SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

What did you think? Was it exactly the story you hoped it would be? Did the narrative structure work for you?

I went into this thinking that based on the summary it would be up my alley, but I was wrong. This easily makes it among my top "lighter" reads, and I'll be reading the sequel shortly. I thoroughly loved it.

The narrative structure had me torn, depending on the chapter. In most though, I found that it added to my reading - rather than being jarring and detracting from it. Oftentimes, the bard's perspective section would dangle a new bit of plot or twist the existing one a small amount. You knew that the following section with Tea's perspective would shed some light on it (or perhaps misdirect you!) and you would be enticed to read on to uncover it.

The theme and plot were somewhat standard-ish fantasy I thought. Coming of age-ish, main character becomes obscenely powerful by luck/birth, is shunned for similar reasons, etc. The quality in which it was done was why it added to my enjoyment of the story. Also, let's be honest, who doesn't love the idea of Death Magic!

One thing that made me quite happy was nearer to the beginning with the structure of the writing. It was quite beautiful and I loved how artful it was. Unfortunately, after the first few chapters it seemed to taper a bit. The writing afterwards was merely good writing, rather than superb.

For me, this was the perfect blend of a guilty-pleasure-junk-food and something higher quality with refinement.

Hopefully others enjoyed this as much as myself!

Overall I enjoyed this book. The writing style was melodic and evocative. I thought the narrative structure was interesting and useful.

My favorite thing about this book was the deeper look into the stigma of death/blood magic. A lot of other stories just use "death magic = bad" as a trope without showing any nuance. This story definitely gave the magic usage some nuance.

The use of the bard as a narrator was done sparingly enough that it did not jar me. I thought that the interactions were useful ways to tie chapters together and tie everything together with the present day perspective of the bard.

What I liked the least was that the story had two timelines that didn't meet in the end. We still do not know how things ended up with Tea summoning all the deva. In addition, there was no real progression towards a climax. Maybe Michael Bay and other action stories have dulled me into wanting some action. Because of these two things, it felt like this novel doesn't stand on it's own.

Also, the clothing description was evocative in the first chapter. It was annoying every chapter after that.

The plot didn't have enough tension. Many problems were resolved quickly instead of lingering to provide tension. Look at the uncontrolled necromancy incident in the Falling Leaf. Tea is in trouble now, right? No, in fact she gets a bump up the ladder. What could have caused it? It was a seeking stone. The undead caused problems, right? Not really: a mere nuisance and a revelation of a past affair that everyone takes in stride. This event was clearly one of the peaks, and so much potential was wasted by having the main character come out on top, through no particular virtue or extraordinary effort.

How about raising your dead brother? That has to be a big deal, right? Not so much. He looks normal, doesn't smell rotten, has a fully working brain, and he has some cool new powers. He needs a little blood to heal, but that's optional. Boring, when it had potential to be interesting. Writers, don't make life easy for your main characters!

There are some attempts at social commentary, but they don't have much depth. Hey, we helped out the gay/TG guy! Yay! Contrast that with The Winternight Trilogy and the sustained focus on what it was like to be a girl or a woman in medieval Russia. Or take The Hunger Games and the ways that entertainment and competition are used to maintain the control of a wealthy elite. Not that a novel has to have social commentary, but its presence in The Bone Witch seemed to be just another box checked off a list (new magic system, magic school, school bully, etc.).

The second narrative from the future was OK, but I think it should have been scaled back. It wasn't interesting enough to get as much time as it did.

I agree with you, Chris. And I kept expecting segments following the bard's tale to pick up with parts of the story that dealt with where they were presently, but that didn't really happen until the last 5% or so, and that was fed to us more as a cliffhanger than a plot point, in my opinion.

This was... fine? It was enjoyable enough at first, but then I started to get annoyed by the YA-ness, but I was expecting that. The failure of the two timelines to come together is a big problem, it's like this book was all preamble, without really telling the main story.
I will be curious to see what people who go on to read the next two in the series think.

