Think [the box] ing discussion

When you see or think of someone or a group of people who appear to not be the same as you, do you see differences?

Do we really see ourselves as that different? Should we?

For example, do you see first an Arab or a Muslim (or black person or white person or oriental or whatever "other" than exactly what ye are) or do you first see another human being, just as you are..? Does it matter?

Do we desire comfort of "the tribe"? Perhaps literally?

The problem must be when people's (conditioned? or natural?) fears are played upon by elite powerful forces, for their end, not the "other" persons, nor yours.

A short video montage on youtube, called, 'stop seeing an 'enemy' every time those in power tell us there is one', that questions us on this very thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyJJQ...

I try very hard to see the similarities first, but most of the time, I see the differences first. I really don't see either one clearly until I get to know them better. Then I look for the similarities and differences on the inside, which is what really counts in my book. I have a lot of fears surrounding people, but I know why. It has to do with my childhood.

yah-everyone's a stranger at first
and i judge trustworthiness, personality etc. on
apperances
for instance sir seek
when i first saw your orb it was a little unsettling
and your prose is so measured and precise
at least those i first encountered that i was chilled while impressed by your intelligence
my impression was that you were older than your profile
i've since seen some humor and self deprecation in certain of your posts so the initial impression has softened
i also assumed you prefer to watch people and events, distanced detached all because of the quizzical, piercing eye
I went around as the book person like andi for a while, to shield my identity and i find the book people obscure and somewhat personalityless, generic
in general i make all sorts of semi accurate impressions of people based on appearance and knowledge or lack of knowledge of their lifestyle, living situation, nation, etc.
certain things bring us together and alleviate the tension of being near a "stranger"
sharing a joke, watching them interact with a child or a pet, seeing them interact with the natural world in a positive way, running, jumping, gardening etc.
seeing them do something i do or something ordinary, washing clothes, carrying water, standing in a doorway, looking out a window, laughing, cooking a meal
i think the fear of the "stranger" is instinctual and beyond our ability to totally eradicate, i think it is the basis of all prejudice
rather than eradicate it, we need to accept it and look for the similarities
some "strangers" are dangerous
some "strangers" mean us harm
but most friends and strangers really just want to be free from want and free from violence so they can hold their babies and walk in the fields and sweep their floors and partake in the joys of life
we need to keep that in mind while we're forming our opinions

I actually see neither. I am a bit standoffish and I wait for people to like me, and come to me with an offer of friendship. So once they do, I look at them and find out about them.

The only exception to this is I try to befriend fellow Native Americans if I see or meet one. So in that respect I AM one of the "Tribe" but other than that I am a Tribe of One.

Seek said: “When you see or think of someone or a group of people who appear to not be the same as you, do you see differences? Do we really see ourselves as that different? Should we? For example, do you see first an Arab or a Muslim (or black person or white person or oriental or whatever "other" than exactly what ye are) or do you first see another human being, just as you are..? Does it matter?”

This was tougher to answer then I anticipated. When I first see somebody (or think of a group of people) I generally note various characteristics, but the same/difference comparison doesn’t happen until I try to imagine some form of interaction between them and either myself or another group. If available, behavioral observations are typically more influential then cultural experience, which is more influential then physical characteristics, but I use whatever I have at the time. While I don’t believe that we are fundamentally different, I do acknowledge that we do have some differences, and the assuming these to be trivial in our interactions can lead to gross misunderstandings between us. Humans form stereotypes (good and bad) for a reason ... they help us make predictions about our environment ... and stereotypes only work if we ‘see’ the differences between us.

“Do we desire comfort of "the tribe"? Perhaps literally?”

To some degree we all feel more comfortable with people who have more things in common with us then others. IMO this is primarily because it makes our stereotypes more accurate because we have more information. You can mitigate this somewhat through education, but not completely ... some cultures just don’t sync well. I don’t think this has anything to do with a desire for the comfort of the tribe though. In fact, some time ago, I saw a very compelling theory that indicated that the concept of tribe among humans actually breaks down somewhere just beyond 100 people (varies for each individual) and that this was one explanation for inner city gang violence. In the US ... our tribe is our own circle of friends (our black book) and it was much easier to act aggressively against somebody not in that circle ... and if somebody within that circle violates ‘the code’ the punishment is rather primitive ... that somebody is ejected from the circle and the protection and benefit provided therein until that can make amends somehow.

“The problem must be when people's (conditioned? or natural?) fears are played upon by elite powerful forces, for their end, not the "other" persons, nor yours.”

I don’t think this is strictly an elite power struggle ... more like a traditional scapegoat ... IOW, we allow ourselves to be ‘played’ because we see some benefit in it for us. It won’t stop until we see more benefit in thinking for ourselves.

Generally, I see people as individuals first. I notice things about them, sure, but I wait and see what their personality is like. I give people time to show me what they're really like, if they want to be my friend, and yes, sometimes I'm disappointed, but that usually has to do with their actions, not their differences to me.

I'm not as tolerant as I'd like, but any issues I have with people tend to revolve around characteristics of their personalities - like whether they never listen, things like that - rather than their religion or ethnicity etc. I have friends from all over the world and of all different backgrounds and religions, and none of it affects their personality or how well we get along.

Interesting thoughts. I think I tend to notice similarities between other people and myself first. If I'm standing in line at the store I notice the man in front of me has kids hanging off each arm and one of them is smearing cookie crumbs all over his suede jacket. Obviously my brain is simplifying things: man, black, tall, great jacket. But at the same time I'm processing a physical description I'm also identifying with him: Yeah, I know how that feels. If you put us side by side it appears we have nothing in common. Our experiences are where any similarities lie and I think I tend to look for that first.

I'm still thinking about Kristjan's comments on the comfort of "the tribe".

I think the first thing I do is categorize someone into one of many definitions I carry around in my head of "what kind of person is this". I assess them based on their clothing, age, mannerisms, and if I interact with them then on what they have to say, what I learn of their background, ethnicity, history, etc.

Secondly I tend to look for similarities, how am I like this person? If I like them, why? If I dislike them, why?

Then begins the process of shattering my preconceived notions of who they are based on the category I have put them in. Almost no one fits neatly inside of a box, no matter how hard we might try to stuff them into it. I am always surprised by people... whether it is a pleasant or an unpleasant surprise.

I think my default setting is to assume other people are like me. It's rarely true. People have radically different ways of looking at the world, of interpreting words. Even if we speak the same language, we don't really speak the same language. It is rare that I meet people who see the world through something close to my perspective.