Victorians! discussion

Eugene Wrayburn was worried about poor Lizzie being left alone when Gaffer was arrested but it seems Lizzie is to be left alone permanently for the empty boat we were left with last week was a sign of the worst. Gaffer has died. Did you foresee this?

Meanwhile John Rokesmith/ Julius Hanford is appointed by Mr Boffin as secretary as he desired, the Boffins having understood that he didn’t wish to be a piece of furniture  They have also found the orphan the wished to adopt in place of John Harmon, the child the cared for very much, but have lost.

His grandmother Betty Higden is a self-respecting woman who is prepared to work till her last breath to keep away from the poor house, of which she seems to have a horror. But at her age, despite running a minding school, and taking in washing, she is unable to provide for her grandson, now left in her care, and realises that she must give him up for his good. I’m glad the Boffins are the ones who will be taking him in, so he won’t be deprived of any love away from his grandma. Sloppy seems to be another interesting entrant to our cast of characters, one who is likely to bring in some humour, contrasting with the more serious themes of poverty and how the city/government addresses it that the Betty Higden thread has thrown up.

Charlei Hexam is turning out to be a bit of a disappointment (something on the lines of Pip in Great Expectations)—his head is swollen with his prospects and he now begins to question his sister’s decisions—has the little “knowledge” he has acquired really qualified him to do so? Mr Headstone is showing an interest in Lizzie too, but she seems to be put off by something I him. His sister has on the other hand befriended the Doll’s dressmaker, Jenny Wren, who has difficulties of her own. Unable to walk, she can only dream of normalcy, a suitor to come perhaps. But in real life she must deal with her bad child, an alcoholic father who gets up to no good.

Meanwhile Mr Boffin has another new employee as well, Wegg is no longer only his literary man but has been put in charge of the bower while the Boffins move to their newer, more fashionable abode. But I fear, it isn’t the most sensible move hiring him since he is out to make as much money of the Boffins as he can. But Mr Rokesmith might just be a check in that direction.

Now that the Boffins have come into money, the effects have begun to be seen. So far we only had Wegg trying to get a piece of the pie, but now others too are entering the picture—the Veneerings, Podsnaps and their ilk can’t wait to make their acquaintance, while letters begging (even threatening) them to get some money out of them. John Rokesmith seems sharp enough to deal with the letters at least, but will he be able (and willing) to protect the Boffins from these leeches, and for how long?

Mr Veneering has chosen to go to parliament, and manages to use all his connections, and of course his deep pockets in interest. Mr Twemlow, Mr Podsnap, Lady Tippins—everyone uses their connections and the deed is done. But what is this going to mean?

So what did we think of this week’s chapters? The plot is moving along—a new twist to the murder investigation, the Boffins being surrounded by traps of sorts to take their wealth away, while social questions, wealth, poverty, alcoholism creep up as well.

The Characters so far (let me know If I’ve missed any)
Gaffer Hexam: who makes his living fishing out corpses from the Thames; now deceased

Lizzie: 19, his daughter, looks after others and things of their well-being over her own

Charlie: Gaffer’s son, who setting out to make his living through learning.

Mortimer Lightwood: Solicitor with very little work

Eugene Wrayburn: Lightwood’s friend; barrister with no work

Lady Tippins: who has introduced Mortimer and Eugene to the Veneerings

Mr and Mrs Veneering: Newly rich, with everything “bran new”; making their way in society

Mr and Mrs Podsnap: Rich and with some social standing

Miss Georgiana Podsnap: The Podsnapps’ daughter who couldn’t be any different; wants to be as ‘unawful’ as they are awful.

Mr Twemlow: friend of the Veneerings with connections

Nicodameus Boffin and Henrietty Boffin: who’ve come into the Harmon fortune now that John Harmon is dead

Mr Harmon: miser/made his fortune of dust; now deceased

His daughter: estranged

John Harmon: his heir; murdered?

Silas Wegg: hired by Mr Boffin believing him to be a man of letters

Riderhood: Gaffer’s old “pardner”

Miss Abbey Potterson: 60; proprietress of the Six Jolly Rodger Fellowship; she certainly knows how to deal with her customers

Bella Wifer: 19, “widow of sorts” of John Harmon

Rumty Wilfer: cherub; Bella’s father

Mrs Wilfer: Bella’s mother

Lavinia Wilfer: Bella’s sister

Mr George Sampson: Not very sharp; Miss Lavinia’s suitor?

Mr John Rokesmith/Julius Hanford: Mysterious stranger; lodger at the Wilfers’; and Mr Boffin’s man of business

Mr Venus: taxidermist; “friend” of Wegg

Mr Alfred Lammle: Pretending to be a man of property

Miss Sophronia Akershem/Mrs Lammle: His wife; Pretending to be a woman of property

Betty Higden: Washerwoman and runs a minding school; grandmother of young Johnny

Johnny: Little orphan selected by the Boffins for adoption

Sloppy: her assistant

Bradley Headstone: Charley Hexam’s schoolmaster; seems to show an interest in Lizzie Hexam

Miss Peecher: Schoolmistress in love with Headstone who doesn’t reciprocate

Miss Jenny Wren: the Doll’s dressmaker

The Bad Child: Her alcoholic father

You make an interesting comparison between Charley Hexam and Pip in Great Expectations, Mallika. I didn't like Charley's attitude towards Lizzy who made everything possible for him. I didn't like Pip. He was the least liked main character in a Dickens work that I've read so far. I hope Charley will improve on himself, for I don't want to see another Pip in Charley.

