Once Upon a Time... discussion

This Bluebeard retelling will be our October group read. I'll be internet restricted/on the road for a bit, but please jump in and start discussing this book whenever you're ready. I look forward to reading it when I get home!

well, from "better late than never" rushing the books in at the end of last month, to "I'm aleady done!" for this month.

But, yeah, I'm aleady done with this. :)

Finished it yesterday and would be happy to discuss it if anyone else is done, but am also happy to hold off on discussion considering it is only October 3rd and people might not even have started it yet.

In a non-spoiler-oriented discussion i can say this: I did enjoy it and found myself looking forward to finding out how it resolved itself. And obviously I found it a really fast read.

Diane wrote: "And obviously I found it a really fast read."

Haha! I'll say! I kind of love creepy, old Bluebeard so I'm looking forward to it. I'll be jumping into the discussion about mid-month, but everyone else please don't wait!

Our local library didn't have it, so I had to put in a request for the state interlibrary loan. Because of that, I probably won't have it to even start no sooner than Wednesday, probably not until Friday.

Lisa wrote: "Our local library didn't have it, so I had to put in a request for the state interlibrary loan. Because of that, I probably won't have it to even start no sooner than Wednesday, probably not until ..."
Our library doesn't have it either:( State interlibrary loan? That sounds cool!

Yeah, it is cool! I've used it multiple times. I'm in Maryland. We can borrow from any library in the county just by putting in a normal request. If there aren't any copies available in the county, as was the case this time - they only had one copy of the audiobook - then we use our library card to log into a system called Marina and it will show us all the copies that are available for request within the entire state. All we have to do then is tell them which branch we want the book delivered to for pick up and it takes about a week to arrive.

Lisa wrote: "Yeah, it is cool! I've used it multiple times. I'm in Maryland. We can borrow from any library in the county just by putting in a normal request. If there aren't any copies available in the county,..."

That is pretty awesome!

I'm back from my trip! I'm going to start reading Strands of Bronze and Gold tonight. Anyone else besides Diane reading it? Going to read it? Read it?

It's in my "to read next" pile. I will probably start reading it Sunday.

Heidi wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Yeah, it is cool! I've used it multiple times. I'm in Maryland. We can borrow from any library in the county just by putting in a normal request. If there aren't any copies available i..."

I just borrowed the book from my library, and will start reading it soon! Can't wait!

Lisa and Muggle, I look forward to hearing your thoughts! You too, Diane, whenever you're ready to jump in:D

I'm about 30% through. There are some things I like: the southern setting and I think the author did a great job on making M. Bernard as too-attentive and controlling. Also, intimating that Sophia was targeted by him, as would be the case with most sophisticated predators. I do love the "castle" as the relocated abbey.

What I'm not head-over-heels about: two things I really just go UGH! on... the holocaust and slavery. Sorry. I have read so many books and seen so many movies on these subjects that they just kind of turn me off now. Rarely, do I come across something new or fresh in these regards.

That being said, did an amazingly refreshing telling of the holocaust. I'll reserve judgment on how the slavery subplot in Strands of Bronze and Gold unfolds, but at these point, Sophia's perspective on that is tiresome. Sorry!

Anybody else have any opinions on all that?

I finished this book last night:) Anyone else going to join the discussion? There's nothing like blabbing on and on in an echo chamber, lol

Sorry - not much reading going on lately. We've had too much family sickness and activities. I'll get there!

Oh, Lisa, sorry to hear that! I hope everyone gets well soon:) Plus, I guess this is just a busy time of year! Well, if anyone does want to discuss the book, I'll pop in!

Thanks, Heidi! I think we are all on the mend now finally.

I was going to cut and paste my review here but for some reason i never actually reviewed it!

I did like it. I thought the whole environment was strange (relocated abbey in the south? what?) and that added to the fairy tale feel. I find there are some things that might annoy me in another type of book I am much more forgiving of -- and even enjoy -- in fairy tale retellings. Because fairy tales are *supposed* to be somewhat odd and discordant, at least to me! :)

I am with you that the slavery part was just ugh. I also kind of felt that way about the (view spoiler)[ supernatural part. It didn't really detract from the story but I didn't feel like I actually needed it there. (hide spoiler)] And I'm not sure that is really a spoiler but just in case!

Diane, I really like the setting too:) The relocated abbey was an unusual choice and I thought the different parts added a lot to the gothic feel of the story. I also thought Bernard/Bluebeard was well done. For me the best part of the book was (view spoiler)[when Sophia's family came to visit. Bernard's creepy/controlling conditional generosity was well told and that was the part that had me glued to the pages. (hide spoiler)].

