The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

In this section, as William gets settled into his job as a teacher in the boys school, we learn more about his employer, M. Pelet. We also get introduced to more characters when William begins teaching at the girls' academy. And the boards on his windows are taken down!

Please feel free to comment on any of William's interractions with the following:

M. Paget

Mlle Reuter

The female students in the class which William teaches.

William expresses some distinct biases towards his students. Why do you think he does this?

Do you trust Mlle Reuter and M. Paget?

Who is the mysterious Mlle Henri? Do you think that Charlotte had similar experiences as a teacher in Belgium?

Mlle Reuter- I’m definitely left with the opinion that she is untrustworthy. Time and again when reading books from this era, I’m surprised at the smallest level of intimacy making an engagement “necessary” or else the woman’s reputation is ruined. Mlle Reuter is kind to William, walks in the garden alone with him, and gives him a flower when asked so he is furious at her for leading him on. As other readers have pointed out, William is very inexperienced with the ladies and tends to idealize them. This could also be a cultural misunderstanding as I believe continental women were less prudish than Victorian Englishmen found appropriate.

The female students- on one hand I like how Charlotte portrays them as human beings, not the kind of young girls found in novels. But I found the stereotypes really shocking, even though I knew that Catholicism was highly frowned upon. I guess it hadn’t been too many years since English wars were fought over Protestant vs Catholic succession but I wasn’t prepared for the virulence. I wonder how much of it was William’s and how much Charlotte’s beliefs shining through.

I wasn't impressed by the stereotypes either.

I wonder what things we believe today will be thought of as ignorant and misguided in 150 years. But it is amusing that William's dreams of lovely young ladies are thoroughly debunked.

I assumed that Mlle Henri had an English parent. Oddly, William never asks that and she volunteers nothing.

There is a mystery in Mlle Henri's background. Maybe William was too shy to ask directly, or he just couldn't be bothered.

I don't think it would be appropriate to ask Mlle Henri such a personal question if she didn't volunteer any information. Mlle Reuter may know something but isn't telling either. I look forward to finding out more! Mlle Reuter seems like someone who sees information as power and likes to dole it out in drips and drabs as a means of wielding power.

Tensions between Catholicism and Protestantism were stronger in my youth but certainly nothing like the level of prejudice Bronte displays here. It has been many years since I read Jane Eyre--does anyone recall anything said about Jane's student that would compare to this? She was at least by birth Catholic, wasn't she?

These views about people of other religions and nationalities seem like the kind of violently held beliefs of a young person who has led a sheltered life and is confronted with the "Other" for the first time. Both William and the author seem very immature in this section.

It did strike me that the moment William starts working part-time at the pensionnat des demoiselles he doesn't talk or think about his male students anymore. So although he affects to despise his female students he is certainly fascinated by them.

In general, his character seems more like Charlotte Bronte's fantasy man than any plausible person.

Abigail wrote: "I don't think it would be appropriate to ask Mlle Henri such a personal question if she didn't volunteer any information. Mlle Reuter may know something but isn't telling either. I look forward to ..."

You're right Abigail, they do seem immature. I don’t recall any religious prejudice comparable to this in Jane Eyre. But I think Villette is a later reworking of this material and might give some insight regarding Charlotte’s evolving views?

William as Charlotte’s “fantasy man” makes sense. LOL! What young woman who considers herself intelligent but rather plain wouldn’t love a man capable of looking beyond mere beauty to the value within? 😊

William seems to be a completely different kind of person than her brother Bramwell. I can't see William over-indulging in anything.

Rosemarie wrote: "William seems to be a completely different kind of person than her brother Bramwell. I can't see William over-indulging in anything."

Perhaps an incurable addiction to romantic sentiment? 😉

Maybe? 🤨

Well, he gave up his romantic fantasy quickly when he overheard what she really thought of him. At this point he doesn't seem romantically attracted to Mlle Henri (yet).

Abigail wrote: "does anyone recall anything said about Jane's student that would compare to this? She was at least by birth Catholic, wasn't she? ..."

I only remember her criticizing Adele because of the circumstances of her birth, not her religion but she certainly didn't sounds as harsh as she does here. I also remember her friend Helen that she had when she was younger ....... whenever Jane was set to criticize something or someone, Helen always brought out deeper insights that led to understanding, not judgement.

