The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

The hero of our story is William Crimsworth, a strong-willed young man who narrates the story in the first person.

What do we learn about his family background?

How does his effort to attempt a career in "trade" strike you?

What do we learn about the society of the time, especially in William's encounters with his brother and Hunsden?

Did he do the right thing in leaving England?

Also, please feel free to comment on anything that strikes you as interesting or important.

A lot of background given to us in these chapters. I’m undecided about William. He has a stubborn strike and a lot of pride or it could be integrity. To early to tell for me. I am enjoying the writing style so far.

I am enjoying the style too. I like the way he took to teaching. As a retired teacher, I admire his strategy to get the boys to behave.

In my copy, none of the French is translated. You can probably guess what it says, but if anyone has the same edition and wants a translation, I can provide it.

It seems like money isn't that important to William, or social class, but how he is treated overall. Hunden is a strange character. He claims he likes to combat injustice but it's unclear why he focused on William.

I was intrigued by William's fascination with the girls' school next door, whose view is blocked. That actually makes sense for a young man who has had no opportunity to interact with girls. He was at a boys' school, then working with men. At the party at his brother's house, he had no chance to dance with or even talk with a girl. He is barely out of his teens, so females would loom large in his thinking.

It's interesting that Bronte made this book, so far, all about male characters. The red-headed wife who is briefly described is dismissed as a childish nothing.

Thanks for pointing that out, Robin. William has had very little to do with girls or women, other than his annoying cousins, of course.

Am reading two other books but hope to join in soon. I haven't read this since I was thirteen and don't remember is as well as Villette.

I'm waiting for my book to arrive at the library. It should be here tomorrow or Friday. It sounds interesting so far; I can't wait to start reading!

I hope you get it soon, Cleo.

Me too. I thought I owned it which is why I'm late starting as I can't find it and had to order it from the library. It says "in transit" though!

I read this last year and was really surprised to find a male protagonist. William is however a character I liked. He is stubborn, headstrong and proud for sure. But those characteristics he employed for the betterment of his self and his future life, so I didn't find ill in them.

His accepting employment with his brother was not a wise decision. But I understood his need for it. But given his character I doubted whether he could be just a submissive clerk. His leaving this employment was inevitable.

It is difficult to say whether his decision to leave England is a good move, but that was where he got his employment opportunity through Hunsden, so he had to accept it to claim his independence. I'm of the view William's disposition is suitable for a teacher. So in this light it is a right move as to the choice of profession.

I enjoyed Charlotte's writing in this novel more than in Jane Eyre. I'm sure to be in the minority to feel this way. But to me Charlotte's writing has a male voice. It's powerful and passionate and loudly venting. This style well corresponds to a male protagonist and narrator rather than that of a female. Personally, this quality made me enjoy this novel more than Jane Eyre, the only other novel of Charlotte I've read yet.

I read Villette, which is set in a girl's school, but it was written when Charlotte was older and had suffered some great losses in her life.
So far, I like the style and the overall atmosphere in The Professor more than in Villette. It is more straightforward and William is a determined character, for now anyway.

I agree with you, Piyangie. It's interesting what you say about a male voice. Certainly the Brontes tried to convince the public that they were men, so she was probably aiming for a male voice.

In the early chapters I've been comparing this to Great Expectations. England must have been lousy with young men educated beyond their means! I must say, I enjoy this more; perhaps it's just that I'm in the mood for a more straightforward narrative with few divagations. But I've always found something a little cringeworthy in Dickens. I feel Bronte really captures the mind-set of a very young person who has vague ambitions but doesn't know how to set about achieving them--the restless, undirected energy.

I think it’s interesting that William’s family background is half business, half aristocrat. He seems to think he takes after his mother more, but he also seems to have some of his father’s practical mindset as well. I wouldn’t have understood some of the industrial England references without having read Gaskell’s North and South a few years ago. The north of England being where manufacturing was located. The south being where the aristocracy was comfortably located, looking down upon the working men who made their life possible. I like so far how William embodies both- a thoughtful man with a work ethic.

Okay, I received my book yesterday and am caught up past chapter 7!

I felt relief after reading the first chapter of this book. Jane Eyre is probably in my top 5 all-time favourites, yet I was so disappointed with Villette which made me scared to read this one. However, I'm really enjoying it so far!

I wondered at Brontë's purpose at setting up the novel with a letter to someone who is gone and to whom William can no longer write? Was it to make it more interesting; to capture the reader's interest from the beginning? It seems somewhat pointless to me but perhaps it's a method that does add to the whole.

