Reading the Detectives discussion

Our April group read is: Duplicate Death, published in 1951.

London is the scene for a card party given by a social-climbing hostess. Suddenly, the seemingly civilized game of Duplicate Bridge is interrupted by a double murder, both victims murdered by the same sinister method, strangled with picture wire. The crimes seem identical, but were they carried out by the same hand? And, what was the connection between the first, a mysterious man of the world, and the second, an ambitious widow? Inspector Hemingway has his work cut out for him, and the odds of solving this crime are stacked up against him.

Things become even more complicated when Miss Beulah Birtley, the fiancée of the inspector's young friend Timothy Kane, becomes Hemingway's prime suspect. Kane is determined to prove the lady's innocence-but when he begins digging into her past, he finds it's more than a little bit shady... That morning, Miss Beulah bought the weapon. Before supper, she had spit out her hatred for the victim in poisonous--and public--words. And at the party, she was the last to see him alive. They found him slumped in a chair-his handsome head lolling forward on his well-cut dinner jacket--his florid face hideously distorted. A horrible death, observed the Inspector. But very simple for a young lady like Beulah to arrange... Mrs. Haddington, the second victim, is found strangled in the exact same spot where one of her daughter's many suitors had also been strangled. Fortunately, the first-rate detective doesn’t miss a trick.

According to Fantastic Fiction, this is the order of Heyer's crime novels:

Inspector Hannasyde
1. Death in the Stocks (1935)
aka Merely Murder
2. Behold, Here's Poison (1936)
3. They Found Him Dead (1937)
4. A Blunt Instrument (1938)

Inspector Hemingway
1. No Wind of Blame (1939)
2. Envious Casca (1941)
aka A Christmas Party
3. Duplicate Death (1951)
4. Detection Unlimited (1953)

Two of the characters in this novel, Stephen and Timothy Hart, appeared in 'They Found Him Dead,'

Please do not post spoilers in this thread.

I'm just starting this one and looking forward to our discussion as I've enjoyed the Heyer mysteries that I've read previously.

I haven't read They Found Him Dead, where two of the characters previously appeared, so am hoping that won't be a problem! Who else is reading this?

I am about to re-read it. Can't say I remember much from my earlier read but hope either it will all come back to me or it is just like an exciting new book.

I enjoyed this, but I did wish I had read it in the correct order. I need to go back and read all of Heyer's mysteries in order, as I do enjoy them.

I'm interested to see how much there is about the immediate post-war setting near the start of this book - the rationing, the fact that Stephen lost a leg in the war, a mention of Dunkirk. The characters still feel slightly Regency to me, as they tend to in Heyer even when she isn't setting her stories in that period, so it's an odd combination.

I was staggered by how big Mrs Haddington's house is. She's meant to be middle-class but it's described, in detail, as having two or three flours and then two more for servants. This seems very large for a middle-class woman (even a widow with unknown sources of funds) post-War and also totally unnecessary just for her and her daughter.

I can't remember where the house is in London which might give me a better picture of its style.

Judy wrote: "I'm interested to see how much there is about the immediate post-war setting near the start of this book - the rationing, the fact that Stephen lost a leg in the war, a mention of Dunkirk. The char..."

Are the names different in US and UK (or other) editions? Stephen is Jim Kane in my version.

Sorry, Annabel, it is Jim, not Stephen! The name slipped my mind this morning and I checked it on Amazon, but looked at a page which had the name wrong!

I'm around half way through now and it has got more interesting for me. I agree with Susan though, it would have been interesting to have seen Timothy at 14 to compare him to this age.

I'm about a third of the way through now and finding the portrayal of gay character Sydney Butterwick pretty uncomfortable so far - very stereotyped, as with a lot of GA books.

I'm slightly confused as to why Jim Kane and Timothy Harte have different surnames, in my edition anyway (though Timothy's surname is given as Kane in the Goodreads blurb Susan posted above). Have I missed something and are they half-brothers? Possibly this is explained in the earlier book, or maybe all will become clear later!

