The Cosy Bookish Corner discussion

Hello Everyone,

June is finally here, so here we are with the June BOTM Discussion for Educated!!

This is my favourite genre, so I am really hoping we will all enjoy this one!

Let's get to it!

I'm excited!! It's got a long hold list at my library so I'm going with the audiobook in hopes it will get to me faster!! Just waiting for it to be ready for pick up. 😊

Kelsey wrote: "I'm excited!! It's got a long hold list at my library so I'm going with the audiobook in hopes it will get to me faster!! Just waiting for it to be ready for pick up. 😊"

Same!!! Hope you get it soon!! :)

I'm almost finished, and wow does it get good! If you are finding it a bit slow to start with (like I did), I highly recommend sticking with it!!

How is everybody else finding it?

I've just finished it this afternoon! Wow, what an inspiring and interesting story!

Here are a few discussion questions to get the party started! (some stolen from the NY Times):

Tara comes from a Mormon survivalist family - before reading this book, how much did you know about this type of church/belief and their lifestyle?

Despite her upbringing, it becomes more and more apparent that Tara is made out of a different mould than the rest of her family - why do you think that is? How much do our surroundings and upbringing actually affect who we really are?

(view spoiler)[After Westover decides to continue her education, she finds it increasingly difficult to reconcile her life on the mountain with her new life as a student of history. She writes that she had a “fractured mind.” Does it seem to you that she must lose one life to gain another? (hide spoiler)]

How did you view her relationship with her father, and did your perception of that relationship change throughout the book?

Looking back over the book, what did you learn about family and forgiveness and trauma? What did you learn about education?

I will answer as soon as I can! :)

Tara comes from a Mormon survivalist family - before reading this book, how much did you know about this type of church/belief and their lifestyle?
I must admit, I am ashamed to say that before reading this I thought Mormons and Amish were the same! This actually caused me to be quite confused for the first couple of chapters of the book, until I looked it up! But, then again, that's one of the reasons why I love to read - to learn! I did know slightly more about how Amish people lived, only because I remember watching a "reality" TV series years ago.

Despite her upbringing, it becomes more and more apparent that Tara is made out of a different mould than the rest of her family - why do you think that is? How much do our surroundings and upbringing actually affect who we really are?
I think about this a lot in general, but it particularly stuck with me while reading this book because usually, we do have other external factors outside our home that influence us in some way and widen our view of the world, but (view spoiler)[ in Tara's case, she was completely shut off from the "outside world" for most of her childhood. This is why it amazes me so much that even from a young age you could see glimpses of how Tara saw things a little bit different, but I think the main turning points were when she talked about when they listened to music and talked about school with her brother and when she joined the dancing classes.

I find it quite comforting to know that no matter what/who/where we come from, there is the core of us that stays untouched and maybe if we were born in different circumstances, a little part of us and who we are would stay the same (does that make sense?). (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[[After Westover decides to continue her education, she finds it increasingly difficult to reconcile her life on the mountain with her new life as a student of history. She writes that she had a “fractured mind.” Does it seem to you that she must lose one life to gain another? (hide spoiler)]

I could really relate to this part of her life, in my own little way. Even though I grew up in Italy, in a bi-cultural house (english & italian), when I moved to England I felt like "this was were I was going to finally fit in" and I did fit in a lot more than I ever did in Italy, and for a long time I had a bit of a complicated relationship with Italy (Like Tara, I felt that maybe I had to leave a part of me behind, to gain a new one). But as time passed and I got older, I could notice habits and other factors that are distinctly from my italian upbringing and this is where the term "fractured mind" is just perfect, as I just felt like a collection of fragments of italian and british culture. Although my experience is completely different from Tara's, I know what it is like to feel caught in the middle between your upbringing and your future, two cultures, two worlds and it can feel very confusing and conflicting - at the end, you find that there is good and bad in everything, you just take as much of the good as you can :) Although she struggled, I think she handled it extremely well and I loved that when she received good advice, she took it seriously (hide spoiler)]

How did you view her relationship with her father, and did your perception of that relationship change throughout the book?
(view spoiler)[ I am going to try to explain this the best I can - I have to say, I wasn't a big fan on him, until the long-awaited 1st January 2000 where nothing happened, and Tara talks about how distraught his dad was. After that, I just felt sorry for him throughout the rest of the book, because he really did believe in what he said, and in his eyes, he was a good person and a devout follower. Yes, there are many many many things he did that I feel are wrong and hurtful, but I think there is only so much hate we can feel towards somebody we are close to for just being themselves and maybe sometimes we just need to make peace with the fact that that person is just never going to be the person you want/need them to be. But, as I have heard Tara say in an interview (which I will link below!! Amazing!!) she said that she knows that her parents loved her in their own way, but it's just that their two lifestyles just couldn't fit together and that you can still love somebody from afar and not be in their life. (or something like that) (hide spoiler)]

Looking back over the book, what did you learn about family and forgiveness and trauma? What did you learn about education?
The book was amazing, the more I think about it, the more I am amazed by it. What hits me the most is how graceful Tara is throughout telling us her experiences, it is clear that she still loves her family and I think she is at some sort of peace with the fact that (view spoiler)[ they don't speak (I may have binge-watched a few interviews.... ). This book has done nothing but reinforce my belief that education (and not just academic!) is so important, and can change a person's life in a monumental way. (hide spoiler)]

We are in 2019 and we have a lifetime's worth of information and research in the palm of our hands on a daily basis - it has never been as easy to access information, and even though a lot of times we can be bombarded with information which is not always reliable, it is also probably a lot easier than ever to make a good, well-informed decision based on information taken reliable sources, and I am so grateful for it.

