Around the World in 80 Books discussion

Between the Woods and the Water is the sequel to A Time of Gifts This is the second book chronicling Fermor's Travels abroad. The trilogy chronicles his journey from the Hook of Holland to Constantinople.

Please comment below if you are joining in on the read. The start date is Wednesday, July 10, 2019.

Enjoy the Journey!

A few thoughts as we begin.
Cording to Patrick Leigh Fermor: An Adventure the best of this trilogy was the first. That said I enjoyed A Time for Gifts more than enough to read on.

Based on both the Bio and Gifts, Patrick is one of my leading contenders for the Worlds most Interesting Man.

He was largely self taught, but clearly what he taught himself places him easily among the academically trained. His command of languages alone mark him as one of a very few.

Clearly he was a great story teller, singer of song, party animal and more than able to charm himself out of difficulties and into all levels of society. Of his service during WW II behind the lines in Crete, little more need be said except that he was a real thing War Hero.

In a long tradition of travel writers, he ranks with the best, I have to think that more recent leaders in the field, Bill Bryson comes to mind, learned how to be better by reading Patrick. If they don't they should.

I'm in.

Carla wrote: "I'm in."


Glad you're on the journey Carla! Welcome!

Indeed welcome.

Because I tend to like to have things laid out, but do not know if we should have anything in the way of a leader, maybe you two can tell me how you like for a buddy read to operate.

Looks like we're all here and ready to begin. We would probably benefit from your leadership Phrodrick. I suggest you take that role, if Carla is agreed.

How do i add books to my book challenge?

Kimberly wrote: "How do i add books to my book challenge?"

You know, Kimberly, I am not sure how that works. This group's Around the World Challenge shows up there when I accepted the challenge. But, I don't know how they do that.

As for this buddy read of Fermor, it will show up as one of my yearly total when I mark it finished. And, you can join the buddy read if you like by just marking the book currently reading.

Anyone knowing the correct answer feel free to enlighten us.

I'm okay with Phodrick as fearless leader.

Hi Trevelin
Sounds like we have a nay-sayer
Maybe you can balance the rest.

Yes he did lose some of his notebooks, but did recover some. It is also very typicalical for travel writers to start their books years after they start their travels. Think Marco Polo and any of several Arab travelers.

OTOH it is possible that he freely mixed what he saw then with what he knows now. Technically that might be cheating, except that there are no set rules for a travel book. My bottom line is that he did walk the walk and did do these things and did learn about them. Through his writing I have, so far enjoyed a lot of what has since been bombed, burned or made into malls.

Sorry you do not like his large vocabulary. Just proof that not every thing is for every one. Pure speculation, maybe the purple dictionaries come with mastery of so many languages.

For the group today is official kick off.
I have been in reads where everyone stays together and at least tries to have the same edition.
It is a tad late to coordinate editions, so a next step is chapters.

I see 8 chapters and about 10 pages of into. So for me an average of 30 pages per chapter.
I have read Chapt 1 and found it pretty easy reading.
Their being 3 , 4<?> of us the trick is to not get too far ahead of each other.
Also I do not know who is reading lots of book or has family or jobs to distract them from the good things, like reading.

I am gonna suggest that we are free to discuss anything from A Time For Gifts and Through Chapter 1.
Spoilers should not exactly mean the same thing as say a murder mystery.

Until we get a better 'read' on each other, can agree to a pace as of Friday ?

On the chance we need some ideas to get the juices going:

Orientation:
In general what brings you to travel books?
How do you judge them?

Are there things about Fermor you esp like, or do not like?
What do you think of the titles?
Anyone happen to know what 4 Pounds sterling bought in Europe in the mid 1930's?

Don;t know if anyone has read , for example Black Lamb and Grey Falcon but have you any other books that might give you another slant on this part of Europe pre-WWII?

First, my intro bit...

I enjoy travel books because I enjoy travel, history, cartography... etc. I've read and enjoyed both Marco Polo's Travels and Ibn Battutah's Rihla. Polo was distanced from his notebooks when he was in prison and began to pen his book through Rusticello... (is that spelled right?) And, it had been over fifty years since the start of his journey in 1254. IB started his journey in 1304, and his manuscripts weren't pubbed until (the first part) around 1355. The manuscripts for the second part weren't published until 1818 or so. So, your comparison of Fermor to these greats is very apt Phrodrick.

