments depicting the Eastern European immigrant and the protagonist's sister. Both women seemed intelligent and human, even if they are clearly not the focus of this story.

I also enjoyed the author's introduction of an "Islamist" or pious Muslim character, and how he makes fun of the reader's expectations that this guy will turn out to be a suicide bomber. I enjoyed the humor in this move.

Ok, two questions for Robin (because it's already November - yikes!)...
1. It's been several years since you translated this book. When you first thought back to this book, was there something in the book (such as a scene or character) that first came to mind? Why do you think it was so memorable?
2. When you think of this translation project, do you remember any challenges (like a scene or a term)? What was the process like?

Thank you for your willingness to engage with readers here!

In the 80s and 90s I travelled to Egypt a number of times and ended up staying there for 9 months in 1995. I learned some of the dialect. One thing I always enjoyed about Egyptians is their humour. As I started to understand more I would often crack up laughing listening to people talk. I think Robin did a great job of translating the unique way that Egyptians converse!

Melanie wrote: "I'm not done yet, but I can say that the shootout scene in the first chapter was totally spectacular. I haven't seen the film adaptation, but it seems written for (and inspired by) action films and..."


Hello,

Apologies for the delay in getting to this, Melanie.
It _has_ been a long time since I did this book, which was, I think, the second novel I translated. I have to say the most memorable thing about this particular novel, was the fact that my then year-old son managed to destroy my computer and wipe the entire first draft of the book off my hard-drive while I was running him a bath, exactly twenty-five days before the deadline. I was too embarrassed to admit this to anyone, since it was my fault in a number of ways, & so the text you have is the product of an over-caffeinated, underslept and panicked rewrite. Perhaps because of the mildly traumatic circs, it’s fresher in my mind than it might otherwise be, though the process was really just Keep Typing and Try Not To Cry.

The language of the book and its setting are drawn pretty much from a (mainly cinematic/TV drama) cultural tradition of the small man against corruption—the ibn al balad finally pushed beyond even his great capacity for stoic cheerfulness. There’s nothing in it, from the action scenes to the bantering (slightly tiresome?) relationship of the main protagonists, to the confrontation of the aged cynicism and surrender with the outrage of youthful principles, that isn’t already deeply embedded in Egyptian TV culture… all the characters and situations are familiar.
I can’t remember any phrases or scenes that caused difficulty exactly: I was by-and-large familiar with the settings and the way people spoke. Perhaps the thing that exercised me most was trying to ensure the dialogue was not too overwhelmingly bro-ish or cliche-ridden, or flat.

Maybe, at the time at least, it was less common to find it in a book, and so (relatively) polished. The willingness to address more directly the dynamics of financial, sexual corruption & manipulation, and the use of violence to enforce it (however fantastical in some respects) was also perhaps less usual. It was also credible and frequently touching (given its genre and overall approach). At the time it was talked about in vague relation to the revolution—a brave book about the corruption that inflamed a nation—but I’m not so sure about all that.

The opening scene was the one I remember most closely, I suppose inevitably, with people’s skulls being blown apart and so on. Also it posed immediate questions (and also immediately clarified certain things) about how I was going to translate it: the writing I mean. It seemed to call for a certain sort of slick competence (which is the only way the more brash cliches of plot and character can be acceptable), and for that to be maintained even across passages in the book where Ahmed Mourad’s own style crumbled or stiffened slightly under the weight of exposition.

So much respect for you!

Melanie wrote: "I'm not done yet, but I can say that the shootout scene in the first chapter was totally spectacular. I haven't seen the film adaptation, but it seems written for (and inspired by) action films and..."

!!! A lot of the novel is just that--dialogue--so I'm very glad you think so. As for attitudes to dancers and so on, you're quite right: it is sensitive enough in some regards to the gendered difficulties of agency within society and the obstacles posed to young love and freely displayed affection, but it is also writing out of that society. Perhaps, though, you could argue that the depiction of Sally is not _untrue_, and that the exploitation she suffers and internalises as inevitable is as important to show in its way as a story of hope and ultimate triumph over the forces that bring it about. It isn't subtle, but it isn't cruel or thoughtless to show her in that way. And sharmata _is_ a theme of the novel: everyone is bent to the needs of money and power.

ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "So much respect for you!"

!!! What a lovely thing to say! Good to meet you on here at last.

Thanks Robin! Good to see you on GR as well!

I finally finished reading Vertigo (sorry for taking so long with it Robin, and just to clarify, I read the Arabic only, but I'm sure the translation rendered it very well in English). I agree with Robin's analysis.

This novel's broad appeal can be attributed at least in part to the plot and the style. The plot: an everyman character stands up against corruption, representing a network much bigger than any single individual.

The style reminds me of that of American John Grisham. It is close to television scripts in language (incorporating 3ammiyya spoken language and familiar turns of phrase). I'm not at all bothered by the presence of cliches: one person's cliche is another's lovable street talk. The primary purpose of this book is entertainment, which I certainly value. I would recommend this book to both native speakers and learners of Arabic who are looking for a thriller about the search for 'the good life' in the midst of corruption and crime in contemporary Egypt.