Reading the Chunksters discussion

Ok, what are your thoughts on this section.

Remember that we are discussing Reality v. fiction in this thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Please use this topic for a discussion of the content of the book. Thanks!

So Ethel has paid the price of her folly, and on top of that Fitz has turned away from her to his legitimate heir coming from Bea.

Surely she couldn't expect anything different? Servant sleeps with master, gets pregnant, it's not a new story. The only non-traditional thing, perhaps, is that she was as much seducer as seduced. But there's only one way for it to end, and it does.

Will we see Ethel again in the story?

Has this permanently broken up the Williams family? Will Ethel ever, as she wonders, see Aberowen again?

She dithers somewhat about what to do, where to go, but just as modern girls who run away usually run to New York or L.A., she runs away to the 20th century equivalent, London.

Do I seem cold about this? If so, it's because Follett seems cold.

It was quite evident that she would be pregnant, and I think Follett actually wanted his readers to feel smart. At that point, he is using the laws of the genre or sub-genre. There are too many things happening in the novel right now, and Ethel is just a victim of her own sensual foible.

Fitz's reaction was also predictable, but I feel we might observe a certain shift in the long run.

I am quite confident we shall see Ethel again. As one of the characters mentioned, she was seen in London, pregnant, and telling other people about her state. At least, this lady has guts to fight for her position and even use it to extol some money from the man who fathered the child.

I wonder why she is concealing the identity of the child's father even from her family members. I have a suspicion that she is not a simple girl as it might be easily assumed.

As for Follett feeling indifferent, I agree with you Everyman. He is slightly dispassionate about the subject. The reason for his literary coldness is his passion about politics and international intrigue. He seems to be more involved with this topic, and he is trying to accentuate the inevitability of the war. It is as if the world is conspiring against many characters.

I am quite confident we shall see Ethel again.

Agreed! She was too much of an important character to go by the wayside so soon. I have a feeling big things are in store between her and Fitz, as well, which is why Follet is actually taking so much time telling us that she is claiming the identity of the father as a fictional person.

I'm actually wondering if there might not be a problem with Bea's baby again, and Fitz will see Ethel's baby as his only child. It could bring about a change of heart and Follet has spent a lot of time discussion Bea's pregnancy issues.

Overall this section for me was just so-so, but I think because I really saw this coming with Ethel, so that was no surprise. Follet was basically just filling in some details for me. I also, obviously, knew that the war was going to happen, so its hard to be in suspense about the Maud-Walter story line like they themselves were. And did anyone really think that Maud wasn't going to change her mind about her engagement?

I know that these parts of the story were necessary, but I do want to get into some of the other story lines now where I don't have "pretty good guesses" as to what is coming next. Or, actually, even these same story line again since I don't quite know where Follet will take them after this point.

This week's read was just all stuff I saw coming already, so it didn't seem terribly exciting.

I think it is intentional to sum up everything and prepare us for the unexpected because we do not know how war is going to twist their lives.

Someone is going to die - it is war, after all, and someone will get injured, but can you predict who is or who is not.

Follett is not the most literary writer, but he knows how to move from one point to another, and he has to close the theme before he moves to the other.

Kaycie wrote: "Overall this section for me was just so-so, but I think because I really saw this coming with Ethel, so that was no surprise. Follet was basically just filling in some details for me. I also, obviously, knew that the war was going to happen, so its hard to be in suspense about the Maud-Walter story line like they themselves were. "

That's an interesting observation. I do agree with it. In one sense, Follett has a problem because there's really no way he can hold us in suspense over which countries go to war when, but in other areas he really isn't doing much out of the ordinary. Lev winding up in Britain was a bit of a surprise, but other than that his plotting is very pedestrian and, for me at least, doesn't really grab me.

Fortunately, his writing style is enjoyable enough that I can still enjoy the book. But great literature is isn't.

Not much happened in this section. I thought invoking God after having "sinned" was "tres coquet", even laugh out loud funny. Unfortunately the story didn't veer towards ridiculing its characters. I'm beginning to feel that Follett cannot transfer any sense of humor he has from pen to paper.

The author having imposed a ridiculous tone(at least IMHO) it's weird that I'm not enjoying the historical, the real, pivotal, and consequential events leading to The Great War. The melodramatic and serious events should have played off each other, but instead I deduce that the former has cheapened the latter. This development, for me, is the only unexpected thing to happen in this section.

I think Ethel's pregnancy and Billy's sanctimonious reaction to it are comical. Billy is apparently leaving his home. Maybe he'll be the one ending up in the USA.

Walter and Maud are equally unintentionally funny persons. I still see no evidence that their love is true love. They are entertaining in their own way. They stick out like puppets would stick out in a Pixar movie. Fitz seems like the most realistic character. I expect good things from him in the War. Altogether I think this section disappointed and I give it 2/5.

Luffy wrote: "Fitz seems like the most realistic character. I expect good things from him in the War."

Interesting. I'll have to go back and relook at Fitz; I was looking him mostly as background, after the opening in the mine and then the emphasis more on Ethel than Fitz, as I read their interactions.

I thought Mrs William's reaction to Ethel's pregnancy was unbelievable - a few seconds of "how could you?" and then "I am going to be a grandmother!" I can't imagine that being true of the time. She must understand how devastating that pregnancy is for Ethel, surely? Though maybe Ethel can "use" the war and say that the baby's father has been killed and so save some respectability?

I agree about this section being mostly summary, but at least now the pregnancy is confirmed and the war a reality, we can move on to the unexpected.

I loved Mrs William's reaction :) She was a typical mother who is too soft on her children. It's like she knew she had to scold Ethel, but was too excited at the prospect of getting a grandbaby to really keep up with the appearances. Mr. Williams on the other hand was truly the stern father, because of his believes. That makes me wonder... is Mrs Williams as dedicated to religion as her husband? I might have missed the details that could have answered my question.

