SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Welcome to the BR for Becky Chambers’ new novella To Be Taught, If Fortunate! As always, please use spoiler tags and let folks know what chapter/part you’re on. Looking forward to the discussion!

Quiet vacation night: did bit of a headstart, and already went through this twice. Chambers' trademark feel-good crew and narration, with a pleasantly grounded premise. Absolutely loved it, and can't wait to see people's reactions.

My book downloaded this morning!

I’m going to join for this. I have it ready to go 😀

Wow. The book came out this evening and I've already been lapped twice! Go Jemppu!

So far this isn't drawing me in like the Wayfarer books did but I'm still early on in it.

Aecor, pre-landing (pages 18-20): (view spoiler)[She has a discussion here that's specifically why I'm feeling a little grumpy about the start of this book. I'm, intellectually at least, having trouble buying into the argument for the necessity of crewed space exploration when we're starting to live the climate changes she mentions and when the crewed space flight work where I am, at least, is becoming so strongly politicized, militarized, and commercialized. So it comes across as discouragingly "too soon" to seem plausible. I love the solution but it's so far away.

I'm getting more into it as she changes focus to the crew and destinations. Besides... Glitter! (hide spoiler)]

My book arrived via the mail yesterday. :)

After the prologue, a great first line: “I never knew an Earth that was unaware of life elsewhere.” This is exactly why I read SF.

Just bought it on Kindle, but don’t know when I’ll be able to start it. I’m only about 1/4 through Downbelow Station.

Diane wrote: "Just bought it on Kindle, but don’t know when I’ll be able to start it. I’m only about 1/4 through Downbelow Station."

I saw a meme the other day that is perfectly true: “I believe that buying books and reading books are separate hobbies.”

Raucous wrote: "Aecor, pre-landing (pages 18-20): "

I also had a bit of a disbelieving reaction to this. (view spoiler)[I mean, it's a lovely idea, but it seemed so far fetched. However, by the end I had lost my mild annoyance. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I felt this was quite profound. No spoilery details, but general impressions of the whole thing: (view spoiler)[Early on I was prone to quibble with small details, but after finishing and reading the ending, this feels more to me like a parable: It's less the specifics that are important, and it's more about the questions it raises. (hide spoiler)]

Specifically, (view spoiler)[in the beginning I was sort of torn over the rose-colored view of everything. I mean, I hate drama for drama's sake, but it felt a little too shiny: Everyone on Earth came together to support science and discovery! Now we have this crew of 4 consummate scientists who all get along really well and are thoughtful and respectful! Oh, the wonder of discovery!

But once things fall apart on Earth, and they're coping with the questions of whether they should even be exploring these places at all, given that they can cause harm despite their best efforts, I understood the purpose of the beginning parts. Maybe this exploration can be justified if they are doing it on behalf of (effectively) all of humankind... but is it still a moral thing to do if it's just satisfying their own personal curiosity?
(hide spoiler)]

Trike, that is absolutely true. And I’m a much better collector of books than a reader of books.

My library copy is in processing now, so hopefully it shows up soon for me to read.

I finished the first part just now and am really enjoying this so far. Especially (view spoiler)[the dynamics between the characters and the description of them seeing the creatures underneath the ice for the first time. (hide spoiler)]

Still in the queue for my library copy, been checking the website 3 times a day but no movement.

Amanda wrote: "Still in the queue for my library copy, been checking the website 3 times a day but no movement."

A watched ebook never comes off hold.

Mine is on my iPad ready to go. If I ever see it in paperback I’ll probably buy that though. I like collecting books. I have definitely collected more than I’ll read lately.

I just finished and I think I'll need to sit with this for a while.
I feel a bit blindsided by the ending, but it felt entirely fitting.
For now, I will say that this story moved me very deeply, especially because chambers is so good at creating believable characters and tracing their relationships.

About a third of the way through. Enjoying it so far. I’ll get back to you when I get a bit further through. And when I can use the computer and spoiler tags.

Mareike wrote: "I just finished and I think I'll need to sit with this for a while.
I feel a bit blindsided by the ending, but it felt entirely fitting..."

Also finished and quite surprised by the finale. It is surprising if you remember their earlier steps of disregarding notes of the one, who now has to make an ultimate decision.

I just finished the Mirabilis section, and I have a question: (view spoiler)[do or don't they have FTL communication? There are a couple places where it sounds like it will take a full 14 years for news to travel to them, and others where it seems like less. Or did it take them 10 years to get from Aecor to Mirabilis? (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "I just finished the Mirabilis section, and I have a question: [spoilers removed]"

Seems they don't, at least not explicitly mentioned

Kaa wrote: "I just finished the Mirabilis section, and I have a question: [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Pretty sure that no, they don't. I think everything they receive from Earth is ~14 years late. What were the parts where it seemed to be otherwise? Maybe they were just speaking about it in more present tense because the news was new to then? (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "I just finished the Mirabilis section, and I have a question: ..."