I like how you brought up the discordant feel, that was definitely there and added to the creep factor.

After I finished reading I did check out some other reviews and other readers also seemed to experience varying degrees of Ugh on the slavery aspect. (view spoiler)[The one place it worked well was when Sophia's older sister confronted Bernard. I understand Sophia was young, but you'd think she'd have had a more visceral repugnance rather than the flighty/self-centered one that turned me off in the beginning. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway, it's a retelling I'd been wanting to read, so I'm glad we did!

Thanks for joining in on the discussion. It's nice to hear the similarities and differences in how other readers experience the same book.

Yes! The part you mentioned in your first spoiler was really a great section of the book. (view spoiler)[I agree that Bernard's creep factor was really highlighted in this section and played so well against his obvious charm. And this section of the book really rang true for me in how her siblings acted because, you know what, there would/could be a brother who would be all "well, yeah, he maybe sucks but did you ask him about the money?!" I understand that that also served as a vehicle for making her more tied to him, but I thought it worked really well. (hide spoiler)]

I think the setting was a great choice. In addition to the discordant aspect, it also felt really lush. And, if you've ever been to the south, that lushness can also be very oppressive physical (with the humidity, etc.) So I think the setting did a great job of adding to the whole oppressive nature of Sophia's situation.

I think the writing overall had a lush feel and I don't have any complaints about the writing style.

oh! (view spoiler)[making sophia dress in all sorts of outfits and make up was just totally odd, wasn't it?! Talk about discordant! I kept trying to picture a girl from the antebellum south dressed as an indian belly dancer or whatever and would end up all ...what?! Typing it up now, that whole aspect of the book makes me laugh but while I was reading it, it REALLY add to the strange creepy factor.

And while I didn't really need the supernatural aspect, I DID like hearing about all the different wives and what they were like. It made them -- *and* bluebeard/bernard -- seem so much more human and realistic. (hide spoiler)]

Yes! (view spoiler)[The dressing up also worked well to show how malleable he expected her to be. His taste for all the different outfits also showed how he was as much of a transplant to Mississippi as the abbey was. Okay, I thought the hair thing was kind of cool and weird at the same time. I thought more might come of it, since it's the title of the book. But I guess it was mostly referring to his definitive choice of hair color in a bride! (hide spoiler)]

You know, somehow I managed to totally forget about (view spoiler)[the hair thing. I mean, obviously I *remember* it, but when thinking about the book, it's not a thing that jumps out at me to mention. Which is kind of strange considering it IS the title of the book. When I think about it now, I do think the adding the hair to the tapestry was creepycool but I guess it doesn't register for me as a giant part of the book for the same reason i sort of mentally dismiss the ghosts: I understand the spot/role they play in the narrative but I would have been fine with the book not having them at all. (hide spoiler)]

Diane wrote: "You know, somehow I managed to totally forget about [spoilers removed]"

:)

I am so far behind it's pathetic, but I am working on reading this book. I'm between 1/3 to 1/2 through it. I like the setting, it somehow seems fitting. The oppressive heat and humidity of southern Mississippi (we lived there for six months about 30 years ago) adds to the over-all feeling that there is going to be major discomfort and unhappiness for the characters. It was immediately apparent that Bluebeard had targeted Sophia from childhood, and that no matter how charming he could be, he would not accept any disagreement with his wishes. I am finding the whole slavery issue an interesting twist to the story, but at the same time, feel it is taking too much of a central part of the plot instead of just a side issue. With all that being said, I'm actually surprised that I am enjoying this read, as I have never cared for the Bluebeard tale.

Lisa - I also automatically felt and associated the oppressive heat and humidity of the environment with the oppressive nature of the story/situation. It also seemed fitting to me to imagine Sophia just kind of going with the flow in that situation. Heat and humidity induced languidity. (er, I don't think languidity is actually a word but i hope you know what I mean!)

Understand exactly what you mean, Diane. Honestly, I just keep wondering why the tree roaches haven't made an appearance.

Lisa wrote: "Understand exactly what you mean, Diane. Honestly, I just keep wondering why the tree roaches haven't made an appearance."

Heehee on the tree roaches. I'm from Texas, another hot, humid locale with tons of tree roaches! EEK!!!! Lisa, glad to hear you're enjoying the read. I love Bluebeard. Even though it's so dark, there's so much psychological truth to it when it comes to bad marriages and domestic violence! So... the dressing up thing... i couldn't help but think of this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/art...
Is Kanye dressing Kim;)

Seriously! I can't imagine any woman purposely choosing to wear those clothes.

