Hungarian Literature Club discussion

I've just finished Poor Plutocrats by Mór Jókai. Here is my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Now I will take things to Renaissance Italy with The Book of the Courtier by Baldassare Castiglione. My purpose is to equip myself to transplant Chinese stories to Italy, which may be a more reader-friendly setting.

Well, The Book of the Courtier is not bad, but I just ran into a long passage concerning the pros and cons of speaking and writing in the local Tuscan dialect, which I doubt will change the way I feel about life.

I will go back to Fatelessness by Imre Kertész, which I was reading before I switched to Poor Plutocrats, and I hope I can weather the depressing tone.

Incidentally, I've been researching Mór Jókai and find that everything of his on Amazon is a reprint, which I don't like. I'll have to get his books via inter-library loan. Can anyone recommend a good book of his to read, after Poor Plutocrats?

I hope you've already read Jókai's bestseller book:
https://www.bookdepository.com/Barons...
It is considered one of his bests and it's mandatory in Hungarian schools to read it.

Besucher wrote: "I hope you've already read Jókai's bestseller book:
https://www.bookdepository.com/Barons...
It is considered one of his bests and it's mandatory in Hungarian sc..."

Thanks very much. I will read it next.

I have finished Fatelessness. Here is my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I finished the Taiwanese book The Old Capital: A Novel of Taipei.

In the mood for an epic adventure, I sought out Hercules, My Shipmate by Robert Graves, and I think I'm in for the whole voyage.

My library has The Star Gazer by Zsolt Harsányi. It seems interesting, and I'll make that my next Hungarian book. After that, I'll order The Baron's Sons by Mór Jókai, as per Besucher's suggestion.

Following your recommendations, I am now reading The baron's sons and am loving it. Thanks, friends!

I finished The Baron's Sons.

Could someone please tell me about the character Fritz Goldner? Is he supposed to be merely a tragic incompetent, or is he actually a traitor? I suppose his name would imply that he is bought off by money, but I'd like to know what you think -- and what your grade school teachers think; you did say you were required to read this in school, yes?

Anyway, thanks to several of you for recommending it.

FYI, I will read something non-Hungarian and then read The Star Gazer.

Harry wrote: "I finished The Baron's Sons.

Could someone please tell me about the character Fritz Goldner? Is he supposed to be merely a tragic incompetent, or is he actually a traitor? I suppose his name woul..."

Hello. :) I'm so glad you're so interested in Hungarian literature. Especially as I'm a teacher of literature myself. :)

I teach at a secondary school, and The Baron's Sons is usually read at primary schools, when the students are about 13 years old. (Way too early for them to read such a huge novel, if you ask me. Curricula are changing, even if very slowly, and other books are taking its place.) So I don't know how it is usually taught, and I can't even tell you how it was taught in my childhood, because my teacher chose to discuss another novel by Jókai with us. I read The Baron's Sons, though, at least twice, when I was a child, and loved it.

So I can only tell you my own opinion about what you're asking, and even that comes from at least twenty years ago. If my memory serves me right, I saw Goldner as someone tragically deceived. At that time "incompetent" made no sense to me, so I should re-read the book in order to be able to answer that question. I didn't see him as a traitor. I might when I re-read it as an adult. If I do so, I'll watch out. :)

I don't think you'll ever find a Hungarian who sees him like that, but - mind you - that's not because of the book. It's because of the film version. There's a marvellous film adaptation of The Baron's Sons, with the best actors of the sixties, itself a classic. It's still popular, and shown on TV at least once a year (usually on 15 March). Most people know it much better than the book. And it definitely shows Goldner as a tragic figure, madly in love, and betrayed.

One more thing: I'm so glad you enjoyed reading The Baron's Sons, but I have a faint suspicion that you haven't read the whole book. :( It looks much shorter to me in English than in Hungarian, and as you know and complained about it, it's a reprint of a very old translation. I think it MAY have been cut.

The book I was required to read at 13 was The Man with the Golden Touch. It's usually discussed at secondary school, with 16-year-olds. At the moment I'm re-reading it, for I'm teaching it in three weeks. I'll write a review about it to Goodreads both in English and Hungarian. Now that's a book which most certainly WAS heavily cut when translated. Which is an abomination in the case of Jókai's best books. They are rather lengthy, but every single word has a reason to be in its place, and should never be removed, or else the symbolic structure of the book will suffer.

Dear Krisztina,

Thanks very much for your reply!

