The Great American Read discussion

This is the spoiler thread for The Sun also Rises.

If you haven't read the book yet, turn around if you don't want to know too much!

This is the place to discuss anything you like about the book, including the ending.

I accidentally posted this in the pre-read thread, sorry about that (I deleted it, but I don’t know if anyone saw it)! It was a different time then. I’m over 100 pages in. Jake’s disgust for Robert Cohn is so clear and it makes sense as to why. He doesn’t see him as a true man because he has not seen combat like the other male characters have. And he doesn’t face death regularly like the bullfighters do. But Jake’s incredibly jealous, too. I feel terrible for him because of that. Right now, I’m at the part where he’s in Spain, fishing with his buddy, Bill, and I just love how Hemingway describes the country and the people. I was in Spain for inside of a week something like 18 years ago. I loved it.

Finished it yesterday, and I did enjoy the read. Sparse writing style, details of the list generation. My favorite part was definitely the descriptions of the fishing trip with Bill before the craziness ensues. I took this book in but by bit, and didn’t rush the read.

The book opens with a detailed history of Cohn as a fighter. All along I was wondering when this would come front and center to the novel—- and oh did it. Poor Cohn! Why did he behave so badly?!?!? Loved the food and wine and quiet parts of the novel.

I’m glad I read it, and may read more Hemingway in the future. Does anyone know what led to his suicide? Literary pressure? I’m guessing that his mental health was in poor condition...I don’t want to start Googling... because who knows where that rabbit trap may end. Thanks for reading along!!!

Kimberly wrote: "Finished it yesterday, and I did enjoy the read. Sparse writing style, details of the list generation. My favorite part was definitely the descriptions of the fishing trip with Bill before the craz..."

He’s one of my most favorite authors and I constantly look at things written about him. He had several health and mental things going on in his later years (including suffering several concussions and experiencing two plane crashes). With all of this research being done on traumatic brain injuries caused by concussions, it’s brought out another look at his actions later in life.

You can read more about it here: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articl...

I also recommend the book, The Trip to Echo Spring by Olivia Laing. It examines authors who were alcoholics. I found it extremely interesting.

Codie! Thank you so very much. The tidbits you add definitely shed a different light than the author bio at the end of the book. I will add the book to by TBR list.

I'm listening in the car and I'm reading about Cohn now. When I read The Paris Wife (bio-fic about EH and his first wife), I remember that this book led to a lot of bad feelings with some of his friends. Now I can see why! Cohn is based on a real person, and Hemingway didn't paint him in a nice light at all. He spared his wife, but I think she was just as put off by the fact that she wasn't represented at all, as though she were invisible.

NancyJ wrote: "I'm listening in the car and I'm reading about Cohn now. When I read The Paris Wife (bio-fic about EH and his first wife), I remember that this book led to a lot of bad feelings with some of his fr..."

I really need to read The Paris Wife!

All of the detail he goes into about Cohn’s boxing and life experience (which comes into play at a later point in the book), I thought it was really interesting to start the book that way. You could feel, at least with the boxing, that Jake didn’t believe he was experienced. Even when there was someone who could vouch for him.

Kimberly wrote: "Codie! Thank you so very much. The tidbits you add definitely shed a different light than the author bio at the end of the book. I will add the book to by TBR list."

You’re welcome!

Finished the book. I like Hemingway's writing style. Too often authors write as if more words are better. I am intrigued as to who the Lost Generation is. Ex-pat creative people? In the library digital book I have, there is a lot of information about Hemingway's life. The book seems very autobiographical to me.

The term is attributed to go to Gertrude Stein, who was part of Hemingway's circle in Paris. It refers to the people who were young adults during World War 1 and their inability to settle down after the war; they were asking themselves the big, existential questions. Their innocence had been lost, and the horrors of the war had not left them optimistic, so they were trying to find their way through life.

I think it's very autobiographical too. (Though I'm not done yet. I'm listening to it in the car.) Many writers, artists, and other creative types from American, Spain and other countries lived in Paris at this time. They spent their evenings drinking, pontificating, and sharing big ideas. (Which is sort of like my idealized memories of college.) I like Linda's description of their frame of mind.

NancyJ wrote: "I think it's very autobiographical too. (Though I'm not done yet. I'm listening to it in the car.) Many writers, artists, and other creative types from American, Spain and other countries lived in ..."

The basics came from other critics and good ol' wiki, but thanks! :D

I liked reading his "Moveable Feast", and I finally read Alice B Toklas, but could probably have lived without that one, because I don't know that I got that much out of it.

Gretchen wrote: "Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "The term is attributed to go to Gertrude Stein, who was part of Hemingway's circle in Paris. It refers to the people who were young adults during World War 1 ..."

Thanks Linda. There is such a sadness to that.
The scenes with Jake and Bill fishing seemed like a genuine time for them. It was my favorite part of the book.

I had a rough time with this book because I really didn't like Jake's (and therefore Hemingway's) personality/character. I don't like the way he treats his friends, and I've read that he hurt some people writing the book because it was clear who the characters were based on.

NancyJ wrote: "I had a rough time with this book because I really didn't like Jake's (and therefore Hemingway's) personality/character. I don't like the way he treats his friends, and I've read that he hurt some ..."

I think I mentioned that in the other thread, Nancy.
I'm not too crazy about him, either, so I'm going through it slowly. I'm at the point where he and Bill are fishing, and I think what most like about that is the description of the countryside. Since the dialogues are written in such a terse style (almost recalls the tough-guy talk of 40's detective films), to have a description of the valley and the towns is a beautiful reprieve.

I listened to the audio and that made it worse, because on audio, it was a tough guy describing scenery, as though he were describing a rock and a chair.

I still have the book so I'll go back to reread some sections....

you're right the scenery sections are quite nice. I'll reread some later sections too, but I'll skip over some of the conversations during the bullfights. (They were more brutal.)

What a difference print makes! This book is much better in print. Jake comes across more sympathetically than in the audio, but they all act like jerks. The people were more brutal than the bulls in some ways.

I did appreciate some the ironies and repeated themes in the book. In terms of the writing, I was most struck by the section about the man in Spain who considered himself (and Jake) true aficionados of the sport. I liked his definition of the word as someone full of passion for the sport. Hemingway's descriptions of his behavior were very interesting and though provoking to me. When Jake noticed him later, he seemed to disapprove of the whole lot of them.

I saw a book in the library with this title: Everybody behaves badly : the true story behind Hemingway's masterpiece The Sun Also Rises. I guess all the bad behavior is a social commentary on the lost generation?

NancyJ wrote: "What a difference print makes! This book is much better in print. Jake comes across more sympathetically than in the audio, but they all act like jerks. The people were more brutal than the bulls i..."

Dunno......I see a lot of this behavior (drinking, racial stereotypes, treatment of women, lack of constructive activities) in a lot of his books.......true, part of it could be due to what "made a man a man" in those days, but still.....and yet, there are some aspects of many of his works that I like. Huh. Maybe it's just that there's a lack of adventurous tales written by women at that time....