Answering my own question ... I've just come across a mention of Jim and Tim being half-brothers.

I've nearly finished now but I have found the " Scottish banter" annoying. It makes the police seem more human but I don't understand the words, losing the comedy for me.

Yes, all the Gaelic words are a puzzle to me too.

I am also annoyed by the Scottish banter as I don't understand the language. On the other hand, I am enjoying the endless rambling by two minor characters, the seamstress and the aunt.

Annabel wrote: "I was staggered by how big Mrs Haddington's house is. She's meant to be middle-class but it's described, in detail, as having two or three flours and then two more for servants. This seems very large for a middle-class woman (even a widow with unknown sources of funds) post-War and also totally unnecessary just for her and her daughter..."

It's likely to be a narrow townhouse with only a few rooms on each floor. However, Mrs Haddington is aping a higher class than she actually is, so she probably thinks that a big house is giving the impression of more money than she actually has. I don't recall where it's located - but Beulah has to go to and from her own flat by the Underground, doesn't she? I vaguely remember it's in the West End somewhere.

Housing in London was in short supply immediately post-War due to the Blitz, but I don't think prices were stupidly high - the average cost of a house in London in 1952 (according to a cursory web search) was £2650.

Sandy wrote: "I am also annoyed by the Scottish banter as I don't understand the language. On the other hand, I am enjoying the endless rambling by two minor characters, the seamstress and the aunt."

Yes , Mrs Spennymoor (?) was really good.

As usual, most of the character names are taken from UK place names. Seaton Carew is on the North Sea coast near Hartlepool. If she'd wanted to make him more 'aristocratic' she could have chosen Seaton Delaval, a stately home, north of Newcastle, although Seaton Sluice might have been more appropriate for such a character. Seaton is farmstead by the sea, so there are several in the area.

It was interesting that Beulah Birtley was just the characters middle names. You wouldn't be able to hide under your middle names in the age of google, would you?

Rosina wrote: "As usual, most of the character names are taken from UK place names. Seaton Carew is on the North Sea coast near Hartlepool ..."

That's very interesting, Rosina, thanks! I would never have picked up on this.

I've read two thirds of this now and must admit I'm not enjoying it as much as the other Heyers I've read. There seems to be more of a sour note, somehow, maybe because of the post-war setting in the world of rationing and shortages.

Judy wrote: "I've read two thirds of this now and must admit I'm not enjoying it as much as the other Heyers I've read. There seems to be more of a sour note, somehow, maybe because of the post-war setting in t..."

What I found most disturbing was the undisguised classism - the 'she must be OK because she's from a good family' discussion about Beulah, and Mrs Kane, and about the other characters. It even seems to play its part in the solution (although I wouldn't give any of the guests at the bridge party a character reference - all so terribly louche ...)

The police homophobia was also blatant, of course, but par for its time (both as writing and as setting). As someone not affected, I find it less annoying than the more recent trend of writing books set in less-liberal times, and having all the good characters express modern woke views, while what would have been the view of the average person is used as a marker for villainy.

Emma wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I was staggered by how big Mrs Haddington's house is. She's meant to be middle-class but it's described, in detail, as having two or three flours and then two more for servants. Thi..."

I was delighted to find Beulah changing at Earl's Court, having done so myself the day before. I wonder how much the Underground has changed since then. I like thinking of her standing there, perhaps waiting for a Circle Line train like I was, and daydreaming of Timothy.

Rosina wrote: "Judy wrote: "I've read two thirds of this now and must admit I'm not enjoying it as much as the other Heyers I've read. There seems to be more of a sour note, somehow, maybe because of the post-war..."

I do agree with this one. I'm sure it's well-meant but it's irritating when period-set novels written now have heroes and heroines with implausibly progressive and compassionate views on everything. I'd even go so far as to say that the emphasis on Bunter and his wife's lives in the new 'Lord Peter' mysteries grate on me somewhat. I'm sure I'm not alone in having read the original Peter Wimsey books as escapism and enjoying imagining what it would be like to be a member of the aristocracy collecting first editions and not ever having to worry about money.