As to how I judge them, I look for certain key ingredients. First and foremost I want the author to be enjoying himself immensely. I dislike some of the snooty travel writers who kvetch about the wine list, or amenities not being up to the home standard. Second, I look for the writer's interaction with real people and nature. Third, the buildings; churches, forts, landmarks, can not be omitted. Mark Twain's Tramp Abroad comes to mind. He does all these well, like Fermor, though not with Fermor's intellectual skill over language.

Some of Fermor's nature descriptions, like that of the storks in this first chapter, remind me of William Beebe's nature writing in Jungle Peace. I read the first chapter today, and felt the ritual of a Catholic Easter Sunday service seemed to have a huge effect on Fermor at that moment in his life. He seemed transfixed by the ritual. He was himself participating in a ritual of the 'gap year,' in effect. It served him well, whatever his experiences afterwards, because he lived to be about 95. I think that was a great plan... see the world while you are young... then live in it.

The title seems characteristic of Fermor's style to me, the way he turns phrases slightly to make you take notice. For some reason, it seems the words should be 'between the water and the woods.' That just seems to roll off your tongue more easily. But, his turned title stops the reader at the end of the phrase with some hint at the breaks in his journey. Either way, it is apparent he will be traveling with the Danube on one side and the Hungarian plains and Transylvania's forests and mountains on his other side. The map that is in-leafed in this first chapter reveals that the sights must have presented splendid vistas for such a young man's eyes.

I haven't read Black Lamb and Gray Falcon, but I will have a look soon. At the moment, I am reading Dune along with this. I am also in Uganda on my Journey Around the World in 80 Books Challenge, where I am reading The Lunatic Express. On the side I've been plowing through Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. But, that may take me forever since it is so long and quite a challenging book for me.

I have plenty of time for reading, so I read several at at time. As to format: I have the hardback edition with a scenic cover of Fermor on horseback that seems to be a 1986 edition. (Probably the same one you have Phrodrick... Introductory letter, 8 chapters, and Appendix Thoughts. But, I'm following along with the Audible narrated by Crispin Redman. And, I checked the Kindle version for a translation of that opening Schiller quotation, since I do not have Fermor's "... a quarter of my stock of Hungarian..." or German, for that matter. It is translated something like this...

People roar, names fade away,
Finally oblivion spreads the dark-night wings
Over whole generations.

I loved the way Fermor focused on the storks in the church bell tower. He followed their journey mentally, seemingly comparing his journey to their journey to Africa.

"...Like the storks, posed with cunning as plants."

First Admin:
It does not seem that we are all fired up and in a rush to post.
May I prose a general goal of about 15 pages a day or a chapter every 2 to 3?
Also there looks to be little reason to enforce this in more than general terms. It is not like we do not know how this is going to end, or when.

Goals to keep us moving and little risk if you get ahead?

So we are open for comments through the end of chapt 3. And start 4 by Monday? Make a noise if this chafes.

I don't read many travel books, but I have read a couple by Bill Bryson and part of Pausanias' writings from 2nd century AD, supposedly the first travel guide.

I'm retired and have plenty of time for reading. I'm way ahead of you, about 60% through the book. I prefer to read just one book at a time, but I'll make an exception and pause and reread the sections as others get to them.

My edition is a 1986 paperbook. It doesn't have a map in chapter 1, so I have pulled out the atlases and will search Google maps.

In the intro, Jan Morris says that it is like the book is written by TWO authors, the 19-year-old adventurer who did have access to old nobility and their libraries as he traveled and the 70-year-old man who had plenty of life experiences and time to reflect.

My first impression was that he had an amazing vocabulary. He seemed to pick up languages very quickly. I decided to go with the flow and not look up most of the unfamiliar words.

My second impression was that he used just the right amount of description of the nature, places and people he encountered. My last travelogue read was Pausanias who could grind for 10 pages on architectural details of a temple or history, but spent little time and ink on the natural surroundings and nothing on the people he met.

I have not read A Time of Gifts, but I did read the bio by Artemis Cooper. I came away from that feeling annoyed and impatient with Fermor for the way he spent many days or even months sponging off the people he stayed with. Long stays, usually with relatives, were common for the upper classes 20 or even 100 years before this. I'm thinking of Gone with the Wind and Downton Abbey. I'm glad that he somewhat regrets his long impositions according to his letter to Fielding.

