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Ariel
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Ariel by Sylvia Plath
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Looking forward to seeing what people make of this. I have decided to read two poems per day. I read the first two today. The second poem "The Couriers" is a blur. I will need to look into this one I think.
I was already planning on reading The Bell Jar this month so I'm looking forward to reading Ariel along side it.
I don't go near Plath any more, for my own mental health, but applaud those who do. I thought this short article was fascinating, including this excerpt:...in the 1980s, Plath’s former husband Ted Hughes authorized the publications of Plath’s complete poems—and included a little bombshell in the form of a list of Plath’s original sequence of poems for Ariel. Suddenly, scholars realized that there was more to the already fraught story. “The fact remains that Plath herself had arranged the future Ariel poems ‘in a careful sequence,’ plotting out every detail including the first and last words of the volume,” notes Marjorie Perloff in “The Two Ariels: The (Re)making Of The Sylvia Plath Canon.”
https://daily.jstor.org/sylvia-plaths...
Kristin wrote: "Thank you for sharing the article, Carol. It was interesting to me that Hughes chose to remove certain poems that he felt were not as strong. I am only a little ways into this collection, but I pre..."I worry about which edition I will get from the library. Still waiting though, and eager to read and join the discussion
It looks like I got the Hughes publication. Even though Goodreads indicates my edition as printed in 2006, and the Plath edition was reprinted in 2004, it looks like Hughes' edition continued to be published. I looked at the last poem and it did not end with "spring" as it would have if it followed Plath's desired outline as stated in Carol's article. I'm still interested in reading her poems but kind of feel like I'm missing the point now that I know she had a specific layout for the book and I'm reading someone else's re-shuffling of her work. Kind of like King James' bible, right?
Hello everyone. I am sorry for not having written right now. Sylvia Plath is an amazing writer, but her poetry can seem a bit obscure to those who, like me, are not used to read poetry very often. I personally I am enjoying a lot the imagery used in the poems even when I am not sure what is she trying to convey. The couriers are a fine example, I'm baffled by every line, it conveys some distrust as some of you said, but this website helped me understand a bit better: https://www.google.com/amp/s/genius.c...I propose that we should try to share our thoughts and interpretations of the poems that say something to us. What are your favourite poems? What do you think they are about?
Fer wrote: "Hello everyone. I am sorry for not having written right now. Sylvia Plath is an amazing writer, but her poetry can seem a bit obscure to those who, like me, are not used to read poetry very often. ..."I agree that some of her work seems obscure to me. But then I came across "Tulips" and it just seemed to connect with me, or I it.
As she's laying in a hospital bed, reflecting on how easy things are to just exist there. Not having to think or be anything, and how much she is enjoying the nothing. Then, she receives tulips, and they sit bright red in her room and distract her from her numbness and remind her of other people's love for her. It seems as if the reminder bothers her, because it reminds her of her duties to them, her husband and child, and however sadly, it is a burden to her. Perhaps emotionally and mentally.
To me, it is about depression and how being a wife and mother affected her depression, and how her depression affected her as a wife and mother - which was a vicious cycle - and how much she probably just wanted to find herself at moments like that, and how maybe she needed moments to be alone with herself in her life.
Kristin wrote: "@Liesl et al - I have started this one, too. I enjoyed "Morning Song," but I am completely confused by "The Couriers." Perhaps it is reflective of a severe depressive episode, where she cannot trus..."Kristin, I think it is a concise but extremely complicated work with so many different layers of meaning. I did a little digging online and found some articles about the Qabalah meaning of the imagery in the poem, as well as mythological and historical references.
Anita wrote: "It looks like I got the Hughes publication. Even though Goodreads indicates my edition as printed in 2006, and the Plath edition was reprinted in 2004, it looks like Hughes' edition continued to be..."I also have a Hughes publication. However, I'm not that worried about it. I found this article https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2.... After reading it, I feel that we might not be better reading her own version. Firstly, if she had delivered it to a publisher, an editor may have suggested changes to the poems anyway. We can't know what the finished product would have looked like under that alternative. Secondly, given the fact of her suicide, her proposed positive ending seems less fitting. A number of the poems that Hughes included at the end in their place were written by Plath just before her death and are considered to be superior to the poems that she had included.
If I have time, I will try to read the ones he removed so that I can draw my own conclusion but for now, I am going to continue with the edition that I have.
Fer wrote: "Hello everyone. I am sorry for not having written right now. Sylvia Plath is an amazing writer, but her poetry can seem a bit obscure to those who, like me, are not used to read poetry very often. ..."I was a little worried when I read "Morning Song" because it reminded me a lot of the tone of "The Bell Jar" and I was underwhelmed by that work. There is something very detached about the way she describes the birth of her child. For the first few stanzas, the child is always an object: a fat gold watch, a new statue.
