21st Century Literature discussion

Given a choice, when you have to pause while reading a book, is there an ideal place you like to do so (at the end of a chapter, on a left hand or right hand page, after the first sentence ends on a page or the first paragraph or... )? Do you use a bookmark or dogear a page to mark your place? What type of bookmark do you use? If it's an e-book, does this change where or how you like to pause in your reading? An audiobook? How do you handle it when your default choice isn't an option (e.g., a book with no page numbers or no chapters or no paragraphs... )?

Ok. First the boring part: If a book with chapters or clearly marked section breaks, I stop at the end of a chapter or section break. I use a bookmark. I have many of them. My library gives them out for free and I have a lot of old ones as well, but sometimes a receipt or a business card or whatever is handy will do.

Next, the only mildly (barely) interesting part: Some books have a lot of sections and sometimes there is more than one section that starts on a two-page spread when the book is opened. I try to avoid stopping on one of these as it then is ambiguous where I stopped and I get a bit anxious when I start again. I will read a few pages more than I would otherwise have wanted if it leads me to a two-page spread with only one new section start. If that isn't possible, I always end at the first new section start of a given spread.

Finally, the barely interesting, but a little more interesting part: Solar Bones has no sentence starts or endings in the entire book. When I read it I picked places where it seemed like a topic had ended and a new one was starting. To mark my place, I would put a (short) bookmark sideways underlining the last line I read and lay the book down on its back if I stopped on an odd numbered page or on its front if I stopped on an even numbered page (so the stop line is "face up" either way). I sometimes do this with books with very long sections / chapters or if I need to stop unexpectedly.

I always know what stop strategy I am going to use before I start reading. There was a time when I would also pre-decide how much I was going to read each time before I started, but now I only ever do that where I am deliberately reading a book at a specific pace. (For example, just today I started a book that is 78 pages long and I plan to read roughly 11 pages per day for a week in order to end on the 31st. The book has 16 chapters and I worked out which chapter or chapters I will read each day before I started.)

I prefer to stop at ends of chapters or section breaks, and consequently am put off long narratives without structure or punctuation. Very soon I will have to start reading Ducks, Newburyport and am not looking forward to the structure. Starting a new page when there is no sentence ending to pick up on will be hard.

I now use book marks to keep my place. In the past I used art postcards from galleries around the world and had a collection of some 600 such postcards. The box I kept these in was lost in a relocation, and so my collection has been restarted, using the ones I had used as book marks and left in the books. I still find these sometime, when browsing through a book I may not have touched for years. It is like meeting an old friend and exchanging stories about a day in our collective memory from years before.

I fold page corners - mainly in books I'm sent to review, but sometimes in pristine hardbacks, just so I can highlight a place to come back to or re-read.

Like the majority I wait for the chapter to finish.

In the case of a book with short chapters such as Cat's Cradle. I'll read a set amount, say 10 chapters. Take a break and read another ten.

In the case of experimental novels, I give myself 10 page breaks.

Marc wrote: "Given a choice, when you have to pause while reading a book, is there an ideal place you like to do so?"

I tend to get distracted when reading, or alternatively, to fall asleep, and in both cases I have no trouble stopping mid-chapter or mid-sentence.

My only rule is that I always use a bookmark and unless there is a single chapter break on a page, it indicates the last two pages I have read. Where I stop is usually determined by time or (when reading on public transport) whether I think I can finish the next 2 pages before my stop. If forced to finish in mid sentence I will normally reread the incomplete sentence unless it is very long. In Ducks Newburyport I treated "the fact that" like a sentence break.

Usually I wait for the end of a section or a chapter but lately I've been reading by time allotments. If I'm close to the end of a chapter or section I'll finish but otherwise I stop at the end of the paragraph.

Lark wrote: "I tend to get distracted when reading, or alternatively, to fall asleep, and in both cases I have no trouble stopping mid-chapter or mid-sentence."

Sounds like I'm bits and pieces of everybody here - I have those never never land pauses that sometimes turn into a doze, my bookmarks must bring me some kind of joy (hey, I'm a Kondo-ite!), and I stop at any place that has some kind of clear demarcation, although it's often not the one I'd prefer - which is why I'm always saying to my partner "I'm coming, I've just got 7 1/2 more paragraphs to go...."

Lark wrote: "Marc wrote: "Given a choice, when you have to pause while reading a book, is there an ideal place you like to do so?"