Again, there are a few references to physiognomy, which I believe was a popular method from this period for determining a person's character. Interesting ...

Edward Crimsworth is indeed a monster. Never mind, William, I'm not sure how anyone could work under him or even be around him.

I was surprised by a few aspects of William's behaviour. For an intelligent man, and one who places such a high prize on intelligence, I don't understand why he would think he'd receive long-term happiness from being in a profession he knew he wouldn't like. He does mention his brother and his lack of society as the worst thing about his employment, but when he no longer has employment, he certainly won't consider another position such as the one he had.

I also don't know why he seemed not to give a thought to what he WOULD like to do until the very last minute when Hunsden mentions Belgium.

AND, why did he blame Mr. Hunsden so passionately for being the cause of him losing his position when William actually quit when his brother was chastizing him. Perhaps he thought his firing would be the end result, but Edward seemed to like to torment him enough to keep him around. It seemed rather childish to blame Hunsden so emphatically. There is a pridefulness and meanness to William that I sometimes find disturbing.

And while I'm so enjoying Brontë's writing, a tone of superiority and judgement creeps into the narrative sometimes in a way that's not pleasing. I noticed this in Villette but in Jane Eyre the characters seemed to be much more tolerant and understanding. Perhaps there wasn't the foreign element to Jane Eyre but even within X______ William professed his judgement on people with a harshness at times that was a little bit jarring. Am I being too sensitive?

Some good points, Cleo. About blaming Mr. Hunsden, my feeling was more that he really wanted Hunsden to take responsibility for his rather capricious actions, rather than that he blamed him per se. The consequence could easily have been William's starvation, and who wouldn't object to someone playing god with your life? And creating in Mr. Hunsden a sense of having incurred a debt allowed William to ask for help.

It seems to me that William gets whatever strength he has from opposition. He opposed his uncles when they tried to force him into the church and marriage, and when one of them asked if he was going to go into trade like his brother, he said yes just to be defiant, not from any sense of commitment.

The letter to someone offstage was a common nineteenth-century mechanism to introduce any first-person narrative. There seemed to be a feeling that one wouldn't write about oneself without an interested auditor. It kind of amused me that William abandoned the pretext after just one letter! It was very young-man egotistical.

He is young and I find him lacking in emotional depth. But I don't consider his fault, since he was raised without a loving family. He spends a lot of time alone. Although he doesn't mention it, he must have been lonely when living in lodgings.

Thanks for your insights, Abigail; they're very helpful.

Abigail wrote: "It seems to me that William gets whatever strength he has from opposition....."

A great point! I wonder if he realizes this, even if it's just more of an unconscious realization.

I still think his blaming Hunsden was more of a thoughtless reaction. He quit his position himself, but perhaps after he thought about it, felt rather apprehensive about his next steps and lashed out at a person who is not directly responsible but he might get away with blaming. He certainly didn't reveal to Hunsden that he quit before Edward fired him (if, indeed, that would have happened).

Rosemarie, he certainly does spend time alone and sometimes almost seems to do it in defiance to his situation, but there are flashes where it's obvious that he wants to make a deeper connection with someone. His lack of close family would definitely make it more difficult for him, but it wouldn't absolve him of responsibility for his actions, especially considering he's now a man and would have had examples somewhere of how to act with responsibility and integrity. I am curious as to how his character will develop.

You mentioned above that you liked his method of teaching. I would love to know why. He seems rather harsh and definitely judgemental to the Belgians as a whole, but his methods do seem to work.

I find he is judgmental, but I think he tries to be fair and consistent. Once students know that a teacher doesn't allow any nonsense, they tend to settle down a lot quicker. Back then, learning was teacher directed and the students were expected to comply with all instructions.
I wonder if Charlotte Bronte felt that way about Belgians and other Europeans. In general, the British did not consider themselves Europeans, especially in the time of the British Empire.

Jenny wrote: "The north of England being where manufacturing was located. The south being where the aristocracy was comfortably located, looking down upon the working men who made their life possible. I like so far how William embodies both- a thoughtful man with a work ethic...."

I really like this thought, Jenny. It exhibits a balance within William which definitely shows promise.

I really loved North and South too! :-)

Rosemarie wrote: "I find he is judgmental, but I think he tries to be fair and consistent. Once students know that a teacher doesn't allow any nonsense, they tend to settle down a lot quicker. Back then, learning wa..."