Thankfully, I read "Lady Lazarus" and found that poem fascinating. At first I thought it was very biographical but I read that in a radio interview Plath said that the poem is about a woman with the terrible gift of being reborn. It is a terrible gift because she has to die first. The poem seems to be about inhumanity, violence and destruction. There are references to Hitler, his experimenting doctor, the dentists that scavenged gold from the teeth of the dead in the Concentration Camps. I felt a little uncomfortable with the description of her skin "Bright as a Nazi lampshade" and her face "a fine Jew linen". Did anyone else feel uncomfortable with these lines?
I'm still sticking with my 2 per day plan so have a long way to go before I can suggest a favourite.
Anita wrote: "Fer wrote: "Hello everyone. I am sorry for not having written right now. Sylvia Plath is an amazing writer, but her poetry can seem a bit obscure to those who, like me, are not used to read poetry ..."I think that is an excellent summary of the poem, Anita. Her imagery in this poem is incredible. There are many lines that evoke a sense of insomnia, anxiety and even a desire for death. "Propped my head between the pillow and the sheet-cuff" made me think of a body lying in a coffin. As with "I only wanted to lie with my hands turned up and be utterly empty".
Liesl wrote: "Thankfully, I read "Lady Lazarus" and found that poem fascinating. At first I thought it was very biographical but I read that"I had always assumed "Lady Lazarus" was about her failed suicide attempts. Biographical or not, I do love the last stanza, "Out of the ash/ I rise with my red hair/ And I eat men like air." It feels as if the woman is coming away from this terrible thing and becoming a conquerer.
Liesl wrote: "The poem seems to be about inhumanity, violence and destruction. There are references to Hitler, his experimenting doctor, the dentists that scavenged gold from the teeth of the dead in the Concentration Camps. I felt a little uncomfortable with the description of her skin "Bright as a Nazi lampshade" and her face "a fine Jew linen". Did anyone else feel uncomfortable with these lines?..."Yes I was confused and uncomfortable when I first started reading Lady Lazarus. I read that she was a strong advocate for Holocaust rememberence and I get the impression that she is referencing the rebirth of history through violent men and their actions, although I do think it ended on a note of rebellion and activism - in the last stanza as Karissa quoted above this comment.
Anita wrote: "It looks like I got the Hughes publication. Even though Goodreads indicates my edition as printed in 2006, and the Plath edition was reprinted in 2004, it looks like Hughes' edition continued to be..."@Anita, this wiki page identifies (a) the poems in the 1965 edition, (b) asterisks the ones Hughes added, which were omitted in the 2004 edition, and (c) lists the poems omitted by Hughes in 1965 and added to the 2004 ed., in a really easy format to review/use. I'm impressed with the amount of time and effort the volunteer who assembled this put in to it and am thankful for anonymous angels interested in womens lit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(...
The Poetry Foundation offers a 21 minute podcast (free) entitled, "50 Years of Ariel", subtitled, the Legacy of Plath's Posthumous Classic. It offers some clips of Plath reading excerpts of several poems, which I find breathtaking. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/podc...
As an aside, her voice didn't sound at all as I've imagined it, which goes to the limits of my imagination, starting with, she's not had a Brit accent in my imaginings. (I mean, duh, what kind of idiot am I?)
Carol wrote: "The Poetry Foundation offers a 21 minute podcast (free) entitled, "50 Years of Ariel", subtitled, the Legacy of Plath's Posthumous Classic. It offers some clips of Plath reading excerpts of several..."Thank you for this Carol! It's lovely to hear an author read their own works. I'm still slowly working through Ariel. I've read that Plath always wanted lots and lots of children, but honestly from her poems I don't get that impression. Perhaps the social constructs that dictated her level of success based on motherhood and wifehood were a much larger contributor to her depression than the lack of a dozen babies. Sometimes, commiserating with any of her work brings me a bit low. So slow and steady I go. The Bell Jar, being about depression, didn't even really affect me like some of these poems do. I am going to look for a good biography that tells more about Plath than "she suffered with depression," as I've noticed some of her poems reflect on Jewish traditions and Holocaust remembrance
Carol wrote: "The Poetry Foundation offers a 21 minute podcast (free) entitled, "50 Years of Ariel", subtitled, the Legacy of Plath's Posthumous Classic. It offers some clips of Plath reading excerpts of several..."Carol, this was truly wonderful. Her poems are powerful and made even more so by hearing them read in her voice. I can feel the force and passion and energy.
Thank you for sharing this.
I'm glad you both enjoyed the audio clip. @Anita, I agree with you that i'd like to know more about her than, yes, she was depressed and ended her life. I hadn't even realized she was Jewish until doing some research and, honestly, I'd have thought I'd have run into basic bio info earlier in high school or college when I first encountered her. It's as if her story has been limited to, "hugely talented - died young and tragically - Ted". If you find a biography such as you describe, come back and share the title, please.