What was the point when you either knew you were in for a treat or going to be disappointed?

For me, I think shortly after the rules changed for what heart stones did, I became concerned.

Allison wrote: "What was the point when you either knew you were in for a treat or going to be disappointed?

I thought I was in for a treat after the first two chapters. They were very intriguing and descriptive. So much so that I remain intrigued even though the rest of the book meandered haphazardly for the remaining chapters.

I'm actually going to start The Heart Forger in a few days in an attempt to get the resolution that I didn't find at the end of The Bone Witch. Wish me luck ;)

Report back, Paul!!

I loved this book! Read it quite awhile ago, then reread it last year along with Heart Forger.

I feel that this series gets better as you go. I can't wait to read the last book to find out what the resolution is. So much is learned in the 2nd book.

I love the writing style, and just the overall darkness of it. Its YA, so it doesn't go too far, but I still love it! And its such a cool world.

I rated the first book 4.5 stars, and the 2nd book a solid 5 stars.

Allison wrote: "Report back, Paul!!"

Okay, The Heart Forger was way better. It provided resolution for the first book while also resolving itself pretty well. I highly recommend treating The Bone Witch and The Heart Forger as just one book.

The one thing that you may not like was that Rin Chupeco introduced another dues ex machina producing tool towards the end of the 1st act. I think it was handled generally well, but it does make the magic system less defined.

Awesome, thank you!

Paul / Jenny thanks for confirming that the 2nd books raps things up so to speak.

I finished this one a few days ago and over all liked it. I agree it's more of a backstory and world / rule defining. I didn't mind the dual narrative. it easily defined the past and present.

in my mind the book ended just when the good stuff was going to start. that said, wait did happen in the book was enough to keep me interested and wanting to know what was going to happen next. that's a good way to get someone to read the second book ;).

that's what I'm going to do now so she must have done a lot of things right.

Because it was brought up in the other thread, what do you think about the heart's glass and how that was used?

Chris wrote: "The plot didn't have enough tension. Many problems were resolved quickly instead of lingering to provide tension. ."

I fully agree, the book has interesting ideas and is quite well written, but is a bit bland. I also think is could be shorter and some stuff should have been repeated several times. Also mystery angle fell flat on its face, for the pre-discovery part was not exactly exiting. At lest for me

Allison wrote: "Because it was brought up in the other thread, what do you think about the heart's glass and how that was used?"

I think it is a neat idea and quite well executed. I liked quotes like: "Having a heart was a responsibility; young children were heartless creatures anyway—or so said Mrs. Drury, who lived three cottages away and was the acknowledged village busybody. But I never believed that grown-ups took great care of their hearts either, because my older sister Daisy, seventeen and the loveliest of us Pahlavis, was constantly losing hers."

At the same time it is strange that people are unaware that they can be controlled via hearts and gave it away. After all the heartglass is started as a nobility-controlling tool

Oleksandr wrote: "Allison wrote: "Because it was brought up in the other thread, what do you think about the heart's glass and how that was used?"

I think it is a neat idea and quite well executed. I liked quotes l..."

Yeah, I thought it was a really neat idea! I was a bit confused because sometimes the heart would replenish and sometimes it was used against you? Is this an unrequited love thing or something else, do you think (or know! I may have missed something in the text.)

The hearts glass did seem to have a lot of "rules" that kept conflicting....

Hearts glass traditionally exchanged as show of love for some reason, but fades and returns if fallen out of love. Exception to this is silver hearts glass which will not return, and dimishes ones power if given away (why ever give it away then?). Then there's some sort of special rule with black hearts glass.

Jay wrote: "The hearts glass did seem to have a lot of "rules" that kept conflicting....

Hearts glass traditionally exchanged as show of love for some reason, but fades and returns if fallen out of love. Exception to this is silver hearts glass which will not return, and dimishes ones power if given away (why ever give it away then?). Then there's some sort of special rule with black hearts glass."

