Victorians! discussion

Another quite eventful segment. The Lammles seem to certainly have something up their sleeve concerning poor Georgiana, making her their friend, and then attempting to introduce her to a suitor, Mr Fledgeby who is clearly out to take some advantage—the Podsnap fortune, most likely (at least whatever falls to her share). Mr Fledgeby, at first glance, seems to be diffident, silly, and just as Mrs Lammle has described him, a booby. But we aren’t kept fooled for very long as Mr Lammle knows that there is a mercenary side to him. And when we see him in his dealings with Mr Riah, the old Jewish gentleman, who is serving as a front for Fledgeby we see that the booby is merely an act that he puts on, and he is even worse than Mr Lammle believes him to be, running a moneylending business ruthlessly but without letting on to anyone that he has something to do with it. Meanwhile we also see that Mr Riah is friends with Lizzie Hexam and Jenny Wren and allows them some respite from their daily drudgery on his terrace garden, and also supplies materials for Jenny to make her “doll’s clothes” with. [the description of Fledgeby, when we believed him to be a booby, was great fun though]

Eugene Wrayburn is by this time sharing lodgings with Mortimer Lightwood, but still clueless as to what direction his life is headed in. They receive a visit from Charlie Hexam (more and more like Pip, he seems to be getting) who tries to warn him away from Lizzie as he has found out that Eugene is paying for Lizzie’s education. Bradley Headstone who also seems to admire Lizzie and as a consequence is accompanying Charlie, adds to those threats. Charlie seems to think he more or less “owns” Lizzie because he is now the man of the house, and she must live as he decrees. I felt Charlie is once again acting too big for his boots, but in this scenario, Eugene didn’t come off very much better either even though Charlie and Mr Headstone seemed to deserve the reaction they got.

Silas Wegg is feeling like he’s been done out of what rightfully belongs to him, the fictional family he knew in “his” house, and also that his rightful place has been given to Rokesmith while he must live in the bower. His outlook mayn’t be unexpected but he seems to actually believe it. He and Mr Venus are also planning some mischief in the Bower, ready to dig out hidden treasures or better still hidden papers. Some blackmail seems to be on the agenda.

Bella decides to visit her family, which turns out not such a good idea since they are clearly envious of her fortune. But she puts her new found fortune and money to good use in her “innocent elopement” taking poor old Rumty to a nice day out, and finally getting him a much needed new suit of clothes. It was nice to see them both and it reminded me very much of an incident in another Dickens books which left me feeling as warm and pleasant—It also showed that Bella is probably not as mercenary as she thinks herself.

But there is also some unpleasant news in this segment, as Betty Higden’s grandchild, little Johnny, the child that Mrs Boffin has selected to bestow John Harmon’s name on, falls ill and succumbs to his illness, partly because of Betty’s fear that he will be taken away by the authorities, if they found out. Poor Mrs Boffin begins to feel the name John Harmon brings ill luck but wants all the same to help someone. Sloppy seems the perfect candidate, but he doesn’t wish to leave Betty Higden. Will he be able to be in both places, and not sleep at all as he declares?

So what did we think of this segment? Money was once again a central theme with the Lammles trying to use Fledgeby to get at the Podnaps fortune (so it seems); Bella deciding she must marry money; her family jealous of hers; Fledgeby himself making money by unscrupulous methods and putting all of the blame on Mr Riah; and Mr Wegg and Venus too trying to make some for themselves by no less scrupulous methods even if ones different from Fledgeby. But family, relationships, love for children also stand out.

The Characters so far (let me know If I’ve missed any)

Gaffer Hexam: who makes his living fishing out corpses from the Thames

Lizzie: 19, his daughter, looks after others and things of their well-being over her own

Charlie: Gaffer’s son, who setting out to make his living through learning.

