Reading the Chunksters discussion

Here you can post your thoughts about Book Two.

I can’t decide whether lydgate or Dorothea is my favorite character after book 2. I loved the deeper descriptions of both characters.

Lydgate because of the description of the development of healthcare that coexists with a deeper look into his background. I just find him fascinating.

However, Dorothea shows such a different side in this book, I can’t help but cheer for her when she experiences her first disappointments in marriage.

I also loved the dialogue that takes place in chapter 19 and to the end of book 2. Truly brilliant composition of dialogue, in my opinion.

Marie wrote: "I can’t decide whether lydgate or Dorothea is my favourite character after book 2..."

I'm finding Lydgate really interesting too. I liked the way Eliot weaved his personal backstory into the discussion of his reformist ideas.

I have two more chapters to read in Book Two and then I'll post some thoughts over the weekend.

Chapters 13-18

So now we move to another strand of the narrative - the banker Bulstrode and the politics of appointing the chaplain for the new hospital. Bulstrode's rigid religious views may be setting him up to be shown as a hypocrite? He's certainly viewed with suspicion in Middlemarch as he's a newcomer.

Lydgate is an interesting character, a reformer with a passion for medicine. Eliot's interest in scientific matters comes to the fore as she talks about Bichat, who apparently distinguished 21 types of tissue. This may explain the passage Ami picked up on in Book One, with references to ' tissues'. Lydgate has a failed romance in his past, which could bode ill for Rosamond's plans.

All this leads to Lydgate being put on the spot with the casting vote for the chaplain. Farebrother has tried to warn him about Bulstrode, but Lydgate ends up voting for Tyke and feeling guilty. "The affair of the chaplaincy remained a sore point in his memory as a case in which this petty medium of Middlemarch had been too strong for him."

Chapters 19-22

Now we're back with Dorothea on her honeymoon in Rome, where she is spotted by Will Ladislaw's friend Naumann. We become aware that things are not going well between Casaubon and Dorothea - she wants to know what he feels about the works of art they see, but he can only tell her what the books say about them.

"There is hardly any contact more depressing to a young ardent creature than that of a mind in which years full of knowledge seem to have issued in a blank absence of interest or sympathy."

Dorothea and Casaubon spend some time sitting as models for Naumann and there are discussions about art and artists. I felt a bit sorry for Casaubon here as Naumann and Will are mocking him, but he does bring it on himself with his vanity. Still Will calling him a "cursed white-blooded pedantic coxcomb" seems rather harsh!

Dorothea also upsets Casaubon with her enthusiasm about his book, she wants to help but he is irritated by her persistence. When Will pays a visit to Dorothea we learn the possible reason for his reluctance - his scholarly work is out of date because he can't read German, the language of more recent scholarship on the subject. There is such a tangle of emotions in these last few chapters - Will's attraction to Dorothea but his awareness that he owes respect to Casaubon who finances his studies, Dorothea beginning to lose her illusions and Casaubon's jealousy and coldness.

Pamela wrote: "Lydgate has a failed romance in his past"

What did you think about Lydgate story of heartbreak? I thought it was an interesting way to show a more naive side of Lydgate that motivates him to be self disciplined rather than risk being heartbroken again.

I don't know whether I should indicate a spoiler before I say something because I am still rather new around here, but this would be a spoiler I am sure if anyone still hasn't finished reading this section.


When she said that she did end up killing her husband with such a casual air, my heart just dropped to my stomach. I just felt so bad for him and he doesn't seem to respond with a whole lot of emotion. He doesn't really seem mad or sad. It is just like someone knocked the wind out of him and he is speechless.

I think it was one of my favorite parts.

I liked the story as it showed Lydgate had feelings, even if he's now devoted himself to medicine. He was certainly horrified by finding out the truth about Laure, I think he was too shocked to say much to her. It also shows that he's not thinking the same way at Rosamund at the moment, marriage is off the agenda for now.

Marie wrote : " I don't know whether I should indicate a spoiler before I say something..."