Here is an interview from Oprah with Tara Westover, highly reccomend it!!! https://www.facebook.com/SuperSoulSun...

You've got me all hyped about this one! it's KILLING me, my hold is STILL not ready. Probably gonna be next month by the time I get finished reading (I did look into buying it, but I couldn't justify $15 when I'm next on the list, lol). The struggle is real!!

Kelsey wrote: "You've got me all hyped about this one! it's KILLING me, my hold is STILL not ready. Probably gonna be next month by the time I get finished reading (I did look into buying it, but I couldn't justi..."

I feel your pain!! I am actually planning on announcing BOTM a month early so to give enough time for everyone to get the book!

Hope it will be worth the wait!!

Finally finished!! It was a really good read, as usual for us. lol.
How much did you know about Mormon church? I honestly knew quite a bit, in like 2006 I started watching the HBO series Big Love about a mormon fundamentalist family. I loved it, and around that time Warren Jeffs was arrested so it prompted me to do a lot of research. I also semi recently read Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith which was a really detailed informative book about mormon and fundamentalist beliefs and where they came from. I've always been pretty fascinated with religions. We live near an Amish community and I constantly wish I could pick their brains, I have so many question's about their daily life. My sister is also in the process of becoming a Jehovah's Witness and she lets me indulge in endless questions.
We grew up in a much less extreme way than Tara, clearly attended school, but my stepmom was very interested in holistic medicine, we used echinacea for colds and flus (it's horrid tasting, she would shoot it down our throats, haha). And for ear infections we would draw the infection out with a hot onion, burns got aloe. Duct tape or superglue on anything that didn't HAVE to go to a hospital. Learning to shoot and throw a knife was mandatory. And while my dad didn't necessarily buy into Y2K we did have a "safe room" with a stock of MRE's and water "just in case". So there was no religious motivation behind our "survivalist" lifestyle we did grow up in a similar down to earth type of way, so some of that wasn't crazy surprising.

How was Tara different than her family, nature/nurture?
Honestly I think its just depends on who we are, obviously surroundings effect us to an extent. But it's like when an alcoholic has two kids and one grows up to be exactly the same while the other watches the drinking and swears to never end up like that, and somehow just becomes a normal person who maybe drinks on occasion, but responsibly. I think its the same with a family like Tara's, some of her siblings watched the "show" and said I want to be like Tyler, get out; others saw mom, dad and Shawn and that was the dream, or at least all they thought they could hope for. If they had grown up with a different family maybe they all would have gone to school, but I bet the adults would have been a pretty similar result.
Ok I give long answers, I'm gonna come back later with more, lol

Kelsey wrote: "Finally finished!! It was a really good read, as usual for us. lol.
How much did you know about Mormon church? I honestly knew quite a bit, in like 2006 I started watching the HBO series Big Love ..."
Yaaay!!! I'm so happy you enjoyed the book! (Especially after that long wait!)

Also, loved your answers, keep them coming! :)

Thoughts on Dad? (view spoiler)[I couldn't stand the dad from the beginning, I honestly have no patience for people who shove their beliefs on others. I don't go to church, haven't since I was like 10, my daughter does, she is in the choir, my son has no interest, I'm whatever about it. I tried to be open minded because that's how they were raised, but once they opted to keep Tyler home with the burns, and she talked about how he would just chuck things at her in the junkyard, nope. He was the worst. Bipolar or not, I feel like there is no real excuse for him, this perception did not change with the story. (hide spoiler)]

Family, Forgiveness, Trauma, Education....
(view spoiler)[ I think Tara learned what a lot of people unfortunately have to she said it well with (something like) I can love them from afar but I can't be in their lives. This one seems to occur a lot with religious families that I read about, as well as people with addiction problems, it's sad when the only solution is to stay away, but for the better in the long run, and once you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to cut the ties. I don't have a lot to say about the trauma, she is brave and strong, some people would have shut down and given up, the fact that she kept going despite the madness she grew up in is a testament to how strong and determined she is. I'm one of those people who is always functional so I have a hard time with people who just completely give up when things get hard, or rely on everyone else to fix it for them.
As far as education, I think Tara outright proves that you can learn anything you set your mind to. I loved your thoughts Tanya, I comment often that this day and age its so easy to leard, with library's, books, kindles, google, websites about everything, and so many outreach programs through the library, here anyway, for people who can't make it to the actual building, so there is just no excuse not to educate yourself. (Cleary Tara's situation is unique) but I just love the ability to explore any question that pops into my mind. (hide spoiler)]

Kelsey wrote: "This one seems to occur a lot with religious families that I read about, as well as people with addiction problems, it's sad when the only solution is to stay away, but for the better in the long run, and once you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to cut the ties."Oh definitely!

I'm one of those people who is always functional so I have a hard time with people who just completely give up when things get hard, or rely on everyone else to fix it for them. ” I’m the same, I absolutely agree!

I've read this last year. I really enjoyed the academic theme to the book.