I tend to get distracted when reading, or alternatively, to fall asleep, and i..."

Me, too. When I stop isn't something I plan or control.

Oh, and bookmark, dogear, whatever.

I like to finish a chapter but it is not unknown for me to fall asleep before that happens which can mean going back several pages to find the last bit I remember. Normally, though, I will look for a natural break of some kind. For paper books, I have a Gruffalo bookmark that has been going for many years and is now more sellotape than Gruffalo. I am loathe to say goodbye to it, though.

I read Ducks, Newburyport on the Kindle (and am currently three-quarters through a re-read of it). My strategy here is quite simple: I highlight the “the” of the “the fact that” that I am up to and then just delete the highlight when I pick the book back up again.

It was trickier with Solar Bones which I read in a dead tree version, but I used the same technique as already mentioned: a horizontal bookmark (and I always stopped on the right hand page to avoid ambiguity).

Where there’s a will, there’s always a way!

As for dog ears - I try to use post-it tabs to make notes or flag something, but if I don't have them at hand, i'll make teeny, tiny, miniscule dog ears and then have a hell of time finding them.

well it's deeply lovely to me to learn that other people also have been known to fall asleep while reading. thanks!

I started to feel better about nodding off sometimes after my voice teacher told me very matter-of-factly about all the sleeping she does at the opera. I actually have never gone to sleep at an opera, but symphonic stuff where a vocalist doesn't solo, yes.

Dog ears are evil.

Just a personal view - please don't take offence!

Lark wrote: "well it's deeply lovely to me to learn that other people also have been known to fall asleep while reading. thanks!

I started to feel better about nodding off sometimes after my voice teacher told..."

I tend to sleep at the cinema - hence the reason I only watch horror - that keeps me alert, if it's an art house film then I'll drink a double coffee to keep me awake.

I'm definitely in the "fall asleep or get interrupted" group.

Neil wrote: "Dog ears are evil.

Just a personal view - please don't take offence!"

I'm with you on that one, Neil. But if it is one's own book, who has any right to say except the owner! Still, don't let it be a library book!

(Any idea why some of us feel so strongly on this one? I've seen it discussed in book groups for years.)

True, I suppose. If a person has paid for a book, they can do what they like with it, especially if they don't plan to pass it on. But I would never treat a book of mine like that.

I always use a bookmark, and when I lend or give away my books people often say they look unread. But I also take books to work and on long walks, so a few of them get water damaged. The horizontal bookmark will not survive a journey in the rucksack.

I will use the horizontal bookmark if interrupted by the phone.

I am so anti-dog-ears that it even unnnerves me that the Kindle has an electronic equivalent!

Like Lark, I'm likely to have sleep determine end-points. I make extensive use of Post-It flags (but not Notes, they are too awkward for the ways I use flags). Ones at the top or near sometimes mark out sections, although I seldom read by sections or chapters. Usually one color or type marks the last place stopped -- if I've been awake to move it. Others on the side mark passages to be copied, new words, .... When a library book is returned, I remove them and have a little patch to use for the next book. In my own books, I use marginalia and underlining -- an array of little symbols built up across the years. Still, pencil, not ink, so they often disappear over the years. (I do not expect most of my books to have resale value -- nor do I expect anyone except maybe a family member or particular friend to have any interest in my comments. More just an external memory on book pages rather than in a digital file.) I do have a collection of book marks (in an open box on one bookcase -- for ease of finding and returning), and, yes, post cards are fun as such -- usually for the memories or stories they evoke. But such bookmarks always seem to fall out for me -- even the big, long ones from libraries or book shows.

While I love a story that hooks me enough that I read it straight through, I have read too much to necessarily have patience with the writer. No law says I must read a book in the order printed. Now, obviously, the choices I make may affect the impact of the read.

I wish I had David's discipline (@2) in laying out a plan before starting to read. I don't. (One of my book club colleagues who has the discipline of [quickly] reading one book at a time made a point of sending me a definition for "re-adultry," knowing it fit my habits of being simultaneously in the midst of numerous books.)

In her Thunder and Lightning: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft, Natalie Goldberg spent over a third of its pages in the section labelled "Reading." She writes: "I never just plunge into reading a book. I look around the corners and see what I can glean from the biographical notes, the dedication, the copyright, the acknowledgements--anything to set the stage." I realized I have more often used those as footnotes or after-thoughts than to "set the stage." But, in mimicking, I have found her insight.