It would be very difficult to use this book as a guide to a trip to the area today. Not just place names have changed. The places have changed greatly due to World War II destruction, Soviet rule and just the march of time.

I enjoyed the description of the Easter Saturday church service. It seemed rather festive and joyful compared to what I am more used to, deep mourning that day and night until daybreak on Sunday. I've never seen a stork and never knew that they have red legs.

Is his allowance 4 pounds or 6 per month? 4 pounds then is 281 pounds or about $350 now. No wonder he accepts all the hospitality he can get, $10-15 per day is not much to travel on.

Vicky wrote: "First, my intro bit...

I enjoy travel books because I enjoy travel, history, cartography... etc. I've read and enjoyed both Marco Polo's Travels and Ibn Battutah's Rihla. Polo was distanced from ..."

What a lovely answer. The thoughts about titles were esp helpful to me. I was going to go negative but instead your explanations work. I had not thought of myself as a particular fan of travel books until joining this group.

In thinking back, I do have a history.

I began by reading the travel books by solo circumnavigators. Beginning with Joshua Slocum’s Sailing Alone around the World(1890’s) and adding in names like The Great Sir Frances Chichester, Chay Blyth, Robin Lee Graham at the time the youngest solo sailor. Somehow I missed the first to attempt this non-stop: Sir William Robert Patrick Knox-Johnston (also the oldest). I sorta gave up on the topic once they started the annual solo sailor’s circumnavigation race. Kinda made an industry out of it.

Michael Crichton’s Eaters of the Dead lead me to Ibn Fadlan and along the way I got The Travels of Marco Polo - Volume 1 and it was easy to go for The Innocents Abroad / Roughing ItInnocents Abroad. Only now am I thinking of Alistar Cooke and as a travel author, and even Bill Bryson got his turn. Being from New Orleans I have to include Feet on the Street: Rambles Around New Orleans.

Among the things I like in most any book is to be taken somewhere I have never been, or being made to see the familiar in a new way. Being something of a nerd, I kinda lean towards real places and lots of factiods. I like when the writer is having a lot of fun and giving me a not on the $5 tour, but being in the middle of the real thing. So mark me as an arm chair traveler.

I am Ex Navy. I joined in part because I like being in new places. Not so much the journey to get there. OTOH were I to gain sudden wealth. I would travel. Given my age I want to travel safe an in style. Hardly the way to experience the real place.

Along with Rebecca West, I also think Joseph Roth wrote about some of this same region and from around the same pre WW II period.

As for our book:
Something about his 10 days in Budapest seemed rushed. Yes he visits castles and reads a lot, but something else was going on or maybe he - the writer detected too many repetitions.

Did anyone else notice he refused a ride to Budapest, but all of a sudden he has a horse to take him out? How and when did that happen?

On Hungarian:
in the 1970's I had the chance to attend two or three annual Hungarian Freedom Fighters Balls in Washington DC. I have and I think still can dance the Czárdás. Anyway the wonderful people who invited me to their party had a joke. Hungarian could only be the result of space invaders. Their argument was that no one had been able to link their language to any neighboring languages, so it has to be from another world.

On his ability to depend on the kindness of strangers. We have imagine Patrick as charming and adaptive. Take a moment to understand what is working for him.

His few mostly bare minimum letters of introductions, and calls ahead the process looks something like

You, the home owner, maybe middle class or upper. The call/letter is from someone you may remember, or towards whom there is some kind of favor due:

Dear Joe,

Sometime in the next few days a young English kid is going to show up. He will be dirty and show no outward signs of being other than 100s of other unemployed people on the road. He will not have much in the way of money and likely will know almost none of your language. He is pretty good with German and French and is a decent study when it comes to language.

He is a nice guy. I do not think he will go after the family silver or mess with the help. He is a good listener, respectful and washed and dressed (you provide the bath and the party clothes) he makes a good show at parties.

Please feed, house and entertain him. Up to you for how long , he can take a hint.

OK My foot work was never this good.
Are these the hats Patrick so wants to have?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFFmS...