Perhaps 'incompetent' was too strong a word for me to use. I've re-read the chapter called (in English) 'The Reverse of the Medal' (which is a puzzling name for the chapter), and it seems to me that Fritz Goldner is simply unequipped to handle the mob of angry people. He says that he is wise to the Plankenhorsts, so at least he is not naive. Richard respects him and calls him a 'brave fellow,' and I think that Richard would have seen through a traitor.

Probably, Jokai is suggesting that Richard's forceful way of dealing with the mob is better than Goldner's wordy way or Hugo Mausmann's (mouse man's?) humorous way. My understanding of the events of 1848 comes from Revolutions of 1848: A Social History, which is not entirely about Hungary. It seems to me that the 1848 revolutions started out with liberal aims and quickly developed socialist ones. In The Baron's Sons, the 'Reverse of the Medal' chapter perhaps is focusing on the moment when the uprising becomes more radical, and Goldner and Mausmann represent the liberals who can no longer control it.

You were right to suspect that my version was abridged. It's Percy Favor Bicknell's translation, published by L.C. Page in 1900. Bicknell admitted to cutting out many plot lines he viewed as tangential. The book is beautiful in appearance, however. These days, you have to be careful to avoid cheap scanned reprints, with misprints, no pagination, and anachronistic fonts.

Again, thanks so much for your posting. I'm thrilled to have your insight!

Dear Harry,

I'm glad you found it useful. :)
I'm not sure if Goldner and Mausmann represents anyone... but then again: I read the book as a child. I might see them in a different light nowadays. I still like reading Jókai (although for very different reasons than when I was a child), and I do feel like re-reading it sometimes. :)
And it makes me quite depressed to hear that there are no new translations of his books into English. If I had more time and energy than I have now, re-translating Jókai would be an important concern of mine, that's for sure. (Even though my English would need a lot of polishing for that, too. The vocabulary he uses is extraordinary. I don't feel like I could easily produce it in another language at all. But I might be a useful member of a team of translators,)

Dear Krisztina,

Please let me know if you do produce any translations.

I'm glad I set up this group: I've enjoyed reading Jókai and the others anyway, but it's more fun to have the insight of nice people like you.

Which of Jókai's novels do you think I should read next, after Poor Plutocrats and The Baron's Sons? Also, are you familiar with The Star Gazer by Zsolt Harsányi? It is in my school library.

I'm now reading When the Emperor Was Divine for school. I'm not sure if I should work in a Hungarian book when I'm done. Perhaps you have the same problem I do: It's not enough to find the perfect book to read; I have to find the perfect sequence of books to read.

And now I've had my Sleepytime tea and wish you good night.

Unfortunately, I haven't read anything by Harsányi. :(

By Jókai, I can recommend you The Man with the Golden Touch, but you can wait until I write my review to make sure you'll be interested. Anyway, I think if you can find anything unabridged by him in English, read it. Honestly, it's a mistake to abridge his books. :(

I have found the perfect sequence of books to read. :) What I can't find is the time to read them all...

If you want a Hungarian book really worth reading, read The Door by Magda Szabó. It's a modern classic, and the translation is fine. It was an award-winning book, that's why it's been translated into at least ten languages. It deserves being widely read. It's about friendship and betrayal. And if you like reading about people concerned with honour, it's just for you.

Timár_Krisztina wrote: "Unfortunately, I haven't read anything by Harsányi. :(

By Jókai, I can recommend you The Man with the Golden Touch, but you can wait until I write my review to make sure you'll be interested. Any..."

Liszt's biography by Harsányi, the Hungarian Rhapsody was a quite a good read - at least 25-30 years ago. Worth a try.

Timár_Krisztina wrote: "Unfortunately, I haven't read anything by Harsányi. :(

By Jókai, I can recommend you The Man with the Golden Touch, but you can wait until I write my review to make sure you'll be interested. Any..."

"The Man with the Golden Touch" sounds like a James Bond film...:-)

"The Man with the Golden Touch" sounds like a James Bond film...:-)

That's exactly why I hate this title. :) If they had asked me, I would have called it "The Man of Gold" or something like that. And yet it's still a much better translation than the others, because the others contain spoilers and are pretty cliché.

fióka wrote about Harsányi Zsolt's book Hungarian Rhapsody.

Thanks, fióka. I will try it (but I will have to ask my library to order it).

Timár_Krisztina wrote: "Unfortunately, I haven't read anything by Harsányi. :(

By Jókai, I can recommend you The Man with the Golden Touch, but you can wait until I write my review to make sure you'll be interested. Any..."

Thanks, Krisztina. I'll see if the Golden Touch works on me.