Eugene is evidently have some interest on Lizzie, although what nature is not very clear yet. At present he seems keen on her being learned.

Piyangie wrote: "You make an interesting comparison between Charley Hexam and Pip in Great Expectations, Mallika. I didn't like Charley's attitude towards Lizzy who made everything possible for him. I didn't like P..."

Same here- and that is one of the reasons that GE is my least favourite Dickens. In Charlie, I see the same shades--his expectations going to his head so much that he is beginning to question those who got him there in the first place.

Piyangie wrote: "Eugene is evidently have some interest on Lizzie, although what nature is not very clear yet. At present he seems keen on her being learned."

But it does seem to be more than a casual interest since he is going out of his way to help her.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Eugene is evidently have some interest on Lizzie, although what nature is not very clear yet. At present he seems keen on her being learned."

But it does seem to be more than a ca..."

It looks that way. :)

I'm happy to have found an ally in you, Mallika. :) Great Expectation is my least favourite Dickens too from what I have read of him. But lot of readers do love it. I always wonder what I failed to see in it.

Piyangie wrote: "I'm happy to have found an ally in you, Mallika. :) Great Expectation is my least favourite Dickens too from what I have read of him. But lot of readers do love it. I always wonder what I failed to..."

I find I can't feel the least bit of sympathy for (or interest in) any of the characters in that book--in fact most are rather off-putting.

I’m not sure what literary devise is which (simile, metaphor, other), but I love how Dickens uses his words to paint descriptions. There is so much humor here too…

For example from Ch 14: “Mortimer Lightwood stumbled in his sleep to a cab-stand, called a cab, and had entered the army and committed a capital military offence and been tried by court martial and found guilty and had arranged his affairs and been marched out to be shot, before the door banged.”(Ch 14, Book 1)

Or this description: “…very hideous church with four towers at the four corners, generally resembling some petrified monster, frightful and gigantic, on its back with its legs in the air.” I see it! (Chapter1, Book 2)

Or more serious: “The squall had come up, like a spiteful messenger before the morning; there followed in its wake a ragged tear of light which ripped the dark clouds until they showed a great grey hole of day.” (Ch 14, Book 1)

What a writer!

Jenny wrote: "I’m not sure what literary devise is which (simile, metaphor, other), but I love how Dickens uses his words to paint descriptions. There is so much humor here too…
For example from Ch 14: “Mortimer..."

I love those descriptions!

Lady Clementina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Eugene is evidently have some interest on Lizzie, although what nature is not very clear yet. At present he seems keen on her being learned."

But it does seem to be more than a ca..."

Much as I'd like to think that Eugene is good hearted, despite his carelessness, I am suspicious of his motives in helping Lizzie out with her education...

Fern wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Eugene is evidently have some interest on Lizzie, although what nature is not very clear yet. At present he seems keen on her being learned."

But it does s..."
Obviously his interest is more than casual but one can't tell the direction it will take considering the differences in their social positions.

Jenny wrote: "I’m not sure what literary devise is which (simile, metaphor, other), but I love how Dickens uses his words to paint descriptions. There is so much humor here too…
For example from Ch 14: “Mortimer..."

That he certainly is-I am also enjoying the humorous descriptions in the segment after this one.

Jenny wrote: "I’m not sure what literary devise is which (simile, metaphor, other), but I love how Dickens uses his words to paint descriptions. There is so much humor here too…
For example from Ch 14: “Mortimer..."

Dickens is so good at using metaphorical language to create atmosphere: furniture, architecture, the weather, etc. ... they become like extra characters in the story in his hands.

When Dickens gives a character the name 'Headstone' I'm immediately alerted to him being a baddie in the story. It seems Lizzie is the object of two men's interest; I hope Eugene's interest is honourable, I'm sure it is, but what is he up to? Why does he want to have her educated?

Right? So many possible motives!

True kindness, because she very much desires the education?

A way to get her trust and gratitude? That seems suspicious.

Is he trying to make her “good enough” for him? But how much would the education elevate her status? Maybe she’d be able to become a teacher?

The class & status issues are definitely important in this book.

Renee wrote: "Right? So many possible motives!

True kindness, because she very much desires the education?

A way to get her trust and gratitude? That seems suspicious.

Is he trying to make her “good enough”..."

I felt it was a class issue as well as being interested in her welfare.

For one, I think he figured out that she was interested in getting an education but wasn't doing so because of her father.

And of course, if he could at all think about marriage (pretty much impossible considering the differences in social class), education would help better others' acceptance of his decision.

Nina wrote: "When Dickens gives a character the name 'Headstone' I'm immediately alerted to him being a baddie in the story. It seems Lizzie is the object of two men's interest; I hope Eugene's interest is hono..."

That it is--He is already showing signs of this too in terms of the intensity of feeling that he seems to display as well as being quick to take offence.

Thinking more on Eugene's interest on Lizzie, I too feel that one of the reasons is to elevate her socially and make her an acceptable match for him. It looks like that Dickens had used these two (Eugene and Lizzie) to work on the theme of class issue.