In the first section I thought William's relations with Hunsden showed his common sense in wisely not desiring someone to get the upper hand. In this section, this desire for the upper hand has developed into a bit of sadism at times. He not only seems "dour and judgmental," as Lori pointed out, but often intentionally cruel.
He describes plain but smart young girls as "ugly." Prior to praising Mlle. Henri, he first gets her to a state of "agitation and trembling" because "if she thinks she did a clever thing in composing that devoir, she will now look mortified." I understand the importance of a teacher keeping classroom control, but he overdoes it. William turns every relationship, not just teacher/student, into a contest that he is paranoid about losing.
I am still interested in the story of William, as he is an interesting if not overly-sympathetic character, but I wouldn't mind a little comeuppance for him.

This book certainly reflects a world in which the idea of equality has not taken firm root! Makes William seem more unsympathetic to us, though I suspect nineteenth-century readers would have focused more on his rectitude and willingness to sacrifice for principle, and would have taken the interpersonal power moves as simply the way things are.

I wonder how those readers would have regarded his self-confidence and lack of humility in light of his very modest position in the world. Bronte seems to want to have it both ways by positioning him not just as impoverished and having to work for a living but also as having aristocratic connections and an Etonian education. Self-made, yes, but with a big head start in life, and "gentleman" cred we are not supposed to question.

Abigail, I agree that what traits are considered virtuous is evaluated differently in various historical periods. William's harsh personal comments about certain characters are reminiscent to me of similar comments made by Woman in White's Marian, a character most readers find very likeable and sympathetic. Comments that one person considers cruel, another person considers merely forthright.

That certainly applies to Hunsford's style of speech!

I can understand the tone if not all the French words with my limited knowledge, so the non-translated French did not bother me during Villette or the first section.. However, in this section, I found myself wanting to understand the specific words used by the girl students, so the use of non-translated French did irritate me.
Robin, I appreciate your offer to translate but I hate to bother you and, if I want it bad enough, I'll type the phrases into an on-line translator.

Brian wrote: "I can understand the tone if not all the French words with my limited knowledge, so the non-translated French did not bother me during Villette or the first section.. However, in this section, I fo..."

I’m so happy I’m reading this on a kindle, I’m highlighting the French and then tapping on the highlighting which brings up several options one of which is translate. Some of those translations aren’t great, but between that and my high school French I’m getting it

Deborah, I'm a luddite. I am reading on my I-Pad and have never known you can highlight and translate. I just spent about 15 minutes looking how to do it on-line and just did my first translation of a passage. I hope I learn how to do it effortlessly.
So Thanks!

Brian wrote: "I can understand the tone if not all the French words with my limited knowledge, so the non-translated French did not bother me during Villette or the first section.. However, in this section, I fo..."

Yes, an online (or in-ebook) translator would work, as they are generally simple phrases. Interestingly, Mlle Henri uses some French constructions and idioms when speaking English, which is realistic.

Brian wrote: "Deborah, I'm a luddite. I am reading on my I-Pad and have never known you can highlight and translate. I just spent about 15 minutes looking how to do it on-line and just did my first translation o..."

Lol. I prefer a print book, but needed this one to be portable. I’m headed to Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and a stop in Berlin for the next two weeks. I just got lucky that it had this function.

Robin wrote: "Brian wrote: "I can understand the tone if not all the French words with my limited knowledge, so the non-translated French did not bother me during Villette or the first section.. However, in this..."

Some of the translations in the ebook aren’t great. My high school French has helped a bit

I had about a year and a half of French, so can understand about 70% of the French phrases, but I wish some of them had been translated (reading in a print book and too lazy to type into Google translate).

William is as judgmental as ever. As Jenny pointed out, Mlle Reuter had hardly encouraged him, so he has no right to be angry with her. And the way he talks about his students is just rude.

The internet can be helpful. I finally looked up "amour propre" since it was used so much. I thought Mlle Reuter was telling William not to make Mlle Henri fall in love with him. But "amour propre" means "self-esteem." I was way off!
(I'm on chapter 19 now, slowly catching up)

My sense is that it means kind of "pride" and "dignity" as well as "self-esteem."

Literally, it is love of oneself.