(view spoiler)[I found this confusing as well. They say explicitly that news they receive is 14 years out of date. So no, they don't have FTL communications. But there's also discussion about downloading news. I missed where they were downloading it from. If the ship is doing it as the transmission wavefront passes shouldn't messages be accumulating while they're in transit too, both on the way to the star and while they're in torpor between planets? Yet the message counts here seem to be only from when they're awake and working. The way they're counting and receiving seems to imply direct download from Earth. The rest doesn't. So this all doesn't quite add up for me. (hide spoiler)]

I thought that (view spoiler)[Earth was sending a report at regular intervals (weekly?), and the ship received them roughly 14 years later. The ship kept receiving the reports even while they were in transit, and then when they woke from torpor, there was news waiting for them, right? (hide spoiler)]

Thanks. I think maybe it's just the wording that's confusing me? (view spoiler)[Like when they're talking about not having any news for 28 years, which is true, but feels misleading when the news they are getting is from 'only' 14 years after their departure, at most. Part of it is probably that I'm having trouble keeping track of the timeline - I wasn't sure until they got to Opera that there were actually several years of travel between each destination. (hide spoiler)]

There's just something that feels a little off, from time to time.

re: downloading news (view spoiler)[I guess the word choice is to have steaming (getting as it comes) and downloading (getting news any time after they came). News updates are monthly. and 28 years is about replying to the news (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "...There's just something that feels a little off, from time to time."

I can see that! I think I just assumed it worked a certain way and my brain filled in the gaps/places that lacked clarity.

I have nothing to add other than to agree the news thing is initially confusing.

I did just finish the book, though. I thought it was fine. Nothing groundbreaking, but nothing irritating, either,

Hmm. This was maybe a timing thing, but I didn't love this as much as I was hoping to. I liked the ending, but I never really got over the "quibble over small details" phase (view spoiler)[I often enjoy meandering books where not much happens, plotwise, but the past couple weeks I've been much more interested in event/plot-based books, and this is definitely not one of those. I may try it again when I'm feeling more in the mood for this kind of book.

I thought the questions at the end about the responsibilities of scientists and the ethics of pursuit of knowledge were really interesting, and I wish that this had been a stronger theme through the rest of the book. It felt like all of the reveals at the end came somewhat out of nowhere, and weren't well supported by the previous adventures in the various worlds. That was especially disappointing because the the whole conceit was that the background was supposed to be important to understand the question at the end, and I just didn't feel that. (hide spoiler)]

Ummmm OK.....just got to process this for a while.

Raucous wrote: "Aecor, pre-landing (pages 18-20): She has a discussion here that's specifically why I'm feeling a little grumpy about the start of this book. I'm, intellectually at least, having trouble buying int..."

Becky Chamber has a thing for utopias. I had a simlimar thought when I read Record of a Spaceborn Few.

Aecor

Finished with the first adventure. It is the kind of philosophical low-key I would expect from this author. Wondering why (view spoiler)[the floating girl on the cover doesn't have glittery skin or a bald head (hide spoiler)]. Solid character building so far. The science seem legit enough. I readily suspend my disbelief, so on to Mirabilis.

The aspect I had the hardest time with was the typical Super Science stuff where things never break. I was looking at my sneakers yesterday as I was dressing to walk the dogs and was annoyed by the fact part of the right shoe had pulled apart for no apparent reason. Saturday I was going to the store and my year-old car refused to go into reverse, which is concerning.

Yet here is a complicated spaceship that is more than half a century old at the beginning of the story yet everything works flawlessly for years and years. It’s not a huge deal, but I think that was something this story needs for verisimilitude.

Trike wrote: "Yet here is a complicated spaceship that is more than half a century old at the beginning of the story yet everything works flawlessly for years and years. "

It is because it was made with a heart and not by greedy corporations, who made your sneakers and your car. /sarcasm

Oleksandr wrote: "It is because it was made with a heart and not by greedy corporations, who made your sneakers and your car. /sarcasm"

LOL!!!

Oleksandr wrote: "Trike wrote: "Yet here is a complicated spaceship that is more than half a century old at the beginning of the story yet everything works flawlessly for years and years. "

It is because it was mad..."

Hah! Yeah, this is good point. Especially since the main character is the engineer, it would have added a lot to see her earning her keep, instead of just running checks and helping everyone else.

Trike wrote: "...Yet here is a complicated spaceship that is more than half a century old at the beginning of the story yet everything works flawlessly for years and years...."

Yeah. I had trouble with that too. They're not that far in our future.

