The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Thanks for starting the discussion without me.

1) The devil’s pool, believed to inspire fear and confusion, seems to have brought Germain and Marie to a moment of clarity. Why do you think the devil's pool had the opposite effect (clarity) on Germain and Marie with regards to their feeling for each other?

2) Last week I made mention that Marie seems to have a lot of common sense, especially for one so you. Germain, on the other hand almost seems at a loss about how to manage the most basic skills for survival. It seems out of balance when comparing the two. What do you think about this? Do you think there is a reason the author would have portrayed Germain this way?

3) In contrast to the many of the Russian authors' portrayal of the peasantry (constant drunkenness, squalor, wretchedness, and being abused by their landlords, Sand’s peasants respond to the hardship of their lives with unyielding stoicism and are upright, moral, sensible and respectable. Why, do you think, such a stark contrast?

I just finished this week’s reading. Some thoughts/ ideas:

- I’m wondering if the Devil’s Pool is truly “enchanted.” Since its the title of the book it clearly has some significance. I couldn’t decide if its properties are magical like the old woman believes or if its only importance is it is the location where Germaine realizes his feelings for little Marie.

-I wasn’t surprised that things didn’t go well with the wealthy widow. But I was surprised at first about the behavior of the farmer toward Marie. I was a bit angry when Germaine accused Marie of “allowing“ the farmer to man-handle her but of course that is the prevailing sentiment of the time. And this episode gave Germaine a chance to show off his manliness to Marie.

- Marie is becoming a bit one dimensional to me in her role as perfect innocent maiden.

- I can’t imagine Sand’s depiction of peasant life is overly accurate. Which is not her fault since she never experienced peasant life. But she has taken it upon herself to show the inner life of people whom it seems to me she has very little understanding. Does anyone else have thoughts about Sand’s intentions so far?

- I found it funny at the end of the reading that Marie’s mother assumed her full wood shed and never ending potato supply was likely a result of the Devil but very pragmatically decided not to put a stop to it unless/until he asked for her soul in return!

Jenny wrote: "I just finished this week’s reading. Some thoughts/ ideas:

- I’m wondering if the Devil’s Pool is truly “enchanted.” Since its the title of the book it clearly has some significance. I couldn’t de..."

I agree that the devil in the pool seems a little thin. The concept hAs a lot of potential but just keeping giving them an extra few hours to get to know each other seems unnecessary. They had all those hours on the trip and dealing with the squire to bond over, so the pool seems like overkill

I'm enjoying this so far as a pastoral tale which also shows some of the darker side of this time and society in terms of the vulnerability of women. First that Marie would have been put under Germaine's "protection" for the journey-he is of course a fine young man with all good intentions but he himself has to struggle against his impulses while they are lost! I also wondered if the very fact of their having been alone together overnight would damage her reputation. Then her being sent off to a strange farm to live (and if she hadn't gone with Germaine she would likely have been assaulted by the farmer, again with likely loss of reputation and possible pregnancy. Finally, we see the vulnerability of women at different stages-the widow and her need to remarry and Marie's mother who has been left impoverished and relying on the help of neighbours.

I was also surprised at the widow's mismanagement of their "engagement". I understand that she might think that making herself seem desirable to others would stir his ardour, but given the assumed arrangement between the fathers (or at least Germaine had assumed this) I would have thought that she would have wanted some time alone with Germaine to decide if she wanted to pursue the relationship.

Finally, is Germaine doing anything besides the presents of wood and potatoes to court Marie? He must realize that she still thinks of him as a generation older than her, and that he might want to do something to change her point of view.

I hadn't in fact registered "The Devil's Pool" as a separate entity so should probably go back and reread that section, given that it's the title of the book!

I’m still reading but wanted to address the previous comments as to Marie bring one dimensional. She represents the “perfect” woman of that time. Sand,herself, found these roles to be oppressive. Perhaps she’s making a comment as to how limiting those roles are for women.

Sand is also showing the strength in women as Marie is the one who continues to come up with solutions to the problems - fire, food, wine, a makeshift bed, etc.

I went ahead and finished the book over the weekend bc it was due back at the library.

I also got the sense that Sand was poking at men/patriarchy here. Germain is pretty darn incompetent on their trip to Fourche; if Marie hadn’t been there would Germain and Pierre have even survived? Also, I noticed that Germain was very emotional, unable to solve simple problems because of his frustration, while Marie remains calm and rational. Role reversal!

Very true about Marie, Deborah and Jill. I was focusing on her complete lack of sexuality and her perfect maiden status. Yet, while Germaine is emotional and distracted, Marie is calmly keeping the situation under control.

Really great points! I’ve just been going along thinking “I like this girl” but clearly there are reasons to want her in your foxhole.

Jill wrote: "I also got the sense that Sand was poking at men/patriarchy here. Germain is pretty darn incompetent on their trip to Fourche; if Marie hadn’t been there would Germain and Pierre have even survived? Also, I noticed that Germain was very emotional, unable to solve simple problems because of his frustration, while Marie remains calm and rational. Role reversal!"

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this way. When I was reading (and taking notes... because yes, I'm a geek like that, lol) the word I used for Germain was buffoon. It seemed to me he should have a better handle on things just due to age and life experiences.