Mortimer Lightwood: Solicitor with very little work

Eugene Wrayburn: Lightwood’s friend; barrister with no work

Lady Tippins: who has introduced Mortimer and Eugene to the Veneerings

Mr and Mrs Veneering: Newly rich, with everything “bran new”; making their way in society

Mr and Mrs Podsnap: Rich and with some social standing

Miss Georgiana Podsnap: The Podsnapps’ daughter who couldn’t be any different; wants to be as ‘unawful’ as they are awful.

Mr Twemlow: friend of the Veneerings with connections

Nicodameus Boffin and Henrietty Boffin: who’ve come into the Harmon fortune now that John Harmon is dead

Mr Harmon: miser/made his fortune of dust; now deceased

His daughter: estranged

John Harmon: his heir; murdered?

Silas Wegg: hired by Mr Boffin believing him to be a man of letters

Riderhood: Gaffer’s old “pardner”

Miss Abbey Potterson: 60; proprietress of the Six Jolly Rodger Fellowship; she certainly knows how to deal with her customers

Bella Wilfer: 19, “widow of sorts” of John Harmon

Rumty Wilfer: cherub; Bella’s father

Mrs Wilfer: Bella’s mother

Lavinia Wilfer: Bella’s sister

Mr George Sampson: Not very sharp; Miss Lavinia’s suitor?

Mr John Rokesmith/Julius Hanford: Mysterious stranger; lodger at the Wilfers’; and Mr Boffin’s man of business; admires Bella

Mr Venus: taxidermist; “friend” of Wegg

Mr Alfred Lammle: Pretending to be a man of property

Miss Sophronia Akershem/Mrs Lammle: His wife; Pretending to be a woman of property

Mr Fledgeby: possible suitor for Georgiana Podsnap; seems to have two entirely different personalities

Betty Higden: Washerwoman and runs a minding school; grandmother of young Johnny

Johnny: Little orphan selected by the Boffins for adoption
Sloppy: her assistant

Bradley Headstone: Charley Hexam’s schoolmaster; seems to show an interest in Lizzie Hexam

Miss Peecher: Schoolmistress in love with Headstone who doesn’t reciprocate

Miss Jenny Wren: the Doll’s dressmaker

The Bad Child: Her alcoholic father

Mr Riah: Kind hearted old Jewish man who serves as a “front” for Mr Fledgby

I also felt that money plays a significant part in this segment. We learn about the scheming Lammles. They are preying on an innocent victim (Georgiana Podsnap) so that they could gain pecuniary advantage by making her a match. I'm yet to understand the full character of Fledgeby, but from what I read of him so far, he is not very likable. Poor Georgiana will gain nothing but misery through such a match.

Charley is becoming too much for his own good. And I really don't like that schoolmaster of his. His manner and behaviour is utterly contradictory for a learned man.

Eugene on the other hand is as confused as ever. His careless manner of existence and wasteful life style is really affecting his faculties capacity for rational thought. He consciously or unconsciously care for Lizzie. It is very obvious by the contemptuous manner in which he behaves towards Charley and his schoolmaster. Such behaviour don't credit Eugene, but his indignation and defiance on behalf of Lizzie is touching.

I too want to believe Bella is not mercenary minded. Of course she aspires for a rich match, but it seems it is not based on a selfish motive of her being rich and comfortable and a proper lady. She obviously is interested in being able to help her family.

Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor. What a way to reward Boffin for his kindness. I hope Mr. Boffin will not have to pay a price for his good heart. And I have a feeling that Mr. Rokesmith sees Silas for who he truly is. Hopefully he can save dear Boffin. :)

Piyangie wrote: "I also felt that money plays a significant part in this segment. We learn about the scheming Lammles. They are preying on an innocent victim (Georgiana Podsnap) so that they could gain pecuniary ad..."

So true--and Fledgeby is a real scoundrel-much worse than the Lammles even as we can see from his dealings with Mr Riah

Piyangie wrote: "Charley is becoming too much for his own good. And I really don't like that schoolmaster of his. His manner and behaviour is utterly contradictory for a learned man.