Ending: (view spoiler)[That was also a big problem with the ending for me. They're going to put themselves into torpor for a potentially unlimited time in the hopes that someone will get back to them? So much could go wrong there. I never wrote software like that. I can't imagine living my life that way either. (hide spoiler)]

Raucous wrote: "Ending"

Agreed. Moreover, through the book they are proactive, they make decisions, even unpleasant ones (view spoiler)[killing hideaway for example (hide spoiler)]. And in the end they are (view spoiler)[we can't decide, maybe Earth is dead, maybe if we return we could save someone. Call us if you want or we'll slowly fade away (hide spoiler)]

I'll have to come back to this later as only a few of the libraries to which I have access have this book, and there's a long waiting list. Never fear, though, I will get to it!

I was just notified that my hold is waiting for me at the library. Yay! I hope to pick it up later this week and catch up with the rest of you.

Oleksandr wrote: "Raucous wrote: "Ending"

Agreed. Moreover, through the book they are proactive, they make decisions, even unpleasant ones [spoilers removed]. And in the end they are [spoilers removed]"

I didn't see this as indecision. (view spoiler)[It felt more like a moral question to me. When they're fulfilling their original mission, they will do what needs to be done, but part of that is that they feel like they have the endorsement and backing of, basically, all of Earth. When they have to make a decision about where to go next, they didn't feel like they could do the same things they had been doing (exploring new moons/planets) just because *they* wanted to. They felt that in order to expand their mission, they needed the support of humanity, and not just of the four of them. I'm not sure I can get behind that choice, but it definitely didn't read as indecisive to me. (hide spoiler)]

Well, my ebook hold came in so hopefully I have a chance to start on this soon. My fingers are itching to click all the spoilers in this thread.

Ariana wrote: "I didn't see this as indecision."

(view spoiler)[For me their situation was similar to the following:

You live with your family. The family collects money to send you to college. Then a hurricane hits your hometown, all communications are out. The government decides not to initiate a rescue operation, saying, let the fittest survive. You can continue what you do in the collage or you can get back (with resources!) and try to help. They take the third alternative - to doze off waiting for a call. (hide spoiler)]

Oleksandr wrote: "
For me their situation was similar to the following:"

Hah! Great analogy. Except maybe (view spoiler)[you've finished with college and you still haven't heard back, and you're like, "So... should I just stay for graduate school?"

Except the main difference is that staying at college (or graduate school 🙂) isn't going to hurt anyone except maybe yourself (is that degree really worth your time?).

I think this is where that intense scene where they had to kill that creature comes back to play a major role. They know that despite their best efforts, they might cause harm on these new planets they might visit, and they don't feel like they have the moral authority to make that decision in their own.

So, maybe it's more like... Your parents loan your their car so you can go to the grocery store and when you're done at the store, you call them and the phone is dead, and you're like, "maybe I should go home like we had discussed... OR MAYBE I SHOULD DRIVE TO MEXICO?" Except there's *really* no good analogy for waiting in torpor for more information.
(hide spoiler)]

Another thought: what is the significance of the title? Is it a quote from somewhere?

Trike wrote: "Another thought: what is the significance of the title? Is it a quote from somewhere?"

Yes. (view spoiler)[As the Secretary General of the United Nations, an organisation of one hundred and forty seven member states who represent almost all of the human inhabitants of the planet Earth, I send greetings on behalf of the people of our planet. We step out of our solar system into the universe seeking only peace and friendship – to teach, if we are called upon; to be taught, if we are fortunate. We know full well that our planet and all its inhabitants are but a small part of this immense universe that surrounds us, and it is with humility and hope that we take this step.
– Former UN Secretary General Kurt Waldheim, 1977, as recorded on the Voyager Golden Record (hide spoiler)]

Ariana wrote: "Hah! Great analogy. Except maybe "

Ok, Graduate school is an adequate change to the story but (view spoiler)[a car analogy is wrong - we know that a catastrophe has happened, all/most electronics was fried, so I guess at least several billions dead in the first year - they are unable to collect and transport a harvest, most med equipment is off, transport stopped... EMP will be catastrophic in our time, but in the future it can be worse (hide spoiler)]

Oleksandr wrote: "Trike wrote: "Another thought: what is the significance of the title? Is it a quote from somewhere?"

Yes. As the Secretary General of the United Nations, an organisation of one hundred and forty s..."

Well that was dumb of me. It’s actually in the book!

I blame the anesthetic they gave me today. Yeah, that’s it. (Not randomly taking hits of meds, I was at the hospital for a procedure today.) Or I’m just dumb. Prolly the latter.

Oleksandr wrote: "Ariana wrote: "Hah! Great analogy. Except maybe "

Ok, Graduate school is an adequate change to the story but [spoilers removed]"

Once again, this text based medium fails to capture facetiousness. 🙂