Once we reach the end of the week for reading a Book, then it's OK to talk about anything in it. Before then, you should use spoiler tags. Usually people won't come to the thread until they're ready to discuss it all anyway.

Pamela wrote: "Marie wrote : " I don't know whether I should indicate a spoiler before I say something..."

Once we reach the end of the week for reading a Book, then it's OK to talk about anything in it. Before ..."

Good to know. Thank you. :)

Chapters 13-17
Vocation, vocation, vocation…A prevalent subject discussed by most characters in these chapters. We know what most everybody does for a living, if they are content doing it, if they think they are meant for a bigger and better calling, an air of great change is in effect for some of these Middlemarchers.

I am most taken by the preliminary chapters from Book 2 because I didn’t realize I needed a such a change in scenery…I didn’t realize how affecting Dorothea and Casaubon have been. While I have great hope in a change in character for Dorothea, both her life at present and her life choices wear heavy.

Fred Vincy and Mary Garth, T. Lydgate and Rosemond, the battle of the vicar’s, Bulstrode’s financial reach and personal influence amongst the Middlemarchers, Fred Vincy’s debt, Mr. Garth a would be creditor, T. Lydgate and his time spent in Paris, all of these happenings were exciting and the change of pace was most welcome compared Book 1.

The budding relationship between Fred and Mary, is one I champion behind; although, I’m not completely sure of Fred’s intentions at this time. He seems to have genuine affections for her, but his debt to her father…I don’t know how it will play into all of this. I’m quite curious as to how these chips will fall.

T. Lydgate and Dorothea, maybe even Casaubon to a degree, are depicted as characters who have realized expectations for their futures. I find Dorothea and Lydgate to be quite similar, they are their own worst enemy, their inability to see beyond them themselves hindering their ideas of life from coming to fruition, both carry on with airs, society viewing them as such (calling her extreme and him a prig). We’ve already discussed Dorothea and her short sightedness, but Lydgate’s infatuation with his Parisian actress would be an example of his…even after she admits to killing her husband, he still refuses to believe her intentions because he doesn’t think she is capable of it.

I am really enjoying how Eliot continues to move the plot forward with these cliffhangerish type sentences found at the end of some of the chapters, and by adding new characters into the fold.

Questions
In Chapter XVI, Eliot write Mr. Farebrother, whose black was very threadbare…He makes a good living, he’s a gambler (a good one), does she mean to say his appearance wasn’t important to him considering how important his role in Middlemarch society is? I love this character, by the way…he’s intriguing.

Ami wrote: "I find Dorothea and Lydgate to be quite similar, they are their own worst enemy, their inability to see beyond them themselves hindering their ideas of life from coming to fruition, both carry on with airs, society viewing them as such (calling her extreme and him a prig)."

This is a very interesting comparison that I didn't notice before, but I think you are right. They do have certain similarities.

Ami wrote: "Chapters 13-17
... Questions ..."

I think actually Mr. Farebrother is rather impoverished, quite typical in the Victorian age where a clergyman is usually a gentleman but without necessarily having the means to support the position. He has three dependants to support, and freely admits in Chapter 17 that he could do with the forty pounds from the hospital post. So whose black was very threadbare suggests to me that he is wearing the clothes of a gentleman (i.e. the black of a dinner suit) but has not been able to replace it for some time so it is old and shabby.

Of course he shouldn't really be gambling if he's hard up, but he's the first to admit he's not perfect. And that in itself is a contrast with a lot of the hypocrisy that Eliot is slowly revealing about Middlemarch.

Did anyone else smile at the bit in Chapter 16 when Lydgate is holding forth about the ignorance of coroners - to the coroner! Really putting his foot in it with the great and good of Middlemarch society!

I like the way Eliot is making a serious point about society but in an amusing way here, quite a gentle satire.

Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Chapters 13-17
... Questions ..."

I think actually Mr. Farebrother is rather impoverished, quite typical in the Victorian age where a clergyman is usually a gentleman but without neces..."