That other post got me thinking about Sir Frances Chichester. Another of my nominations for
The most Interesting person in the world. His first effort to circumnavigate the earth solo was via flights in a De Havilland gypsy moth
image:
Much later he would make a bet , I think for a shilling and win a trans Atlantic solo sailing race. What I remember him for the most was his solo circumnavigation in a small sail boat, The Gypsy Moth. At the time he was about 65

The Lonely Sea and the Sky. Sir Francis Chichester

First topics: I have not read Pausanias, Carla. Whose translation would you recommend? I see both Peter Levi and W.H.S. Jones available. Also overlook my slip from Easter Saturday to Easter Sunday in my previous post. Hang around long enough and I will make a few more. Unlike some of my more infamous verbal transpositions (like mowing my legs and shaving the carpet and vacuuming the lawn) this written blunder actually makes a little sense, since I'm quite unfamiliar with the Catholic holiday practices. I see the Catholics have a whole Easter Saturday and Sunday weekend. Either way, Fermor woke up in the next chapter with a hangover and no good explanation of how he got there.

He says he is enjoying himself. I'm not so sure his hosts were too impositioned by his lengthy stays. I laughed uproariously at your comments Phrodrick. They remind me of some of Dostoyevsky's characters who often are revealed as bums sponging off the nobility. In exchange, the nobility often found themselves in possession of a retinue and someone to help bury the bodies in inopportune moments.

I am behaving myself and sticking to the schedule. Lol. Unusual for me, I know. I read chapters 2 and 3 today, and was surprised at the depth of history Paddy has given us already on the Balkans. He impresses me with what he seemed to know about Roman history, the Magyar advent in Hungary, the invention of stirrups... etc. I couldn't help but wonder how much of this information was added as editorial in later years, and how much was known or researched in his teens.

An interesting read on the topic I've enjoyed is The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World

Fermor is definitely traipsing through different and unfamiliar languages and religions now; from German, Hungarian, and Slav languages, to Catholic, Orthodox, and Calvinists. The conversation about comparing English to Persian was funny, but I was most interested in his comments about race relations. Not surprised at his fear of gypsies, and the bias mentioned against the Slovaks, I was surprised to see the eagerness with which he pulled in the politics of the region. Again, was this the 19 year old Patrick or the older gentleman? I'd guess it was the younger man, because quite simply politics changed so drastically later.

Either way, he was enjoying his travels.

"I sipped it slowly and thought: I'm drinking this glass of milk on a chestnut horse on the Great Hungarian Plain."

"Why was I ranging this beautiful landscape instead of familiar woods and hills in England, a thousand miles west?"

"The nuns were rather impressed when I told them my destination, and so was I."

That means so much to me in a travel book.

I think Fermor is a people person. He does mention nature a bit, but he gets to know the humans in his travels. And, once again I am laughing at the warnings he was given before heading into Romania.

Thanks for sharing the photos Phrodrick! I did think that was an awesome idea to ride a horse on the Hungarian plains. His friends were definitely pleased to be a part of helping him plan this great experience of a lifetime.

On Pausanias, I recommend and read WHS Jones. It was heavy going.

Fermor runs across gypsies several times. I wonder how many are left in Europe and if they are settled rather than nomadic now.

The Dear Joe letter was funny and probably lighter than those written about Fermor, but the same intent, to put him up for awhile when he passes through.

I really enjoyed Chapter 2 on Budapest. My husband went there for a convention maybe 10 years ago and we both visited in 2015. Our Danube River cruise ended with a day there and we stayed another 4. We weren't hosted in "just a townhouse" in Buda, but in a modern modest hotel in Pest. We didn't get invited to a ball, but I think we saw more of the city than he describes.
What he calls Coronation Church on Buda hill is now called Matthias Church, pretty impressive on the outside and so-so inside. He doesn't mention the subway or the extensive new gardens and museums built 30-40 years before for the 1000-year anniversary of King Stephen's coronation. Today, the people are friendly, the food is tasty and spicy and inexpensive, and the grime on the buildings is gradually being removed.

The pale cattle he sees are Hungarian greys.

I like his description of sweep-wells. I didn't see them in Europe, but as shadoofs in Egypt where they were used to tip water out of the Nile into irrigation canals.

Budapest is the only part of Hungary we saw, so it was handy to have maps at hand to follow his journey in Chapter 3. Bike polo sounds like great fun.

besides the Hungarian Freedom Fighters Ball I vaguely recall a Hungarian Restaurant near Washington DC. I think I got extra special treatment there because they were unused to anyone coming for dinner who was not Hungarian.
First time I knew paprika could be spicie
Bike Polo is clearly not for the faint at heart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRcL7...