I am reading the 1979 reprint of the 1965 Faber edition.The first three poems didn't appeal to me, but I find I'm still loving "The Applicant", on which strength I bought the collection back in the day, if I recall correctly.
I'm still plodding along at my 2 poems/day pace (more or less). I find myself a little torn over this work. There are some amazing poems in the collection, and there are also some really awful ones. I still have 10 to go, many of which were not in her original manuscript for Ariel. I read "Little Fugue" today and I can completely understand why Ted Hughes included it.
Kristin wrote: "I found a clip of Plath reading Berck-Plage. There is a bonus line in section 3.Regarding her accent, I believe it is not a British accent but a Bostonian one. I live in Boston now and visited a ..."
It's a combination, IMO. According to various online resources, she and Ted split their time between the US and England during the 6 years they were together, so I was hearing the British indicators for the first time. Boston is indeed a home for a wide range of accents, and I've spent a good deal of time there for work, plus my dad's family were from Marlboro, Mass. In any event, it's always interesting when someone sounds different from what you'd long-imagined. : )
Carol wrote: "Kristin wrote: "https://youtu.be/F4O6XT7BJ58"I like this!"
Ditto. Thank you Kristin. I kept searching on YouTube and found a compilation of quite a few of her readings from Ariel, and listened to "Daddy" on which a great case was made in Carol's previous linked post from the Poetry Foundation about how some of Plath's work can and has been held up as purely biographical, which is true because when I was reading "Daddy" I completely fell into wondering about her relationships with her dad and husband. Was her dad a fascist in the true sense of the word? How horrendous must he have been for her to remember him so bitterly if he died when she was only 10? Needless to say, their point was proven.
I was looking forward to watching Sylvia. after finishing this, but kind of lol'ed when the man from the Poetry Foundation podcast said, "...I don't recommend it." I will honestly probably still watch it.
Like many of you, I honestly find much of the poetry underwhelming, or at least I don't connect with, or even understand it. It was still beautiful to hear her read some works, and even helpful to understand context by her voice. But there are just some, such as "Tulips" that I really connected with immediately, and others like "The Applicant", and "Daddy" that I really enjoyed hearing her read. Some poetry is just like that for me, I need to hear it to understand the context of the feelings within it.
As for her voice, it reminded me of old movie starlets like Vivien Leigh and Audrey Hepburn, as well as my best friend's mother who was from upstate New York. Very clipped and precise. Quite lovely.
Just finished the book, but will have a listen to the link later. I didn´t read it with the aim of understanding it all, but just loved the stream of words. That may well be because English is not my native tongue, though I had a German translation in the same edition that sounded more wooden to me.
I had the impression that some of her poems (in the later part of the book) were about birth, her children etc.
I´ve got the film at home, but still have to watch it - though I heard different things about it. ;)
I have just finished. It is not a collection that you can simply read as you would a book. It is one that requires close reading in order to truly engage with Plath's work. It is also a very sad and tortured work. I have been digging up a few articles to read a bit further. If I find anything interesting, I'll attach links.
For me, some of the better poems are the ones that she did not intend to include in this collection. Out of those poems, I particularly enjoyed "Years", "Totem" and "Edge". Of the poems she intended to include, I thought "Tulips" and "Cut" were wonderful.
Ariel
When Sylvia Plath died, she not only left behind a prolific life but also her unpublished literary masterpiece, Ariel. Her husband, Ted Hughes, brought the collection to life in 1966, and its publication garnered worldwide acclaim. This collection showcases the beloved poet’s brilliant, provoking, and always moving poems, including "Ariel" and once again shows why readers have fallen in love with her work throughout the generations. (Goodreads)
Sylvia Plath
Sylvia Plath was an American poet, novelist, and short story writer.
Known primarily for her poetry, Plath also wrote a semi-autobiographical novel, The Bell Jar, under the pseudonym Victoria Lucas. The plot parallels Plath's experience interning at Mademoiselle magazine and subsequent mental breakdown and suicide attempt.
Along with Anne Sexton, Plath is credited with advancing the genre of confessional poetry initiated by Robert Lowell and W.D. Snodgrass. Despite her remarkable artistic, academic, and social success at Smith, Plath suffered from severe depression and underwent a period of psychiatric hospitalization. She graduated from Smith with highest honours in 1955 and went on to Newnham College, Cambridge, in England, on a Fulbright fellowship. Here she met and married the English poet Ted Hughes in 1956. For the following two years she was an instructor in English at Smith College.
Plath took her own life on the morning of February 11, 1963. (Compiled from Goodreads, click the author link to read more)
Fer to lead the discussion