Frances wrote: "I was also surprised at the widow's mismanagement of their "engagement". I understand that she might think that making herself seem desirable to others would stir his ardour, but given the assumed arrangement between the fathers (or at least Germaine had assumed this) I would have thought that she would have wanted some time alone with Germaine to decide if she wanted to pursue the relationship."

I hadn't even thought about that until you mentioned it. I thought the widow's behavior a bit over the top, not what you'd expect from a woman of that time period.

Buffoon is the perfect word for Germain! He’s a good guy with good intentions but I sure wouldn’t want him around in a crisis, he’d just get in my way lol.

Jill wrote: "Buffoon is the perfect word for Germain! He’s a good guy with good intentions but I sure wouldn’t want him around in a crisis, he’d just get in my way lol."

Yeah, I think he's a good example of a decent guy who is good at his job but not very practical when "out of his element." Also, as you mentioned, he's rather emotional. And his feelings for Marie may hit him harder since he's never been the type to look at women, with the exception of his wife.

Marie is more practical than emotional. Even if she did meet someone she liked, she's the type who would be able to control her feelings if she's not in a position to act on them.

The widow was interesting. She sees no hurry to settle down, and she's in a position where she can afford to stay single if necessary. But of course her lifestyle is very different from Germain's and I don't think they'd suit each other. Doesn't make her a bad person.

Looking forward to the rest!

I wonder if the widow doesn’t really want to remarry at all, like Germain? She doesn’t seem to be in any hurry (I think she’s been eligible and courted for two years, if memory serves) and apparently is quite enjoying stringing several men along at a time. I was a little put off by her at first, as is Germain, but on reflection maybe she’s just living her best life and is a wee bit tipsy with power. 💃🏻

Good perspective, Lori and Jill, on the widow's point of view. She may be even less inclined to be matched off than Germain is, so perhaps her behaviour is simply in keeping with her attempt to remain single. While I think a bad marriage would be troublesome and unpleasant for a man, he would still get an unpaid housekeeper and bed partner. A bad marriage for a woman would mean a loss of independence and potentially very serious and lifelong abuse.

Yeah, and she seems to enjoy the social circle where she is. I could be wrong, but it seems that Fourche and Mers, though still villages, are more "urban" than where Germain comes from? If she does marry, she'd be happiest with a man who lives in that same environment. I doubt she'd be happy living with Germain's in-laws, though they seem to be lovely people, even if she likes Germain himself.

I think we are supposed to despise the widow as Germain does. That way we don't have to feel sorry for her when he finds he prefers Marie. Even if Marie hadn't been in the story, I don't think Germain would have wanted to become the widow's next suitor. He wasn't keen on remarrying when the topic first came up

Lori wrote: "Yeah, and she seems to enjoy the social circle where she is. I could be wrong, but it seems that Fourche and Mers, though still villages, are more "urban" than where Germain comes from? If she does..."

That makes a lot of sense.

Robin wrote: "I think we are supposed to despise the widow as Germain does. That way we don't have to feel sorry for her when he finds he prefers Marie. Even if Marie hadn't been in the story, I don't think Germ..."

Also she represents the artifice in society.

I enjoyed reading everyone's comments for this section.

I also wondered at Germain's inability to think in a crisis situation when they were lost and be able to make a fire and get them into a comfortable situation. I think he is a good guy at heart, but I was surprised all throughout this scene. I thought it was great that Marie is shown as a sensible woman, able to think for herself and not "get things done", as it were. She certainly is a calming presence, and possibly why Petite Pierre is drawn to her.

I was happy to finally learn of the book's title, but it didn't make sense to me as mentioned before, it seemed to have the opposite effect on Germaine, meaning it offered him clarity in his thoughts and feelings instead of leading him astray. I thought the widow's personality was a twist, and I also did not care for her when Germaine was first introduced to her. But after reading the comments above, I can see her situation from her perspective now.

It saddened me that Marie did not have the same feelings in return for Germaine. I can see her hesitation in regards to their age difference, but the fact that she doesn't have the loving feelings towards him doesn't bode well. After Germaine confessed his feelings towards her, I can understand why he is not going out of his way to convince her otherwise now that they are home. I'm sure he does not want to look like a fool who continues to try to win her over. But since he still cares for her, he is happy to do what he can to at least make sure she is warm and fed.

I really enjoyed Marie's response to Germaine's proposal as I thought the book was heading to their falling in love on the trip. I had been expecting the 'perfect innocent maiden' response of "of course, I will marry a good man like you, and raise your children, who I love, as my own." Instead, she basically says to Germaine: "I can't imaging falling in love or even being attracted to you, you 28 year old codger." Instead, she has her eye on another young teenager, as well she should. She doesn't want to get stuck taking care of a farm and an old man. A sensible girl.
Germaine's response shows that he is not as purely good, as I thought, but is a bit creepy in using his son to press his case while they are still travelling together. The Marie/Germaine relationship is not, as of now, what I anticipated and is much better for it.

In the first part, Germain's inlaws mentioned that he wasn't very practical and would someone good at details to help him run the farm after they are gone.
The widow would not be a good choice because she would not be happy in a small place.
As someone mentioned, not all the villages are the same size.

I was born in Germany and lived in a farming community until we emigrated to Canada when I was six, quite a few years ago.
My aunt moved to another farming community when she got married which was a lot smaller.
I am sure the same situation occurs in France.

As for Marie, to a 16 year old girl, a man of 28 with three children, is old.