That was another difference about Hungary: Tons of history and very little about architecture. OR churches

I am just in Chapt 4 but I think I can make it into 5 soon enough. In next to no time I just read over 30 pages. A sure sign of good writing.

Also agreed there are some hints of embellishments not from his original notes. Even he admits that this period was poorly covered in his notebooks. Can we invent the term travelers anachronisms?

I live in Portland, OR. There is an Hungarian restaurant in Albany, maybe 2 hours south. We have stopped twice when traveling that way. Killer baked goods. Lunch buffet heavy on sausage and meat.

I started Ch. 4 today and will read a bit more tonight.

Three passages stood out for me in Chapter 4. The opening paragraph is his dilemma on whether to declare, hide, or get rid of the small pistol. It's good he wasn't traveling by air these days.

I was intrigued about the construction of a hayrick (haystack) by winding hay around a post. I wonder if it is covered before winter. The annual rainfall in that part of Romania is quite low, about 25 inches per year. I grew up near the rain forest of Olympic National Park in Washington. We got about 80 inches of rain and my father and grandfather put their hay into barns and outbuildings.

The last paragraph is definitely written by the 70-year-old Fermor as he reflects on the families he met and their fates during after World War II and the fire that took his most recent hosts.

Travelin wrote: "Of all my complaints, it was that last paragraph which bothered me most greatly. It was too generic. Even if WWII took a lot of other people and places, he doesn't seem engaged in the losses at 19 ..."

I had all sorts of plans to disagree but at most my take is more a matter of degree than kind. There is a certain darkeness in chapter four, but the closing paragraph is too pro forma and impersonal. He liked these people. He definitely made an effort to trace and relocate them. But he owed his hosts something more than, to be honest less than a paragraph.

Had I more time it might be instructive to place Fermor's version of Austrian, Hungarian, Rumanian, Czech, Magyar , Moldavian and Wallachian and ?? history side by side with Rebecca West's. Clearly all these divisions and resentments were everyday topics in these regions. West , having something over 1000 pages in which to stretch out goes into more stories, more histories. For example she has more to say about the Turkish possession and the Jewish populations. Further her guide is a highly place government person with huge chips on his shoulders.

Black Lamb and Grey Falcon

Just looked up my first English word : machinated: arches under a battlement for raining down arrows or other weapons.

OTOH so many untranslated non-English phrases, many in languages too remote to assume might be easy for his readers to translate.

before we leave Chapt four. We do agree that Patrick and his Bachelor host visited a pair of ladies who were perhaps more than just friendly?

I have enjoyed chapter four probably more than any other. From the descriptions of the birds in the rookery, to the horseback riding, to the Biedermeier furniture, grand piano, and Tuscan columns of the country homes, to the stuffed lynx and antlers that figured everywhere so prominently; he seemed to concentrate much effort into producing, or rather reproducing the ambiance of those Summer days that seemed to haunt him over a half-century later.

The Audible is problematic here, not because of any deficiency in the recording, and the narrator does a superb job. Yet, in following Fermor's investigation through the Roman history and the racial and linguistic makeup of the country; invariably I found myself stopping the audio and re-reading large portions to absorb the depth of details. Usually, I would be so engrossed that I would forget to restart the audio, and then have to listen again to catch up with my new location in the book. And, at one point I even restarted the chapter to enjoy the flow of Fermor's ideas as a whole. He really is brilliant... both at 19 and at 70.

First, it's important to realize that though Fermor is quick to point out the Latin origins of the Romanian language; the largest percentage of speakers of Latin languages stem from the Ibero-Romance branch. Romanian actually stems from the Eastern Romance branch of Latin languages. This explains the different sound of the Magyar dactyls he'd enjoyed in Hungary and the contrasting sound of the Romanian. Patrick seemed filled with a xenophilic revelry of enjoyment of languages and peoples. Perhaps, that is why he did such a beautiful job at this point, because he was in his element, basking in the many languages and culture groups he was experiencing.

He does a great job of giving the translation of every local word he used. The only words not translated are mostly the Latin, which he seems to feel safe in assuming that most readers might recognize. And, there were a few words of French. I don't know Latin, but find it to contain many cognates within the Spanish that I can read. And, I can read about two thirds of the Koine Greek. But, French is a dizzying language, and so different from English pronunciations that I despair of even pronouncing French words on a page in phonetic English.