She also wrote this about physical structure, using Styron's Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness, after first having steeped her class in its internal structure: "...I wanted them to be aware of something so basic that we often fail to notice it altogether....I'm asking something obvious. You don't need to think, just look....Finally, I answered my own question. 'Only small space marks the section breaks. Usually in books each new chapter begins on a fresh page. It's not a major point but is affects us unconsciously as we read.' This kind of physical spacing paces our reading and creates blocks of meaning." p.95

And I just temporarily used a tv remote and a coaster as book marks after selecting these two examples to share -- one that I recalled, the other that I rediscovered. (This personal copy was still unmarked.)

Neil wrote: "I am so anti-dog-ears that it even unnnerves me that the Kindle has an electronic equivalent!"

I can relate. Also, to your words of respect for a book: "But I would never treat a book of mine like that."

(A few months ago I felt a bit of peevishness at a reader who bragged about the beauty of the paper in a book he had bought, then disappeared for the ensuing discussion. Yes, other things had interrupted his priorities. Yet, no matter how lovely, a book is for reading, for sharing, not for display -- imho.)

Still, you have probably read the stories of how Thomas Jefferson collected and treated his books, from helping recreate the National Library to his creation of his own (Deist?) version of scripture by clipping, collating, rearranging. And then, too, his special book stand for using several volumes simultaneously. (For many years, my fantasy to own a replica. Now, I shall probably never do so.)

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-c...

https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/thomas-j...

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/4047610...

Lily wrote: "Neil wrote: "Dog ears are evil.

Just a personal view - please don't take offence!"

I'm with you on that one, Neil. But if it is one's own book, who has any right to say except the owner! Still, d..."

Yes, but I disagree, and I trade in collectible books. To each his own.

I came across this used book once that had these nifty little metal tabs that slid over the edge of the page and pointed to whatever line you wanted them to... Book Darts are one type. I saved them, but never use them (I'd just lose them if I carried them around.

Like others, I'll stop at a chapter's end if that's a viable option, but it usually isn't, so I normally try for a left hand page beginning of first full paragraph (if no paragraphs, first sentence ending; if no sentence ending, first line or two... ). A lot of my bookmarks are nostalgic postcards, business cards from artist friends, gifts, etc. I do dogear, but not to mark my spot--only to return to passages I want to quote, discuss, underline, or possibly use in a review, or words I want to look up later. My only real complication is if I want to dogear 2 or 3 spots on the same lower or upper part of page---sometimes, it starts to look like origami.

I will, however, treat the spine of almost any fiction or poetry book as if it were a newborn infant. Nonfiction paperbacks, sometimes, I'll bend like Gumby.

Lily wrote: "One of my book club colleagues who has the discipline of [quickly] reading one book at a time made a point of sending me a definition for "re-adultry," knowing it fit my habits of being simultaneously in the midst of numerous books."

One time someone asked me about my reading and I said I was in the middle of four books. They expressed great surprise and thought it must be very confusing to alternate reading so many books. I replied by asking them whether they watch any TV series. They said they do. I then asked how many different shows they watch? More than four?

Sometimes I only have one book on the go, but most of the time it's two or more. That's not readultry. That's just having a polyamorous relationship with books.

Marc wrote: "I came across this used book once that had these nifty little metal tabs that slid over the edge of the page and pointed to whatever line you wanted them to... Book Darts are one type. I saved them..."

Spines are sacred, indeed.

I own and have collected many, many bookmarks over the years. Some are mementos from bookstores visited while traveling, some are eye-catching, usually from a promo (I have a glittery Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas one from the 25th Anniversary edition that's pretty neat), however, none of these bookmarks have ever been used in a book I'm reading. What you'll find in my books instead are torn pieces of toilet paper, maybe a kleenex, a ripped page of junk mail, or, most commonly, one of the 300 subscription post cards shed from a single issue of the New Yorker. As much as I'd love to stop reading at a systematic point in a novel I generally have mere seconds to grab whatever is closest and stuff it between pages before I fall asleep or need to do something else. I'm actually finding Ducks, Newburyport pretty compatible with my habits so far!

I love how much variation in people's habits is revealed by these questions.

I prefer to read e-books these days. I have found them liberating in that I could never bring myself to highlight or underline IRL books, probably because I hated picking up a used book and finding highlighting or underlining. I used to preserve spines, but eventually discovered the liberation of breaking the spine right away to improve reading comfort. Dog-earring, however, hurts my soul.

