IRED Bookclub discussion

This thread is for the people who have finished the book, so there will be spoilers for the entire book here!

Be sure to check out the thread once in a while during March, as we read the book. Don't hesitate to share your opinions - likes and dislikes - and any questions or discussions about the book you might have.

Final thoughts. I thought the story was good and based on that alone I would probably have given this about 3.5 stars, but I found that reading this book felt like a chore considering the general absurdity of the words used. Eventually, the language made more sense, but I didn't feel like I personally gained anything from the author's dedication to telling the story in a unique way.

I'm just gonna post the small Review I did here because I think it sums up my opinion nicely
A difficult read. The slang words used by the protagonist take some time to get used to. The story itself was good. Nothing breathtaking, it was (just) interesting. This is one of those books you can think about for hours after you finished it. The ending left me a bit unsatisfied though.

Bernd wrote: "I'm just gonna post the small Review I did here because I think it sums up my opinion nicely
A difficult read. The slang words used by the protagonist take some time to get used to. The story itself..."

This sums up how I felt well. It was definitely interesting but nothing breathtaking. Thought provoking nonetheless. I think that because now I've read plenty of violent books and watched so many violent movies that nothing shocks me anymore.

I really enjoyed the book. I get what you're saying, Naomi, that it didn't necessarily add anything that it was written this way, but near the end it becomes very obvious that talking like this is far from normal and sounds silly to regular people. I agree that the story had still been good even if the language had been normal, but it had probably been slightly different.

Also, early in the book, did I misunderstand it or did Alex rape two ten-year old girls? That really turned me off the book for a while there.

I'll post my review here, too:
The start of the book turned me off, but I was quickly dragged back into the story. I didn't mind the weird slang, even though it did slow down the pace quite a lot. Alex was a surprisingly likeable character, even though he's very clearly a terrible person that I should be hating. But as he's put under all of this torture, I ended up feeling sorry for him - which was also weird because I really shouldn't be on his side. A very immersive read. However, the reason this fails to get a top rating from me, is that the ending was really bad. I didn't like the 'happy ever after, but also not really' style. I also don't think the title was very good, but that's nitpicking.

Jonas wrote: "I really enjoyed the book. I get what you're saying, Naomi, that it didn't necessarily add anything that it was written this way, but near the end it becomes very obvious that talking like this is ..."

Dude I know! I was seriously like wait was that RAPE???? I don't know why that shocked me so much but I didn't think they were that dedicated to the criminal life.

Excluding the last few chapters, this was a phenomenal book. The imagery is vivid, the prose is engagingly conversational, the mood is incredibly dark but somehow still casual. The extensive use of slang goes a long way toward providing authenticity while also masking the horror of the main character's actions.

The story abounds with philosophical and moral quandaries, particularly as regards good vs. evil, free will, and the chaplain's question of whether a person is genuinely good if he lacks the ability to choose otherwise. I was really interested to see how these ideas played out once Alex is reprogrammed and sent back into society.

But then the last section of the book sort of just made the whole society seem like a violent free-for-all. The police beat Alex savagely, as did the men at the library. His parents turn him away in favor of a boarder (who also ends up getting arrested), while the men who sheltered him after the beatings ended up torturing him to the point of suicide. Interestingly, Alex's reprogramming leaves him incapable of functioning in such a society but even this paradox is cut off with minimal exploration when Alex is "cured". And then Alex chooses not to continue his old ways - suddenly and unconvincingly, in my opinion.

So overall, I thought the novel was very good. It did a lot of things right and raised a lot of interesting questions. Unfortunately, it didn't resolve in a way that would answer or even truly dwell on the questions it asked.

Ben wrote: "Excluding the last few chapters, this was a phenomenal book. The imagery is vivid, the prose is engagingly conversational, the mood is incredibly dark but somehow still casual. The extensive use of..."

Interesting take. How did you feel about Alex at the end of the book? I'm usually an extremely empathetic person but I had a hard time feeling sorry for this one for some reason.

Naomi wrote: "How did you feel about Alex at the end of the book? I'm usually an extremely empathetic person but I had a hard time feeling sorry for this one for some reason. "

I ended up feeling sort of indifferent about him. I think that the early part of the book did a god job making him likable in spite of his crimes and then the torture and release made him more sympathetic. But when he returns to violence and then reluctantly gives it up seemed odd and sort of lost me.

I found this a really engaging read (once I got ahold of the vernacular that is). In some ways a conflicting read though, I found myself sympathising with Alex despite him being a truly terrible person. Perhaps because of the nuances of his personality that are included (love of music for example).
The ending was somewhat disatisfying, but overall a good read.
I really enjoyed the slang by the end, it gave the book some depth, as well as a genuine feel. Once I was accustomed to it, it felt extremely immersive.
My favourite quote: "It's funny how the colours of the like real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen".

Will wrote: "I found this a really engaging read (once I got ahold of the vernacular that is). In some ways a conflicting read though, I found myself sympathising with Alex despite him being a truly terrible pe..."

Very interesting point made about how his personality made you sympathize with him. I think that's what typically does it for me too, although I've never been able to put it into words. I always find myself empathizing with characters that I see parts of myself in. Even the worst people are just people at the end of the day, and it's dishearting yet fascinating to learn about what breaks them and makes them the way that they are.

My favorite quote would have to be.

“Great Music, it said, and Great Poetry would like quieten Modern Youth down and make Modern Youth more Civilized. Civilized my syphilized yarbles.”

The New Yorker ran a collection of articles related to dystopian literature over the weekend and it included a piece by Anthony Burgess discussing A Clockwork Orange. The pull quote is copied below (though the whole piece is interesting):

“What I was trying to say in ‘A Clockwork Orange’ was that it is better to be bad of one’s own free will than to be good through scientific brainwashing.”

If this was the point, then this novel was a failure. [Which may be the case in Burgess’ own mind - he is on record as saying that this was not his best work.] The book doesn’t seem to put any sort of value judgment on Alex’s whole situation outside of the prison chaplain explicitly saying that forcing people to be good does not make them good.


https://www.newyorker.com/books/doubl...

Ben wrote: "The New Yorker ran a collection of articles related to dystopian literature over the weekend and it included a piece by Anthony Burgess discussing A Clockwork Orange. The pull quote is copied below..."

Yikes. Yeah, Burgess, I think I would rather everyone be brainwashed into behaving the to go around brutalizing old people and sexually abusing little girls haha.