I’m not sure what I was thinking here, I think Lydgate’s observation about finding what Farebrother spends his money on “surprising,” led me to believe his spending habits odd for a Vicar...didn’t he spend it on books and specimens? I didn’t even think about his mother or sister’s well being or how they were being provided for.

Yes, I too remember him saying the compensation that came with the position would be helpful, not realizing he may have been spread thin. Makes obvious sense.

Pamela wrote: "Did anyone else smile at the bit in Chapter 16 when Lydgate is holding forth about the ignorance of coroners - to the coroner! Really putting his foot in it with the great and good of Middlemarch..."

SMH!

Yes, I equate my liking what I’ve read in this book to understanding Middlemarch society better. The contrast in the various relationships forming, both of romantic and societal means, is also noteworthy. Almost finished with 2, Pamela... will post those thoughts a little later.

Thanks!

Ami wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Chapters 13-17
... Questions ..."

didn't he spend it on books and specimens?..."

That's a fair point, they do seem to be his indulgence- maybe because he wanted to be a scientist rather than a clergyman?

In Chapter 18, Farebrother seems to be playing billiards for small sums because he needs the money. And at the meeting Dr Sprague says "He has none too much - has to insure his life, besides keeping house, and doing a vicar's charities". . So I think he's struggling a bit.

Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Ami wrote: "Chapters 13-17
... Questions ..."

didn't he spend it on books and specimens?..."

That's a fair point, they do seem to be his indulgence- maybe because he wa..."

Chapters 18-22
Now, that I've read chapter 18, Farebrother's finances do make more sense to me.

The latter chapters in this book have me thinking this novel is not only a testament to its times, but I'm absolutely gob-smacked by how prevalent it is at present. No matter how torn Lydgate appears to be in casting his vote for the next chaplain of the hospital, it ends up being that he must cast the "tie breaking" vote! Good Lord! Internal argument aside, Lydgate votes for Tyke the unpopular candidate, and against his new friend, Farebrother; thus, making Lydgate Bulstrode's pawn... or does it? I found Lydgate's words describing how he feels having to live with his decision quite poignant...

The affair of the chaplaincy remained a sore point in his memory as a case in which this petty medium of Middlemarch had been too strong for him (187).

Politics prevailed in Middlemarch too. It's good to know, however, that Farebrother is such an understanding man.

Dorothea/Mrs. Cassobaun, looks like the honeymoon isn't what she quite expected it to be; she is finally seeing Mr. Cassobaun as the closed off and unfeeling character that he is. What are the odds that Will is also in Rome while the Cassobaun's are on honeymoon? The Will and Dorothea dynamic has quickly transitioned from one of a cold nature, to one of warmth and better regard for one another. I'm quite taken by this second cousin of Cassaubon's...how he wants to be independent of his benefactor, all because he wants Dorothea to accept him as a more serious individual. Well, this is most curious, isn't it?

Remainder of Book 2
Since I am behind in my posting and the discussion has come to an end, I would like to contribute my overall conceptualization for the remainder of this chapter. There is a new dynamic at play, one between Ladislaw and Dorothea. I assumed something would happen between the two, the dislike of one another from when they had first met each other. It was a little bit of a give away, or maybe just wishful thinking on my part… that things would, at some point, be different between the two? What I see now is physical movement of Ladislaw’s thoughts and emotions, how they are transitioning around Dorothea while they are in Rome together. Sometimes a change of scenery enables one to see things and people differently, does it not? What I am most struck by, is this happenstance meeting between two polar opposite characters who are drawn by a central point otherwise known as, Cassaubon; Dorothea to her love and admiration of the man, and Ladislaw to a familial and monetary association. How this meeting of one another in a different place, has brought about great change in perception between the two about their lives… that tend to revolve around Cassaubon, and both for very different reasons. Dorothea is enduring and finally realizing that her marriage isn’t as blissful as she had expected, and Ladislaw as well sees his life too dependent upon Cassaubon; while one seeks the comfort of his embrace, wanting to be closer to him, the other now wants his independence from Cassaubon. I clearly see Will singing a different tune for both Dorothea and Cassaubon, but are there any hints as to Dorothea seeing Will in a different light?