As to the history of the region: from the beginning of the chapter I was already marveling at the changes in the map (that green insert map from chapter one) and the different and changing borders. So, I was pleased to see him attempt to weave the path of changes between the races that lived here over the centuries before he passed through. He called the frontier there a tightly contested border, with much conflicted feelings between the residents. And, at one point he refers to the breakup of the feudal system in Romania and the current relationship between the locals and their deposed lords who'd had their land subdivided. These were intriguing glances into a changing era.

At one point he mentions the distrust of those living in Romania for those 'beyond the Carpathian watershed.' I am not sure he had an exact understanding of the geographic limits of the Carpathian Basin. Probably he meant only to say that those in Romania distrusted those within the Carpathian watershed... since almost all of that geological feature lies within Hungary. What he was doing was pointing out the conflicted feelings he had, having formed close bonds with families in both countries. So, he admits that during the war there would have been winners and losers, depending on the outcome. And, that seemed to tear at him. Most of that was revealed before the last paragraph.

(Interestingly, Carpathian Basin is a Hungarian term, and the Romanians call it Pannonian, as do the Slavs and Germans.)

Then in that last paragraph, when he dropped the bombshell of the burned house it ends the chapter with a horrific realization of how he must have felt knowing those moments were so important in his memories. I can understand how he felt. At the time of publication, tracing people anywhere in the world was still almost impossible. Even with today's social media and internet capabilities, I am unable to trace or locate friends I went to school with and knew as a young adult. It is as if they dropped from the face of the earth. But, I did discover that one of my first year of students in teaching fifth graders; a boy who I'd worried about to great lengths because I thought he had sickle cell anemia and couldn't convince his mother that there was a physical problem. But, I learned years later, read in a microfilm report that he'd been shot in a random drive-by shooting in that inner city area where he lived a few years later. What do you say about such a realization? What can be said? It impacted me greatly, but I am at a loss for words.

I found it humorous that the storks were not at home... as we only saw the storks' nest in chapter four. (They've been in every chapter so far.) But, Patrick describes the gold finches, house-martins, and several other birds of a feather; along with the smells of lilac, box, and lavender that filled his senses at the time. He admits at the top of page 95 that some editorial additions were added later in life for things that he hadn't understood at nineteen, but then he talks about days of studying the history of the region, and the German language study he was five months already into at that time.

Somewhere amid the Yiddish speakers at the beginning of the chapter, and the portraits of King Carol and Prince Michael I was transported back to Fermor's mention of Hungarian King Matthias earlier in the book. He really speaks of a sweeping panorama of leadership and peoples across the countries he visits. From the Romans, to Matthias of the middle ages, to the nineteenth century architecture and Biedermeier furniture of the preceding hundred years, to Carol and Michael in the twenties of that century... now much of his map is like a snapshot of history in the twenty-first century.

A couple of quotes I particularly enjoyed:

"The interpretations are as different as the work of two paleontologists, one of whom would reconstruct a dinosaur and the other a mastodon from the same handful of bone-fragments."

"Charm and douceur de vivre were still afloat among the faded decor indoors, and outside, everything conspired to delight. Islanded in the rustic Rumanian multitude, different in race and religion, and with the phantoms of their lost ascendancy still about them, the prevailing atmosphere surrounding these kastely-dwellers conjured up that of the tumbling desmesnes of the Anglo-Irish in Waterford or Galway, with all their sadness and their magic."

I intended to share the following poem after Fermor mentioned the Triremes in chaper two or three. It is one of my favorites, and Fermor's journey reminds me of it so much. It is a poem I am sure he would ahve liked...

'Cargoes'

Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
With a cargo of diamonds,
Emeralds, amethysts,
Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.

Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rails, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

John Masefield

Yes, I suspect that Paddy, his friend and the two girls did more than "wrestle" in the haystack, leaving straw in everyone's hair and the girls' braids undone. I wonder if he used their real names or renamed them? It's charming that he left something to our imaginations.

He definitely seemed to be having a great time everywhere he went. And his hosts seemed to enjoy hauling him around for his social clout. I don't think he overstayed his welcome. With women offering to "take care of him" he certainly seemed welcome. (Referring to the handkerchiefs here...but seemed to indicate more.) And then there was the gift of a gun. That was a surprising gift. He must have been popular with the women.

