Jane Austen discussion

This is the thread for discussing the character of Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park.

I don’t know if I should hide the below as spoilers, so I will just say here that the post below involves information from the entirety of the book.

I’ve been thinking about Edmund’s feelings for Fanny and whether the change in the last chapter was abrupt or logical from his behaviour throughout the book. I don’t know if this would resonate with others, but it was when Edmund encouraged Fanny about Henry Crawford that I had a first reaction of: oh, he can’t love her if he feels no jealousy but, quite to the contrary, is pleased that another man is in love with her; and then a second reaction of: why is Edmund encouraging Fanny to marry a man like Henry – it seems to make no sense.

I suppose he did not see as much evil of Henry as Fanny had done, and he was blinded by his partiality to Henry’s sister. But he could not have been so blind about Henry as he was about Mary, surely. And so I thought that perhaps it was because of his love for Fanny that he supported this match. My reasoning being: he loved Fanny, but his feelings were defined, in his heart, as the feelings one has for a sister. He loved her more, clearly, than his actual sisters, between them was a deep friendship, he was her hero and he must have known that and he seems to like being that for her. They relied on one another’s judgement. I think he thought so highly of her that when he observed Henry’s passion for her (and the fact that he spoke of marriage and wasn’t just flirting) it was as though Fanny was finally on the receiving end of the sort of admiration and love that he thought she deserved but it never occurred to him to supply himself. Furthermore, suddenly he could be friends with Henry (we are never told of them hanging out together much before Henry falls for Fanny), and I think it is because of Edmund’s admiration of Fanny – he must think highly of any man who appreciates her (on the same grounds he is very keen on Fanny and Mary being friends, so much so that he sees a friendship where there is none because he wants it so much).

Farfetched?

Perhaps Edmund’s pushing Fanny toward Henry is partly due to his crush on Mary, and partly due to his upbringing. He grew up in a family that valued wealthy and respectable connections—a secure establishment, marrying into a family that can reflect well on the Bertrams. He probably believes that Henry is the best Fanny can do in terms of her future security, and has visions of the two couples (Henry-Fanny, Edmund-Mary) being happy together. He has to learn that such worldly considerations don’t weigh with her, at least not enough to induce her to marry someone she cannot respect.

Emily wrote: "I don’t know if I should hide the below as spoilers, so I will just say here that the post below involves information from the entirety of the book.

I’ve been thinking about Edmund’s feelings for ..."

No, I don't think that's farfetched. I think that's a pretty clear delineation of Edmund's inner thinking.

So how do you figure he changes - or allows himself to change - so as to be in love with Fanny himself?

Elizabeth said: "So how do you figure he changes - or allows himself to change - so as to be in love with Fanny himself?"

That's precisely my thinking - I think that he was in love with her all along only he didn't know it. And I think the bit with Henry Crawford confirms it, but I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into that scene. In a way he and Henry are quite similar: they both allow themselves to be temporarily charmed by charming women, and both develop a lasting passion for Fanny. But the difference is that Edmund never sets out to hurt anybody, he is not vain, his intentions, even when his love is blind, are always honourable, whereas Henry is capable of acting out of vanity, anger or other negative feelings.

But the point I was making (not very eloquently, I know) is that it seemed to me like Edmund always loved Fanny (he always said she was one of the two dearest things to his heart etc.), but as he could not show it, did not himself know it, it showed in other ways. And so the thing that happened in the last chapter was not a change, but rather a logical conclusion to his eye-opening after Mary.

I agree with Elizabeth-- that is a great blueprint to Edmund's mindset, Emily. And I agree with you, Emily, that Edmund loved Fanny all along but just didn't fully realize it until events showed him that what he THOUGHT he wanted was actually not right for him. The experience taught and matured him, and then his real desires could come to the fore. Like you said, Emily--logical conclusion!

Among Austen's heroes, I think Edmund gets the short end of the stick because the entire focus of Mansfield Park isn't on the romance. That's not quite fair, though, and I especially see that on reading it again now. Edmund's central character trait is kindness and that's nothing to undervalue.

Rachel said: "Among Austen's heroes, I think Edmund gets the short end of the stick because the entire focus of Mansfield Park isn't on the romance. That's not quite fair, though, and I especially see that on reading it again now. Edmund's central character trait is kindness and that's nothing to undervalue."

Yes, and at the same time, like all of Austen's characters, he is beautifully flawed. The thing that happened with Mary, his falling in love with her despite it being obvious to the reader that they wouldn't do together, is distressing when you read it, but it also makes him so human. He aspires to be something better than a man driven by lust, but in the end he is just a human with human weaknesses.

When Fanny first arrives at Mansfield, Edmund is the only one who goes out of his way to make her feel at home, and most fifteen year old boys aren't interested in little girls' feelings or at least not enough to do anything about them. He really was a kind human being!