As for The Door, I've had my eye on it for a while, some of my friends have read it, and my library has it; but I've been putting it off. I've got the impression that the tone will be more negative than the Szerb and Jokai stuff I've been enjoying. Of course, I'll work it into my sequence, maybe after the Harsanyi.

Harry wrote: "fióka wrote about Harsányi Zsolt's book Hungarian Rhapsody.

Thanks, fióka. I will try it (but I will have to ask my library to order it)."

I wasn't sure if there was actually a translation of the book but then I have checked it and yes, there is one. It was published in 1955. Might be a bit hard to find a copy but not impossible. Hopefully you will enjoy the read.

I've got the impression that the tone will be more negative than the Szerb and Jokai stuff I've been enjoying.
The tone is pretty negative, even bitter in most books by Magda Szabó. That's why I don't like them in general. This one, though, is an exception. It's very far from being cheerful, but it does have a wry kind of humour, and the protagonist (not the narrator!) is easy to like.

Of course, The Door is on my list. It's just of question of how to sequence it.

BTW, you've brought up the issue of translation, so are there alternatives to "The Reverse of the Medal" which is the name given to Chapter 13 of The Baron's Sons? I can't figure out what "The Reverse of the Medal" might mean. Does it mean "the ugly side of 1848"?

No, it's just an awkward translation of a Hungarian idiom which means something like "when you look at the same thing/story from a different perspective." It seems no one told the translator that the phrase doesn't work in the same way in English.

Thanks, Ms. Krisztina. (How does one address a teacher in Hungarian?) That's very helpful.

Krisztina is my Christian name (can't say "first name", because we say our names in a different order :)). In Hungarian, students usually say "teacher" when they want to address a teacher, adding "madam" or "sir" at secondary school. ("Madam teacher" would sound really silly in English, wouldn't it? :)) At primary, they add "aunt" and "uncle" to "teacher", which would sound even more strange in English, but that's what young children are supposed to call all adults in Hungary, not only teachers.
But don't worry about it at all, the internet has its specific etiquette. :) You can address people politely in several different ways. :)

Thanks!

I knew your Christian name was Krisztina. In the American South, it's OK to say Ms. Krisztina or Mr. Harry. It's a way to be respectful and familiar at the same time.

I see. I didn't know that, so now it's my turn to say thanks for the insight. :)

I've finished re-reading The Man with the Golden Touch:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Your review is amazing. I can't wait to read the book.

Harry wrote: "Your review is amazing. I can't wait to read the book."

:)))

I'm not actually reading this, but the English translation will be published next year, in London. Thought you might be interested, he's a contemporary Hungarian writer.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...

Thanks, Fioka. It looks like a very light read. :)

Actually, I miss Hungarian literature after being away from it for a few weeks. Maybe I should work something in sooner rather than later. The Milanese history I'm reading now is not tremendously inspiring.

Harry wrote: "Thanks, Fioka. It looks like a very light read. :)

Actually, I miss Hungarian literature after being away from it for a few weeks. Maybe I should work something in sooner rather than later. The Mi..."

You're welcome, Harry.
This uninspiring Milanese history made me giggle :)). Just put it away then and start something more interesting. Life is short and there are so many good books to read, they say (and they are right).

On the good advice of Ms. Fioka, I will divert from Milan to Inheritance from Mother, set in Japan. Then maybe I'll return to Hungary via the USA.

Harry wrote: "On the good advice of Ms. Fioka, I will divert from Milan to Inheritance from Mother, set in Japan. Then maybe I'll return to Hungary via the USA."

:))) Have a most pleasant journey!

I finished Inheritance from Mother. My review contains the following half-baked observation:

"It seems to me that Japanese writers best capture the essence of modern bourgeois life: culturally amalgamated, materialist, and reflective, if not spiritual. Perhaps I am reading different literatures in search of different facets of the human experience in time. If Japanese novels are the best representations of the present, it is in European (especially Hungarian) literature that I find the most homesick remembrances of the past. American literature is where I turn for liberating visions of the future – which seem, ironically, to have been most vivid in the past."

I'll now turn to Life of William Grimes, the Runaway Slave for an American experience and then return to Hungary.

BTW: Autumn has finally come to Alabama, and I hope all of you are enjoying cooler weather and autumnal feelings as much as I am.

Ervin Lázár: Arnica the Duck Princess, in Anna Bentley's excellent translation :::
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Dani wrote: "Ervin Lázár: Arnica the Duck Princess, in Anna Bentley's excellent translation :::
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Thanks, Dani. This looks like a sweet story.