Thanks, Rosemarie, for explaining his educational methods. Makes sense!

Your point about England is well-taken. And it's not the scenery so far William takes (some) issue with; it's the people.

Finally got caught up a bit. I'm going to be in the minority here, but then again I'm really not a Bronte fan.
So far, I've found William to be like many Bronte protagonists - dour and judgmental. When I'm reading a novel, I don't expect everything to be roses (and it's pretty annoying if it is), but after reading Bronte, I get kind of the same feeling I would after listening to someone complain for an hour.
Edward Crimsworth is, of course, a monster. I wonder if this is partially because he saw more of how his family was treated, being older than William. And probably partially his natural temperament. And then of course he's jealous that William was sent off to be educated and he wasn't.
Mr. Hunsden is an interesting character. He seems like someone who would be likeable once one got to know him. Maybe there was something in his background to make him sympathize with William. Or maybe he just dislikes Edward (and might see him as a rival) and sees helping his brother as a way to "get to" him.
I'm glad William got out of England, and I think things are about to get more interesting.

I'm not really a Bronte fan either--except perhaps when it comes to Anne. As for Charlotte, this may be her least objectionable book to my taste; Jane Eyre and Villette both have a hysterical feel to me, like pulp-fiction melodrama. And I don't take to her willful, autocratic heroes.

I am not the biggest Bronte fan either, but I did enjoy Anne's books. It is sad that she is overshadowed by her sisters, because I think her books are not as biased as Charlotte's and more realistic than Wuthering Heights.

I can't help comparing this book to Villette, which was overdramatic and overwrought.
This book seems to be a lot calmer, but then William is telling the story, so his personality influences how the story is told.

Rosemarie wrote: "I am not the biggest Bronte fan either, but I did enjoy Anne's books. It is sad that she is overshadowed by her sisters, because I think her books are not as biased as Charlotte's and more realisti..."

I have been wanting to read The Tenant of Wildfell Hall.

I've read it twice, Lori, and enjoyed it both times.

Lori wrote: "but after reading Bronte, I get kind of the same feeling I would after listening to someone complain for an hour. l. ..."

LOL! That's so true for this novel and for Villette, but I do love Jane Eyre. I like that she didn't portray Rochester as this perfect man. Given the judgement emanating from William in this novel and Lucy in Villette, I find it refreshing. I was thinking of criticisms in Jane Eyre and I think Jane receives most of them, which makes her more likeable as a heroine as she rises above them. Still one of my favourite novels. I do agree in that I like Anne's novels too. Wuthering Heights I could barely stomach. I saw glimpses of promise but the book itself is a mess ..... sadly Emily died too soon.

Lori wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "I am not the biggest Bronte fan either, but I did enjoy Anne's books. It is sad that she is overshadowed by her sisters, because I think her books are not as biased as Charlotte's..."

Lori I would recommend an annotated edition of Tenant. There are a lot of subtle jokes in it that I know I missed when I read it without the annotation.

Deborah wrote: "Lori wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "I am not the biggest Bronte fan either, but I did enjoy Anne's books. It is sad that she is overshadowed by her sisters, because I think her books are not as biased a..."

Thank you!

I'm not a big Bronte fan, yet this will be my 6th of the 7 Bronte novels.
Thus far, I like the start better than Jane Eyre, Villette or Agnes Grey. Maybe, as Piyangie suggests, it's the male voice as I also found the best part of "Tenant" to be when Anne wrote in Gilbert's voice. I would presume it's because I am a male, but I do like the Jane Austen and Gaskell heroine stories. Maybe both Charlotte and Anne, besides merely claiming to be, actually write better as males.
William is a more interesting protagonist so far than the ones in other Brontes. He had a right to be upset with Hunsden, who wanted to be thanked and owed a favor for getting him fired and whipped. Even if William agreed that getting fired was good for him, getting whipped was not, and as was suggested, he couldn't let Hunsden get too much of the upper hand that he was so eagerly trying to claim. I agree, though, that Hunsden, is a good character
I have enjoyed the family conflict and story in the British setting, but have a bit of trepidation that the rest may be just a male-centered Villette. If it is, at least it will be a shorter version.

Brian, do you mean William?
Edward is the older brother.

Rosemarie wrote: "Brian, do you mean William?
Edward is the older brother."
Yes, I meant William and now it says William. Technology, amazing.

It certainly is! 😉