/r/Fantasy Discussion Group discussion

I just wanted to ask your opinion on how magic is portrayed in literature. In modern fantasy it seems to be common to speak about ‘magic systems’, and it occurred to me that it seems odd to speak of magic as a system.

Magic should be something that defies the laws of physics. Something mysterious and connected to wonder. Magic is something happens that breaks the natural laws of the universe. I grew up reading Arthurian literature, both medieval and contemporary, and in those books magic is something that us beyond human understanding.

However, in some modern fantasy books, magic is written as a system, where there is a rational explanation on how everything works. But for me this is not exactly magic, but a different set of laws of physics. For example, in the books of Brandon Sanderson, the laws of the universe behave in a way different from our world, and he offers an explanation of how they work. It’s not something intrinsically mysterious and that breaks the natural laws; it is something that human beings can understand; they are a part of nature.

What do you think?

I can cope with either. If it is beyond human understanding, then presumably there won't be any humans wielding it! Done well, this approach can be fabulous as the backdrop to the main character's story, but it is less satisfying when the main character is actually the one using magic, because as a user, there are no limits offered to the scope of power available to them. Suspension of disbelief can suffer, if the only explanation is "it's magic".

It is my personal opinion that the magical elements in the story must be defined and balanced or it would come through as a deus ex machina, but of course that depends on the quality of the execution and the craftsmanship of the writer.
The phase itself "magic system" maybe modern but the concept is found in classic fantasy as well as modern. That is shown clearly in Tolkien's Legendarium where magic is as you say a natural part of the universe with established (if not always clear) limits to where it comes from and what it can and cannot do, and the same goes for Zalazny's Chronicles of Amber to a lesser extent.
I agree that the Magic System concept is more associated with modern fantasy and that it became one of the necessary and defining elements to a modern fantasy story (i.e. world building, magic system, characterization), and where there is even a difference between hard magic systems and soft magic systems..but that's what modern fantasy is.

I deal with magic in my series about dragons. I should mention my story takes place on Earth. Dragons draw in the Treoir, the ancient energy left over from the Creation of the universe, and utilize it in one of the schools of elemental magic, the use of which is governed by the Second Law. As they begin to interact with Man, they solicit humans as dragonriders to assist them. As part of their training, these humans are taught the use of dragon magic. Over time, they stop teaching their humans the magic directly...instead they are merely the conduit through which the dragons channel the magic; thereby guaranteeing the magic is only used for good.

I think it's a natural progression, where authors have found ways to create their own original spin on the genre they love. I wonder if it also comes from some authors being drawn to science or who enjoy digging into nitty gritty details. Naturally this would come through in their writing.

It's also really fun to get into worldbuilding and create stories around the powers the characters have. Is it still magic if a spell or power isn't mysterious? Maybe it was a mystery when characters were younger. But as they get older, they understand the limitations and consequences of magic. Maybe they don't fully understand where it comes from. In Lev Grossman's Magicians trilogy, the characters knew where magic came from, but the mystery was partly about what to do with it.

There is no set way magic has to be in fantasy. Every authors take is going to be different even in cases of series written by the same author. It can be as defined or undefined as they desire. Or even need in terms of plot. And it's that simple, magic can be both how it was in the works of King Arthur that you read and also the way it is in Brandon Sanderson's works. There really isn't a right or wrong way.

I like classic fantasy where magic is mysterious. But I like "magic systems also". I hate to start a rabbit trail, but what bothers me more is when the lands and places of fantasy are not mysterious. Middle Earth is a mysterious place. However, when we start talking about other planets or dystopia earth, then it takes some of the mystery and magic away from fantasy tales and gives it more of a sci-fi feel. Not that it's a bad thing but I prefer the mystery and magic of "Middle-Earth" type places.