Lisa wrote: "Seriously! I can't imagine any woman purposely choosing to wear those clothes."

I get the creepy feeling she's his "doll." But doesn't that ring true with (view spoiler)[ Bernard making Sophia dress up in all those costumes?! (hide spoiler)]

I'm still not sure if Sophia actually enjoys the comfort of them, or just wears them to keep him in good humor.

I got the impression it was mixed. Even though she seemed aware it was odd, she enjoyed them, and also wore them to keep in good humor.

Sorry for not commenting sooner. I finally finished this book Sunday night. I didn't find the aspect of the wives spirits unusual at all, in fact, it totally made sense to me that they wouldn't be able to rest peacefully and would want to somehow warn another potential victim. The only thing I would have found unusual is if each wife hadn't tried to warn the next victim prior to their marriage. I was actually satisfied how the issue of slavery was handled. At first it seemed too prominent, but as the story continued, although it was always an obvious aspect, it faded into the background of the main tale. The use of the hair to form a bracelet and part of the tapestry didn't make much sense to me. It was obvious from the beginning of the tale that Bernard chose red haired women, so the use of their hair just seemed like something that was just thrown in as an un-needed filler detail. All together, though, I am still surprised at how much I enjoyed this read.

Lisa, thank you for joining the discussion:) Although it was a really mixed read for me, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Your point about the wives not being able to "rest peacefully" is a good one, I didn't think about that. After I made my original comment about the slavery issue, I did go look at some other reviews, because I was curious if I was the only person who read it that way, i.e. I'm not a fan of political correctness but, imho, slavery ranks up there with war, genocide, murder, and torture. Basically, subjugating the life force, will, body, mind, and spirit of another human being for economic gain, sadistic pleasure, and/or sexual satisfaction is pretty heinous. I would have appreciated Sophia, being young, and not previously exposed to slavery having a more visceral repugnance.

This well-written review really laid out my issues with how slavery was handled in the book (the comments on the review are worth reading as well!):

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Specifically: My main issue with the book though is the pre Civil-War Mississippi plantation setting and how this was incorporated into the story. This was bad; this was really, REALLY BAD. The book is populated with a series of POC characters, some of them house slaves, some of them cotton field ones and there is one freed slave as well. The problem is, these characters are not characters on their own and are there in relation to the white characters. Sophie for example is the Good Abolitionist, who wants to help the slaves. As such she sympathises, pities them and wants to help them. Which: fair enough. But she is so completely clueless about her privilege it is not even funny. At one point she sees slaves labouring in the cotton fields and pities them for their shabby clothes. She sees a pair of slaves who are in love and cannot get married and pities HERSELF for not having a love of her own. Priorities: she has them (not). And this could have served as an astute observation about Sophie’s naivety, except this is not questioned and only serves to illustrate Sophie’s forward-thinking and goodness. The same way that the ill treatment of the slaves serves only to illustrate the villain’s villainy.

Short version, my take, I found:

1. Sophie's shallow response
2. The use of slavery as a plot device...

Well, it just offended me. Sorry! (view spoiler)[I did appreciate Sophia's older sister's confrontation of Bernard. Pulling things apart to the nth decree, I'd say her back-pedaling the next day is an unfortunate depiction of how our values collapse in the face of economic threat. SO THAT part of the book I thought was extremely well done. (hide spoiler)]

And, as I've mentioned Bernard's creepy-controlling of Sophia was also deft. So, yeah, for me mixed. But I'd wanted to read it for a long time, so I'm glad we did as a group.

And I really enjoy these discussions, and sincerely hope, we create a place here where we can all share our opinions regardless of whether they coincide or differ. I think it makes for richer discourse!

I do agree with you in pretty much all aspects. Frankly, the setting could have been the same, just a different time frame (more recent) chosen and the tale would still work well. If that had been done, then the entire slavery issue would not have even needed to be addressed. I did like they way Sophie's sister confronted Bernard, but at the same time I found it rather two faced, since she was totally willing to "sell" her own sister for monetary gain.

Lisa wrote: "Frankly, the setting could have been the same, just a different time frame (more recent) chosen and the tale would still work well.."

Yes, in that case, the main change would have had to be the confrontation between Bernard and Sophia's older sister. It could have been a confrontation about how he treated Sophia. Which might have kept it more aligned with the original Bluebeard story. OR... even about his dead wives!!!!! That could have made for some riveting dialogue!!!...

Lisa wrote: "I did like they way Sophie's sister confronted Bernard, but at the same time I found it rather two faced, since she was totally willing to "sell" her own sister for monetary gain."

Me too. I loved it when she confronted Bernard, and then, was like, huh?!!!!