I too liked Mrs Williams reaction......and didn't find it unbelievable. I can remember at one point my strict catholic grandmother telling me that I didn't really need a husband to have a baby ;-)

I also agree that nothing really unexpected came out of this section. However I did find some points humorous, like both Maud and Walter's naïveté regarding the international scene.

I agree that Follett isn't the most literary writer, but I think that he does have a talent for weaving in the historical detail of the international politics in an engaging way (whether it is true or false can be debated in the other thread).

I’m glad someone found it believable I just think that her daughter’s future, which does not look bright and sunny after this pregnancy, would overshadow the joy of a grandchild. I understand why the news of a grandchild would make her happy, but given the circumstances it seemed out of place for me. Her daughter will be shunned by society (as evidenced by the two other girls who had children out of wedlock and who now couldn’t get served in shops etc.) and will give birth to a bastard child (to use a beautiful word). Given that, her joy seemed out of place for me. “Your career and life in this town are ruined, but yay, a baby!”

What I think Follett is conveying well is the sense of inevitability of the war and how each action sets off the next in the inexorable chain. I remember when I studied World War 1, they talked about how the alliance structure made the war so hard to avoid. It's an interesting lens for current politics. There's been a lot of talk this year about the dangerous return of power politics, reminiscent of before WWI and, for me, Follett makes this quite tangible.

The other bit I enjoy is the portrayal of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Prior to WW1, they were such a significant power and basically were willing to go to war over a "slight" from a small neighbour. But, with hindsight, we know that after the war, they cease to be a global power.

Of course, Follett knows this and is probably over-emphasising their attitudes, but it still amuses me.

Esther wrote: "What I think Follett is conveying well is the sense of inevitability of the war and how each action sets off the next in the inexorable chain. I remember when I studied World War 1, they talked about how the alliance structure made the war so hard to avoid. It's an interesting lens for current politics. There's been a lot of talk this year about the dangerous return of power politics, reminiscent of before WWI and, for me, Follett makes this quite tangible. "


Ditto, and worded so well. The feeling of doom and the inevitable has been originally diffused, but now it is getting more concentrated.

Esther wrote: "What I think Follett is conveying well is the sense of inevitability of the war and how each action sets off the next in the inexorable chain. I remember when I studied World War 1, they talked abo..."

It must have been a very difficult time to live through.

Everyman wrote: It must have been a very difficult time to live through.

I keep thinking that. Imagine you can see that coming and there's no way out...

I think Follett uses Maud to good effect to convey something close to what a reader experiences. Even though her desire to avoid war is partially very self-oriented, it does convey that frustration of seeing something so awful screaming toward you.

Even though I read this on Tuesday I'm still a bit late on posting. Apologies. Being involved in the discussions takes more time than I anticipated.

Like everyone else, I thought that Ethel's situation was predictable from the first few pages of the book. What I wasn't anticipating was her fiercely determined behavior when she fought back.

Fitz is an.... very terrible person. ;) My favorite gems from this were "It was a terrible punishment for his sin" He thinks HE'S being punished? What about Ethel who has to raise this child alone! And then But she would not behave the way a discarded mistress should Gee, how inconvenient for him.

I didn't find Ethel's mother's behavior as surprising as some. She started to get upset but then I felt she took a step back, assessed Ethel's emotional state and readjusted her strategy by focusing on the positive. Basically I think she was being a really great mom.

I started to see a bit of what Follett may be trying to do with the Walter/Maud relationship in this one. Their relationship is over the top cheesy, but it really personalizes the war for us. When we think of WWI or WWII it tends to be as nation against nation. By showing us Walter and Maud's struggles it shows us that there are real people involved and their lives are being torn apart against their will all because of their nationalities. This makes it more real in a way. One quote: "If they could just stand firm, then the future might be bright for Walter and Maud and millions of other people who just wanted to live in peace."

I agree that there wasn't a lot to talk about in this section, which makes me wonder why I took so long to post. So much of this week's read focused on the Fitz and Ethel situation which we were all pretty much anticipating.

I know one poster thought that the situation with Billy was a bit comical, but I was actually quite moved by his conviction. This was a boy to whom religion was everything. Religion and family. When they couldn't be reconciled he did what he believed was right and it may have cost him both.

Sarah --- I really like your insight about Maud and Walter's relationship making the conflict more personal. :-D

Thanks JoLene. When I study history it's always the people themselves I want to know about rather than the nations or wars. So for me this just suddenly clicked. Follett does a good job of showing people's opinions and emotions on an individual scale rather than on a grand scale.

Sarah wrote: "I started to see a bit of what Follett may be trying to do with the Walter/Maud relationship in this one. Their relationship is over the top cheesy, but it really personalizes the war for us. "

Nice post. I appreciate your finding a good reason for Follett handling the Maud/Walter relationship as crudely as he does.

While I think the Maud/Walter romance itself plays out as a bit silly, the romance is certainly very representative of what a lot of people would have been facing at the time. Two people fall in love, but they have to make vary serious choices because of their nationalities and backgrounds. Well, people deal with that every time they choose to marry someone, just not usually on that scale. But it certainly was a very real issue at the time.

I'm curious about what will happen to both Ethel and Billy, although for some reason I just don't find them as engaging.

Fitz, however, I find interesting. I'm not sure why. Something about how hard and cold he's being now make me feel as though that is not how he will continue? Like maybe he's the one who will end up having more depth to his character by the end? May not play out that way, just the feeling I have at this juncture.

I think that's a good point that Fitz's character could have the most depth and development.