Eugene on the other hand is a..."

Headstone has studied and pulled himself away from his origins much like Charley is attempting to do. But as a consequence, his behaviour is no better than Charley's even though he is quite a few years his senior. He is touchy about the treatment he receives from his social betters understandably but unfortunately this doesn;t justify his reaction. Towards Eugene he seems to also feel jealousy since he also has interest in Lizzie

Piyangie wrote: "I too want to believe Bella is not mercenary minded. Of course she aspires for a rich match, but it seems it is not based on a selfish motive of her being rich and comfortable and a proper lady. Sh..."

She is kind of in teh middle just now-she has a kind side as we saw from what she did for Rumty but still attaches more value to money than is deserved.

Piyangie wrote: "Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor.

I wonder what Wegg will find in the old house/ash hill. For someone who had nothing before Boffins, he has no gratitude. He's the other side of the coin to Mrs. Higden.

Jenny wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor.

I wonder what Wegg will find in the old house/ash hill. For someone who had nothing before Boffins, he ..."

True-He is hoping to find something to its advantage, and from his thoughts, it seems something that would allow for blackmail will be more welcome than even money/valuables.

Jenny wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor.

I wonder what Wegg will find in the old house/ash hill. For someone who had nothing before Boffins, he ..."

I can't picture what the dust hills look like, they're clearly very big, but they sound too substantial to be just made of dust...anybody know?

Piyangie wrote: "I too want to believe Bella is not mercenary minded. Of course she aspires for a rich match, but it seems it is not based on a selfish motive of her being rich and comfortable and a proper lady. Sh..."

I liked the scene with Bella and her old dad, it showed a different side to her.

Little Johnny's death was so sad. I read somewhere that in 1840, 1 in 6 children died in their first year.

Nina wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor.

I wonder what Wegg will find in the old house/ash hill. For someone who had nothing befor..."

Just looked them up. Some seem to be piles of garbage rather than actual dust. (the second link is dickens specific)

Take a look here: https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/...

https://dickensourmutualfriend.wordpr...

Nina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I too want to believe Bella is not mercenary minded. Of course she aspires for a rich match, but it seems it is not based on a selfish motive of her being rich and comfortable and ..."

That was one of my favourites too.

Nina wrote: "Little Johnny's death was so sad. I read somewhere that in 1840, 1 in 6 children died in their first year."

I felt bad that Betty unwittingly may have caused this due to her fear of the Poor law and the workhouse.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Nina wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Silas Wegg is a scoundrel! He is plotting how to back bite his benefactor.

I wonder what Wegg will find in the old house/ash hill. For someone who had ..."

Thank you for the links. I had somehow imagined the dust heaps to be quite small, but in fact they were huge! They were more like the modern rubbish dumps, I think.

Thank you for the link, Lady Clementina! What a fascinating article on the dust mounds, and great to see a picture of it.

I've been thinking that the dust is metaphorical in some way, and wondering what Dickens is getting at. I liked this part of a quote from the article:
"the mythical power of dust to revive [...] provides Dickens with the opposing forces of dust and water as redemptive versus destructive forces which structure the novel"

Now I see the significance of the story opening with the river (out of which dead bodies are taken), the dust mound, then bones (Venus) - 3 parts of the human body: dust, water and bones. I think Dickens is writing about death and resurrection "redemptive versus destructive forces", amongst other themes!

Nina wrote: " I think Dickens is writing about death and resurrection "redemptive versus destructive forces"..."

That makes a lot of sense--the John Harmon story is pretty much those themes--death and resurrection (albeit in a different avatar). Redemption and Destruction in some senses come from attitudes towards money for most characters, though.

I thought I would be done by now. I hope to be done soon.

Mahalo,
RM
🇺🇸🐾

RM(Alwaysdaddygirl) wrote: "I thought I would be done by now. I hope to be done soon.

Mahalo,
RM
🇺🇸🐾"
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