I didn't personally think the rules were conflicting. I just thought it was a bit of a cope out to say "these are the heart glass rules. Oh, but the rules are different for silver ones. Oh, also the protagonist is ever more specialer."

I enjoyed this book overall - 3 stars on goodreads, but bumped up to 3.5 mentally for the end, because I'm definitely hooked and want to continue the series.

I do sort of find myself more interesting in the framing story than I am in the backstory, and sometimes find myself impatient to get to what I feel like is the "real" story - but I'm enjoying the details and geisha-like aspects of the backstory enough to not let that frustration and impatience ruin the rest of the story for me.

I do sort of wish this was a duology instead of a trilogy, though, but I'm willing to be in it for the long haul, as it were.

***

As to the Heartsglass, I found them an interesting if somewhat odd conceit. I'm glad they explained a bit where the concept came from, because it seems like a weird thing for a society to suddenly start doing.

I didn't find the rules contradictory, really, though it was interesting how the rules were different for different people. It does make sense, though, since the hearts are tied into the magic that people use, and the magic differs.

I was a little unclear as to whether Lady Mykaela's glass didn't replenish because of the silver aspect, or because of unrequited love. It seemed like Daisy would give away her heart, but then it would replenish because she moved on, and it seemed to me that Mykaela never really moved on, and that was the bigger difference, not just that it was because hers was silver. I think it sort of depends on how much investment you put into the heart and the relationship. Like, someone said to Tea about how her parents heartsglass proved their love and fidelity to each other.

The oddest thing about the whole system was the way you could build a fake one with other people's memories.

***

And I have to say, I never guessed that the servant girl would end up being one of the Faceless.

I think this one may not be for me. I'm willing to accept a lot from YA, an uber powerful yet still world weary 17 year old barely gets in. Add in the line "I've only ever loved two people, I met them both that day" and I'm done. GIRL, YOU ARE 17. "Only over loved...."

I'm afraid my eyes rolled out of head.

I kept going, but I'm only 19% done and feeling weary at the thought of wading through more.

In addition to not having time for a world weary 17 year old, who's only (only) loved two men, I'm having difficulty buying the world building. It's lacking, and I'm not loving the rest of the book enough to over look that.

Plus, comparisons to Abhorsen are inevitable and it's suffering for that comparison.

Melani wrote: "I think this one may not be for me. I'm willing to accept a lot from YA, an uber powerful yet still world weary 17 year old barely gets in. Add in the line "I've only ever loved two people, I met t..."

I know I gave this 5*, but I can definitely understand your points here. It'd be very easy to be assaulted by the far-fetched nature of things while reading.

I now have this delightful image of someone taking forever reading this book while their eyes constantly roll around every few paragraphs, though! :P

If you're referring to the series by Garth Nix, I hadn't heard of that one. I'll have to add it to the list.

I agree with Melanie! That line about only ever having loved 2 men jumped out at me too! I find myself floundering and unengaged.

Sabriel is one of my favourites!

Jay wrote: "I now have this delightful image of someone taking forever reading this book while their eyes constantly roll around every few paragraphs, though!.."

Well.... it's not NOT an accurate picture of what was happening. I did decide to just DNF this one, because the thought of spending my precious lunch time with it was not appealing.

And yes, I was talking about Garth Nix's series. Some of the books are a bit more uneven then others, but Sabriel is a classic.

55% report:

Couldn't they have explained her name is pronounced Tee not Tay-ah earlier on?

What if some of these heartsglasses aren't even connected to people properly - back in Knightscross village, Tea's teenage sisters are the ones doing it to the 13-year-olds. Who trained them?!