That said, in rereading both Death In The Stocks and DD, I'm even more envious of the lifestyle of the young upper-class male lawyer, who apparently has the most wonderful time with his 'chambers' in central London where he can entertain people to dine, and seemingly able to spend all his time running around with the heroine without it affecting his income.

Annabel wrote: "Rosina wrote: "Judy wrote: "I've read two thirds of this now and must admit I'm not enjoying it as much as the other Heyers I've read. There seems to be more of a sour note, somehow, maybe because ..."

There was mention of the young lawyer not turning down work, but he didn't really seem to need it much, did he?

Susan wrote: "There was mention of the young lawyer not turning down work, but he didn't really seem to need it much, did he? ..."

I think he came from another "good family" so that he really didn't need to worry about mundane things like work too much! :)

I am reading a Georgette Heyer novel after a long time. Even if the novel belongs to her later stage, when she had lost whatever interest she once had in writing detective fiction, the opening with the description of the receiving and reading of the letters from the sons shows that she is one of the most readable writers from the GA years.

This for example is in sharp contrast to Christina Brand and even Sayers and Allingham who at times sound quite dated.

Heyer also has an acerbic wit both in her descriptions and her dialogue. This at times can be quite cruel. Look at her description of Cynthia ‘An expensive finishing-school, while adding very little to her mental attainments, had taught her to move with more grace than was often to be seen amongst her contemporaries; she was a good dancer; she skated well; played a moderate game of tennis; and had a good enough seat on a horse to show to advantage on the Row, if not in the hunting-field…Those who disliked her said that she was wholly devoid of intellect, but this was unjust. Whenever she had a few minutes to spare between her various engagements she would turn over the pages of society journals, even reading the captions under the pictures; and she never entered her bedroom without turning on the radio.’
Or ‘ 'Oh, Mummy, don't be so silly! What on earth else was there to do? Sit at home, and read a book?'
Mrs Haddington appeared to feel the force of this argument, for she said nothing for a moment or two.’

Or that Mrs Haddington had such an artificial smile that she even ended up smiling at servants!

Sometimes, of course, it is fun to see how language develops. I cannot imagine anybody today using ‘Goop’ as a term of endearment or that punk only means losers.

The description of Sydney Butterwick grates but how can it be different? But it is interesting that despite his mannerisms he is still a part of that society. What puzzles me is the attitude of this group of people towards Dan Seaton-Carew. Is he having a sexual relationship with Sydney and if so how come nobody is having a problem with him? Cynthia is still attracted to him.

One thing that struck me as strange was the police using the room where the murder took place as the room to hold interviews and Belulah is the only one who shows a touch of delicacy.

I could not understand the reference to Lady Nesta as ‘restless, unsteady type, very Athenian.’ As opposed to Spartan?

The Gaelic is, I guess, an attempt to show that Grant is insubordinate to Hemingway in the same way that Hemingway is to his Superintendent that is affectionately.

Bicky wrote: "I am reading a Georgette Heyer novel after a long time. Even if the novel belongs to her later stage, when she had lost whatever interest she once had in writing detective fiction, the opening with..."

I agree wholeheartedly about Heyer's wit. I have giggled through all her Regency romances and return to them regularly.

Perhaps the Athenian reference is to the god. She is known for guile as well as wisdom and 'restless, unsteady' may apply. I hope someone else has a better explanation.

Bicky wrote: "I am reading a Georgette Heyer novel after a long time. Even if the novel belongs to her later stage, when she had lost whatever interest she once had in writing detective fiction, the opening with..."