Seems a shame to break in with admin. so

First thanks for those long posts. Very much helped me get back some of my pleasure with Fermor. Part of why I like buddy reads is reading several points of view, but that and poetry? Life is good.

Back to the prosaic.
I think we should be past Chapt 5 by now and lets say finish 6 by Monday?

We are cruising over the 1/2 way mark

Anyone thinking about going on to book 3? Or is this too soon to say?

I've finished Ch. 5 & 6. I didn't enjoy 5 half as much as 4.

He has a long description of Vadjahunyad Castle and in the footnote mentions the replica in Budapest's City Park. We saw the replica on the island from the shore of the lake. We didn't go close or in because it houses the museum of agriculture which didn't sound interesting and we were, late in our vacation, suffering ABC syndrome (another beautiful or bloody castle or church). I have a few photos that show over-the-top ornamentation and several styles and materials.

I think I would have liked Count Jeno and Countess Tinka if I had met them.

He talks about summer fruit as cherries before strawberries and others. That's not the way it is around here. Strawberries are first. We have a few left in our patch, but we've moved on to raspberries and blueberries and, from orchards within 100 miles, cherries.

I'm not ready for book 3 yet, but would like to get there in the next few months. I've got to clear some of my other goals first, though.

I will hopefully finish chapter 6 by Sunday.

Of course, I would be willing to go directly into book 3 if the group decides that route. In other words, I'll accomodate.

Vicky wrote: "I'm not ready for book 3 yet, but would like to get there in the next few months. I've got to clear some of my other goals first, though.

I will hopefully finish chapter 6 by Sunday."

Sums up my situation as well.
I know I will read book 3, but when I have a clear path I may put his one novel first.

I am liking Chapt 5 and so far 6well enough. Tho it may be partial a result of getting a recharge from recent comments here.

Patrick as a lover, casual or conspiratorial is clearly distracted. Again comparing this with Rebecca West, her travels are much more goal driven so we get a lot about remote monasteries and the like. There is a lot more time with locals and not so much with titled ones.

He seems less aware of architecture, something I liked in book 1. Also again thanks to West I am more aware of the people with whom he does not interact. The Turks and Jews - for example are visible but only barely.

The coming war keeps crossing his path but , and I think this is very realistic, life at the moment makes these events seem far away and impossible to consider as harbingers. What is to come is nearly off the charts extreme

Speaking of what is to come. He is almost glib about all these different peoples and how their history's conflicted. Patrick has no hint that in fact many of these people are harboring all manner of resentments. I do not mean he should have known exactly what Kosovo would come to represent, or how many ways these tribes are yet to hurt each other, but he tells these histories with no notion that defeats carry forward in time and memory.

We end the lover's interlude and maybe he can get back to the best of his work.

Phrodrick wrote: "...Patrick has no hint that in fact many of these people are harboring all manner of resentments. I do not mean he should have known exactly what Kosovo would come to represent, or how many ways these tribes are yet to hurt each other, but he tells these histories with no notion that defeats carry forward in time and memory.

We end the lover's interlude and maybe he can get back to the best of his work..."


Phrodrick, do you think his state of mind at the time precluded him analyzing the subsequent events in light of these facts? He seemed so wrapped up in his time with Angela that that may be all he was ever able to think of when remembering things that took place there.


These chapters are very enjoyable, and fast reading. The days seemed to breeze by for him. I thought chapter 5 had much to laugh about. Some of the expressions, too were a bit unusual to me; like 'talking through one's hat,' and the nautical maxim 'Sail before Steam.' The one that was hard to place for me was the descriptive, '... touch of Evensong about him.' But, that was because the term seems archaic to me.

"It was all very different from the recent ambience of antlers and hooves and Tibor's memories of champagne out of dancers' slippers."

I noticed that my hardback copy had a misprint with Janus Pannonius as being from the 17th Century, instead of the actual place in the 15th Century... p.113. The Audible had that correct.

Though I knew a bit about Matthias Corvinus... I'd never heard of his father John Hunyadi, the Regent of Hungary. More to explore there.

But, the suggestion of the calf gift... what?!

I have so many mixed feelings about the Audible with Fermor's books. I think if I had to choose one or the other it would definitely be the print. But, I really enjoyed hearing the narrator sing the Hungarian rhymes at the end of chapter 5.