I have always been particular about my book marks. The perfect size is 4" x 2", with an obvious front / back and top / bottom. Since I'm in the "stop reading when I'm distracted" camp (by needing to leave for work, arriving at a bus stop, the light turning green, the food arriving etc.), I'll place the top front at the location last read. This size bookmark is a common size for event tickets. I used to see 20 to 30 movies during each Seattle International Film Festival and the tickets were perfect bookmarks. I used to flip through them to find ones that thematically matched the book I was about to read.

And, Lily, the Jeffersonian book stand is amazing. I would also like one.

I wonder why US publishers have stopped attaching those little red ribbon bookmarks in books? There was some cloth-bound series of classics that used to have them. Now I only see those ribbons in blank notebooks with fancy covers. My BoB (Book of Books) has one.

Nadine wrote: "I wonder why US publishers have stopped attaching those little red ribbon bookmarks in books? There was some cloth-bound series of classics that used to have them. Now I only see those ribbons in b..."

They are apparently expensive to produce, at least when bound into the spine. I love the one in my first volume of the The Divine Hours by Phyllis Tickle, but neither of the next two volumes had that lovely little luxury. Still, pulling my copy, which I haven't been using recently, I remembered that long narrow satin ribbons of various colors can be very useful in books used frequently, especially when different sections may be accessed during the same read. (That's what my other two volumes of that series now have.)

I believe the Everyman series was one that used to provide ribbons with their cloth covered hardbound editions?

Adrian wrote: "....What you'll find in my books instead are torn pieces of toilet paper, maybe a kleenex, a ripped page of junk mail, or, most commonly, one of the 300 subscription post cards shed from a single issue of the New Yorker...."

RFLOL! A tissue scrap is what followed my tv remote this afternoon in Thunder and Lightning!

Whitney wrote: "...the Jeffersonian book stand is amazing. I would also like one. ..."

If you have the space to use it, I hope you find a way to have one!

David wrote: "...Sometimes I only have one book on the go, but most of the time it's two or more. That's not readultry. That's just having a polyamorous relationship with books...."

LOL! Wish I'd had your quip for a response so many years ago now. I may stilll have to figure out how to fit it into a conversation....

I am in the easily distracted by something shiny (usually my phone) or falling asleep mid sentence category. The Kindle is pretty good at keeping my place when that happens, for DTB I either leave them open when I am reading at home, otherwise I use a business card, torn off piece of newspaper, movie ticket, post it, whatever is easiest. Sometimes I dogear but I try to avoid. I have a few fancy bookmarks I received or bought but I never recall where they are when I need them.

Sometimes I use a book as a bookmark for another book.

I have done that too, but it gets a bit bulky if you want to take your book somewhere

Ellie wrote: "Sometimes I use a book as a bookmark for another book."

This made me think of what I'll call the EMERGENCY STOP where you just put the open book face down so you don't lose your place as you spring into action to sop up a spilled drink or suddenly remember there's uncovered meat in the kitchen and the cat is not in sight (we now have a cat that has stolen and consumed entire burritos).

Marc wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Sometimes I use a book as a bookmark for another book."

{g} A physical manifestation of intertextuality? (I'm made similar book sandwiches, so can relate! Sometimes when pursuing an idea across several books; others, when another book [or magazine] is the handiest book mark within reach. But can also be for what Marc calls the EMERGENCY STOP.)

I love that no matter how dire the emergency, people still find time to save their place.

Lily wrote: "Marc wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Sometimes I use a book as a bookmark for another book."

{g} A physical manifestation of intertextuality? (I'm made similar book sandwiches, so can relate! Sometimes when..."

But the binding!!!! Ackkkkk!

Carol wrote: "But the binding!!!! Ackkkkk! ."

Well, we are not all spine connoisseurs, just no dog ears. {g} See Carol @26) But I don't recall ever having broken a (book) spine when making a book sandwich. Just sometimes have to be sensitive to the page counts and the construction of the books included -- like making any stacked sandwich....

I've actually never broken a spine. So far.

I have a collection of bookmarks that I started long ago when my mom gave me her old bookmarks. I have some from different countries I've visited, art museums, some gifts from my friends. I always choose the bookmark before starting a book depending on theme.

I usually read on my commute so it really depends on time, if I can make it to the end of a chapter I will stop there but if not I will stop at the end of a section as much as possible.