You have summed up all the points I wanted to make so beautifully that I will not add to them except to say that I think Heyer may have been basing the character of Lady Nest on the real character of Caro Lamb of whom, this would be a fairly accurate description, and also of her husband, being similar to Caro's husband, William (Lord Melbourne). Cynical, highly successful and a man of affairs, but resigned and accepting where his wife was concerned. Caro at the time of the Regency, where all things Greek were so beloved would have been called an Athenian beauty. Very tall and willowy and so thin she was described as ethereal and with a classic profile. She was also a very restless, unstable, nervy type. Lady Caro was also well known for forming friendships with women of dubious reputation.

Thanks Jemina for clearing that up.

Sandy wrote: "I agree wholeheartedly about Heyer's wit. I have giggled through all her Regency romances and return to them regularly.
."

I am going to read a few of her Regency romances. Any suggestions?

Good question, Bicky - I was also wondering which are the best of her Regency romances? I've only read a few so far.

If you enjoy humor most people agree with me on choosing from ‘The Grand Sophy’ ‘Frederica’ or ‘The Talisman Ring’ as a good place to start. The last one also has a subplot murder mystery in it. The Grand Sophy is my absolute favorite. ´Faro’s Daughter’ ‘The Unknown Ajax’ -so funny and ‘the Reluctant Widow’ are also favorites of mine. The last also centres around a spy/murder plot and in my opinion does an awesome job of covering the two genres historical romantic fiction and murder mystery in one nice little plot. None of Heyer’s books are sappy or overly romantic or angsty. There is always a healthy dose of humour and dry wit and she loves to poke fun at her characters, even the main ones at times. She is known for being quite authentic and historically accurate, especially with her Regency set novels.

Thanks for the suggestions, Jemima. I'm intrigued by The Reluctant Widow also including a mystery.

Yes, Jemima I too am thankful.

Let us know what you think

Cotillion is another fun and funny Georgette Heyer novel; if you want a bit of mystery/adventure thrown in, two great books are The Toll-Gate and The Talisman Ring. Both have the wit and sparkling dialogue you’d expect in a Heyer, as well.

Starting with Grand Sophy and The Talisman Ring.

When I was young, I felt that it was a tragedy that Heyer had written so few detective novels while wasting her time on romances. When I shared this view with some friends, they vigorously disagreed. Of course, it was not a coincidence that they voraciously consumed Mills & Boon while I did the same with westerns. Once, I spent a couple of hours reading the labels on medicine bottles rather than read the Mills & Boon lying around. Reflecting now, I am astonished by the similarities between them. Both genres are totally formulaic, with the plot obvious from the beginning right until the happy ever after. The only difference is the point of view. Of course, all of us read mystery fiction – whether Nancy Drew or the Hardy Boys or their more adult versions. All of us also read Enid Blyton. In fact, I reread The Mallory Towers and St. Claire’s books so often that, years later, I was unable to appreciate Harry Potter. Curiously (or not), P.G. Wodehouse fans were mostly male.

Though romance remains a field with very few male readers or writers (I guess), I am not sure which genre today is dominated by males whether as readers or writers. Perhaps techno-thrillers like Clancy but I do not read them because, not being North American or even European or Australian etc., I find the super patriotism quite difficult to swallow.

I will be curious to see what you think of Heyer’s historical romances (compared to her mysteries).

Even though I am an American, I agree with you about techno-thrillers - not at all my cup of tea. And I must confess, I very much enjoy Wodehouse, and keep a stash of Jeeves and Wooster handy for an instant pick-me-up!

I vote for Wodehouse too, but it was something I didn’t appreciate until I was in my 30s. Agree about Mallory Towers but as I am an absolute mad Harry Potter fan, I disagree there. The Half Blood Prince is the finest piece of Teen/YA writing I have ever read in my opinion. I do enjoy the occasional Mills and Boon type novel when I am also in the mood for fairy floss, popcorn and a feel good movie too. If they’re not available a fluffy romance is pure escapism, although I require them to be well structured and written with good characters. I am fussy therefore about the authors. Some of the most prolific authors from the 80s and 90s of romances have gone into make best seller lists in a number of other genres including mystery and suspense, but they learned their trade and cut their teeth on writing light romantic fiction. Not a bad way to learn a difficult trade with a largely uncritical audience.