But, the Print offers so many additions, like the footnotes:

"At that time, Hungarian girls seemed to have cornered the international cabaret world; every night-club I can remember was full of them. Many sought fortunes abroad and I remember from a nineteenth-century Russian novel that the word Vengerka-'a Hungarian girl'-had an earthy and professional sense."

There were mentions of the Thirty Year War and the Winter Queen, and I think one of the Hitler references was to Krystal Nacht... though wasn't sure. And, the history of Vlad the Impaler and Dracula. He even went into the Transylvanian Saxons. But, all of this was probably superimposed in later years, because of his distractedness at the moment.

"There are times when hours are more precious than diamonds."

I'm going to include an image of that insert map here. It is a very interesting map, one that I keep looking back at, though it really does leave a lot of room for questions.

Yeah, well. That is one limited view of the map!
So, here's the imgur link for closer zooms:
https://imgur.com/a/xsGIOVp

And, One more admin question: When do we need to be ready for discussion of chapter 7 and or 8?

"some of the expressions, too were a bit unusual to me; like 'talking through one's hat,' and the nautical maxim 'Sail before Steam.' The one that was hard to place for me was the descriptive, '... touch of Evensong about him.' But, that was because the term seems archaic to me.

Talking though one hat is one I sorta grew up with, call it a barely less hostile version of pulling it out of you fundament.
'Sail before steam' is a nautical rule of the road. In the world of no super tankers, sailing ships typically have the right of way because their room to maneuver is limited to what the wind allows. In here it is a variation of: Age before beauty

As for the looming WWII, I think the tendency of the locals not in or too close to Germany or intl politics to ignore the bad news is totally legit. Many many people brag about not know what is going on. In the 1930's all kinds of people had their own reasons for ignoring the gathering storm.

Even song I mostly read in context.

What Turned into a fun look up was
A fox's wedding.

Turns out this is one of many similar variation the XXX's wedding and my favorite:
The Devil is beating his wife with a leg of lamb
What is means is rain falling on a sunny day.
Pure coincidence I was reading this Thursday night and Friday coming home from work I was in a fox's wedding. Not as dramatic. No birds tossed about... Still

Admin. I think the goal is we are done with 6 as of Monday and I am suggesting end of 8 by Friday. I have about 10 pages of post script, but that I will finish by then also.

In Chapter 6, I enjoyed his description of market day in a village. With his short sentences and fragments, you could feel the excitement and bustle or even chaos.

There was a rare passage complaining about travels woes: 2 flat tires in one day, road construction, waiting for a water buffalo.

He admits that Angela deserves more space than she gets. Maybe he is just being discreet.

I laughed at them racing the train back into Deva.

I've started Ch. 7 and will be ready to post about it Wed.

I breezed through Ch. 7 faster than expected.

I enjoyed his up-close encounter with deer. My brother and I each saw deer in the last few days.

Poor guy to walk all day in a circle! He seemed happy to end up back with Radu and Mihai for a second night.

I also enjoyed his description of watching golden eagles preen and then fly away.

I'm not ready to read Book 3 next. I haven't read Book 1 and should do that first.

With no desire to hold anyone back and less to stretch this out, I would not mind end of reading by Monday a week. I need to avg 10 pages a day to make that. Normally, and with this book that is not a prob, but life also happens.

The walking in circles rather confused me as much as it evidently did with him.

At the same time, not having either a compass, ETA opp sorry he did have a compass, we just have not heard of it in many pages- or any meaningful training for cross county walking, as soon as he left the hot flats to go up into the forest he would have to get lost.
I got no notion that he figured this out and proceeded differently. Did I miss something?

the Perseid shower is 2019 are now:
2019 the Perseid meteor shower is active between 17 July and 24 August:
The science of the shower:
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news...
last year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES4nu...

He has a compass, but he hasn't used it from the last day in Hungary when he needed to go cross country to the last train station.

I think he just walked and hoped for the best and was delighted to show up with the two fellows he spent the previous evening with. Fortunately, one started the next day with him and attempted to explain the next turns and landmarks so he wouldn't get lost again.

The Iron Gates
Short and Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZJj...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRbYJ...

Hungarian Crown Jewels

Phrodrick wrote: "The Iron Gates
Short and Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZJj...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRbYJ..."

That is an amazing view Phrodrick!! Thanks for sharing that.