Harry wrote: "Dani wrote: "Ervin Lázár: Arnica the Duck Princess, in Anna Bentley's excellent translation :::
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Thanks, ..."

indeed it is - and also a generationally embedded story, something most kids growing up in the 80's (and hence: their kids etc) know from their childhood. it was also recorded on a vinyl children's record, possibly from a radio play though I'd have to check on that - anyway, it was massively popular back in the state socialist day, being one of those masterpieces done by really great authors: the children's / young adult books scene was far less prone to censorship, and since most of Hungary's prominent authors couldn't get their main works published (or had them censored), this was a big outlet of class-A creativity at the time. ironically, there's been a fall in the literary status of children's lit, apparently this tradition's been forgotten, and you're required to be a 'proper' adult's author to be considered part of the lit crowd. the stories do live on though, undiminished.

I'll order Arnica, The Duck Princess for my school library.

In the meantime, I've finished my detours through Japan and America and have now returned to Hungary with The Star Gazer by Zsolt Harsányi. I'm enjoying it so far.

Harry wrote: "I'll order Arnica, The Duck Princess for my school library.

In the meantime, I've finished my detours through Japan and America and have now returned to Hungary with [book:The Sta..."

Oh, Galilei's life? It must be interesting :).

Yes, according to the book, he had a somewhat troubled childhood, but everything is illustrated wholesomely so far.

Harry wrote: "I'll order Arnica, The Duck Princess for my school library.

In the meantime, I've finished my detours through Japan and America and have now returned to Hungary with [book:The Sta..."

that's a great idea, I'm so glad to hear there'll be kids reading this from their library :)

another shameless plug:
these just came out online, I did a quartet of translations from László Bödecs, contemporary talent :::
https://hlo.hu/new-work/laszlo-bodecs...

Dear Dani,

Thanks! Please keep us posted. I'll track these down.

I'm glad to see more people joining this group. I'm sorry I have not posted in a while, but The Star Gazer is quite long. I'm about two thirds through it. It's engaging (Galileo spends most of his time trying to forestall attacks by cultivating allies among churchmen), but it doesn't have anything to do with Hungary, and it doesn't feel like Hungarian literature. The settings are not painted with the love that a Hungarian writer would typically bring to bear on his own land.

It's getting Christmassy where I live, and I hope you are all having cozy Decembers.

Harry wrote: "I'm glad to see more people joining this group. I'm sorry I have not posted in a while, but The Star Gazer is quite long. I'm about two thirds through it. It's engaging (Galileo spe..."

I haven't read the book, and I don't know anyone who has, because it doesn't appear to have been re-published in Hungary since WWII. So I'm only talking in general terms. But Hungarian historical novels about foreign cultures are usually either meant to entertain (and nothing else) or connected with Hungarian history in metaphorical terms only. And as it was first published at the end of the 30's, it might have something to do with the relationship of an intellectual with the current political power, and the possible ways to resist. But I'm not sure. If it was so, it would have been re-published in the 50's and 60's.

Dear Krisztina,

Thanks for your comment. What you suggest about the political context of the book is very intriguing....

While reading last night, I realized that Galileo is being portrayed as an impractical enthusiast, someone who gets so interested in something that he forgets nearly everything else. I can feel the tragedy building, as the book heads toward its conclusion.

Harry wrote: "Dear Krisztina,

Thanks for your comment. What you suggest about the political context of the book is very intriguing....

While reading last night, I realized that Galileo is being portrayed as an..."

I've just realised I forgot to answer this... sorry...
What you're saying is interesting because it can explain why the book wasn't reprinted after the war. The political situation (a dictatorship with the ideology of the extreme left) of the 50's, 60's and 70's determined the way history was supposed to be portrayed in literature. Galileo had to be shown as a hero of science, resisting the tyranny of the church, whether it was so in reality, or not. (It was not.) Galileo as an impractical and forgetful enthusiast was the last thing the directors of literary life wanted to see.

By the way, I've just written a review in English about another Hungarian classic:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Dear Krisztina,

Happy New Year!

Your remarks about The Star Gazer were pretty accurate. The book seemed to mock Galileo a bit for his excessive optimism in politicking. He thought that if he befriended the right influential people, then he would be able to publish anything. In fact (of course), the system was arbitrary and the egotistical Pope Urban took personally Galileo's satire, landing G. in the hands of the Inquisition.

The only thing I can't figure out is: The book was published in 1939; was it Hitler or Stalin or both or neither that the book was supposed to be warning people about?