Also vote for Cotillion although it might be hard to recognize the hero if you are not used to Heyer’s tendency to poke fun at all of her characters from time to time. Another one I loved more the older I got and definitely the most Wodehousian of the lot.

Having found some of Heyer's Regency romances a bit annoyingly fluffy, I am very tempted by The Reluctant Widow and The Talisman Ring described above so I might give them a go. I do like a murder plot mixed in with other things, as with Dornford Yates' The House That Berry Built.

On Heyer never being angsty, I would throw in a word of warning here for Penhallow. I picked it up in a secondhand bookshop assuming it was as light-hearted as everything else she's written only to find myself with a gloomy rural tragedy on my hands. It felt very much like the sort of thing Cold Comfort Farm was written to make fun of but it was done in deadly earnest and such gloom that I finished the book thoroughly disheartened. Hated it.

Bicky wrote: "When I was young, I felt that it was a tragedy that Heyer had written so few detective novels while wasting her time on romances. When I shared this view with some friends, they vigorously disagree..."

This issue about which genders read which genres is a fascinating one to me. As a teenage girl, I loved Biggles, the Hardy Boys, the Three Investigators etc and I moved on to Buchan, Fleming, Ambler etc before discovering, to my surprise, that I wasn't 'supposed' to like these. Like you, I find the techy, hardline Clancy-type modern thrillers difficult to digest but equally I think men are missing a trick if they won't read cosy crime. (Clearly some will.)

Jemima wrote: "Also vote for Cotillion although it might be hard to recognize the hero if you are not used to Heyer’s tendency to poke fun at all of her characters from time to time. Another one I loved more the ..."

Very true! Maybe that’s why I like it, too!

Jemima wrote: "I vote for Wodehouse too, but it was something I didn’t appreciate until I was in my 30s. Agree about Mallory Towers but as I am an absolute mad Harry Potter fan, I disagree there. The Half Blood P..."

I absolutely agree about the occasional Mills and Boon fairy floss (they’re published as Harlequin romances here, or at least used to be when my aunts collected them back in the 1970s and 80s).

That’s when I was introduced to Betty Neels’ squeaky clean, repetitive, but sweet and (I thought) well written romances. I keep a supply of used copies on hand for tough times - they’re no end of reliable, upbeat escapism when you need it. During my mom’s last illness, she read and reread them, gave her pleasure and comfort, what more can you ask?

Annabel wrote: "Having found some of Heyer's Regency romances a bit annoyingly fluffy, I am very tempted by The Reluctant Widow and The Talisman Ring described above so I might give them a go. I do like a murder p..."

Interesting you mention Penhallow, a lot of her fans felt that way I think, but I just read her biography with the Heyer group and apparently she felt that plot just came to her, and she couldn’t shake it, felt she had to write it. I don’t think I’ve ever read that one...

I do hope you like The Talisman Ring and/or The Reluctant Widow or even The Toll-Gate, they’ve got more than just a London social setting and romance. They have humor and adventure, too!

Susan in NC wrote: "I very much enjoy Wodehouse, and keep a stash of Jeeves and Wooster handy for an instant pick-me-up! "

For me today, the great thing about Wodehouse is that even a page is enough to change the mood but at times I cannot take in more than a page or so.

I've read Penhallow only once, whereas I've re-read most of Heyer's detective novels several times. It is bleak, and the crime doesn't even get properly resolved at the end, so it doesn't really adhere to the rules of crime fiction, which is maybe why people dislike it. Also, almost none of the characters are very sympathetic. That said, I find it very memorable.

Jemima wrote: "Also vote for Cotillion although it might be hard to recognize the hero if you are not used to Heyer’s tendency to poke fun at all of her characters from time to time. Another one I loved more the ..."

Adding Cotillion to my list.

Annabel wrote: "I do like a murder plot mixed in with other things, as with Dornford Yates' The House That Berry Built.."

I did not know this author, so good to know.