With such a severe labor shortage of serious ashas and bone witches ( 2 left on whole continent?) how about they improve the training program. Start training apprentices immediately instead of forcing them to do domestic work as indentured servitude. More time teaching Runes, spellbinding, herbal medicine and fighting.
Less time on dancing, singing, fashion fittings and debut parties. Can someone from The Government come and take charge of this place? Need better Administration for Ankyo Asha school!

Fatmann66 wrote: "that's a good way to get someone to read the second book ;).
that's what I'm going to do now so she must have done a lot of things right."

Hehe

Bonnie wrote: "With such a severe labor shortage of serious ashas and bone witches ( 2 left on whole continent?) how about they improve the training program. Start training apprentices immediately instead of forcing them to do domestic work as indentured servitude. More time teaching Runes, spellbinding, herbal medicine and fighting."

Let the world burn, but humiliate an apprentice is the official logo of House Valerian!

Bonnie wrote: "55% report:

Couldn't they have explained her name is pronounced Tee not Tay-ah earlier on?
"

Oh wow, when I got to the part where someone pronounced her name wrong and they explained the correct way halfway through the book I was so annoyed. Could we not have done this earlier?

My goodness, I never thought to think about their... extended training program vs how low their labor force was. I agree, that's a bit short sited if they have a handful of people but the training program is years and is full of extra skills not directly related to their unique abilities.

One fun note about the pronunciation is that the Audible version calls her tee-uh throughout the whole series.

Weirdly enough I just went with "tee" the whole time. Never really thought about it otherwise.

Well that was a tough one for me to finish. Really not my taste. And if I read one my description of clothing, I’m going to scream.

Haha, there were a lot of clothing descriptions, compared to action descriptions, certainly. Good for you for trying something new though!

I gave up on this one, it just did not hold my attention long enough.

Meh, so meh, like a dull version of Memoirs of a Geisha mixed up with a really lightweight Young Teen fantasy.

I found this book very formulaic. It was well written, but really seemed like there was a young adult fantasy checklist that the author was working off of.
-humble beginnings: check
-enrolled in magic school / instructions: check
-special abilities above everyone else's power level: check
etc...

I agree with previous posters that the world building had issues. This is a common problem in high fantasy. I have yet to read a high fantasy world that can stand up to close scrutiny. Then again, a reality TV star is the president of the United States, so our world doesn't really stand up to close scrutiny either. Whenever I find myself asking questions like "If your heartsglass shows your power level and hidden emotions why would anyone wear their heartsglass in plain sight?" I keep American politics in mind.

Alex wrote: "I found this book very formulaic. It was well written, but really seemed like there was a young adult fantasy checklist that the author was working off of.
-humble beginnings: check
-enrolled in ma..."

I think this calls for a "lolsob."

Alex wrote: "I found this book very formulaic. It was well written, but really seemed like there was a young adult fantasy checklist that the author was working off of."

Exactly my thoughts!

So, for us handful of people who liked the book and might be considering continuing...

I just finished the second book, and I liked it even better.

We're sort of past the training/geisha phase, and there's a lot less talk about the details of the huas and stuff. I also felt like the intertwining between the past and present stories was a little stronger, with a closer ratio of time spent in each story.

The only thing that kept throwing me was the changing "I's". Sometimes I'm reading the framing story piece and I'd forget that "I" was bard, and I'd be confused for a second until I went back and reread it with that in mind....

Allison wrote: "Alex wrote: "I found this book very formulaic. It was well written, but really seemed like there was a young adult fantasy checklist that the author was working off of.
-humble beginnings: check
-e..."

Agreed and haha!

Ariana wrote: "This was... fine? It was enjoyable enough at first, but then I started to get annoyed by the YA-ness, but I was expecting that. The failure of the two timelines to come together is a big problem, i..."

This is a very good summary of how I felt. The YA was not as bad as many offerings, but still not my cup of tea. I felt like the future timeline didn't offer much to the book other than a distraction. Then, I felt like the whole thing was rather long-winded teaser of story to come. This approach is such a turn off for me.