Wholesome History Reads Group discussion

Welcome!
This is a thread for discussing books on The Great War. Enjoy, and have fun!

One of my favorite books on WWI is: Lawrence of Arabia. I think I've read the book about three times....

I have read two great books on Lawrence of Arabia that may interest you Ethan:



Hero: The Life and Legend of Lawrence of Arabia by Michael Korda

Lawrence: The Uncrowned King of Arabia by Michael Asher

Those look good. Thanks Rick! I've wanted to learn more about him.

They are both excellent books but both take a different angle to discuss the man.

I've tried to read a couple of WWI books this centenary year and enjoyed these:
Adrian Gilbert
by Sean McMeekin

by Greg King

by

Geevee wrote: "I've tried to read a couple of WWI books this centenary year and enjoyed these:
Adrian Gilbert
by Sean McMeekin

[b..."

They look good. Will check them out! I'm wanting to get more into reading about the First World War, too. Also, do you know any good book on the Western Front because I'm about a quarter of a way through writing a novel about it and would like to learn more about the Western Front so I can add more detail to my book.

Thanks Geevee!

Hi EThan,
This is a good starter. Richard Holmes was a fine author and presenter/lecturer as well as being a all round good bloke.

If this is too general then let me know.

by Richard Holmes

Geevee wrote: "Hi EThan,
This is a good starter. Richard Holmes was a fine author and presenter/lecturer as well as being a all round good bloke.

If this is too general then let me know.

[bookcover:The Western..."

That looks good. Thanks! My book is a fictional first-hand account of a British soldier fighting on the Western Front. Sort of like "All Quiet on the Western Front" but it has some different twists to it. Also, do know of a real first-hand account on the subject? I'd also like to read a book like that to help me with my book and make it feel more real. Good suggestion, though!

Here are a couple of recent accounts that I enjoyed:


by E.P.F. Lynch

by Michael Walsh


This is one I am yet to read but is supposed to be very good:

by J.C. Dunn

Another great book made up of first-hand accounts:

by Max Arthur

Any books by Lyn McDonald.

Nice lot there. Thanks Rick!

Echo Rick's suggestions and here are some more:

by Sidney Rogerson

by William Orpen

by Robert Graves

by F.P. Crozier

by Huntly Gordon

by Frederic Manning

The Weary Road: Recollections of a Subaltern of Infantry by Charles Douie

A Subaltern's Odyssey: Memoirs Of The Great War, 1915 1917 by R. B Talbot Kelly

by Max Plowman

As From Kemmel Hill: An Adjutant In France And Flanders, 1917 & 1918 by Arthur Behrend

Wow! Thanks for all those, Geeve. Will definitely check them out when I have more time. They all sound great.

I just finished Eric Larson's new book on the sinking of the Lusitania



good entertaining read

my thoughts for anyone interested

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Great review Happy and it is a pretty engaging book.

@happy Thanks for the review! I've gotta read that book.

The Last of the Doughboys: The Forgotten Generation and Their Forgotten World War

This Kindle book is on sale for $1.99 on Amazon today ... I'm looking forward to reading it.

Nice purchase Cindy, I hope you enjoy the book.

@Cindy Nice! That's a great deal. Enjoy!

Cindy wrote: "The Last of the Doughboys: The Forgotten Generation and Their Forgotten World War

This Kindle book is on sale for $1.99 on Amazon today ... I'm looking forward to reading it."

great book! I read it a couple of years ago.

My kids got me this one for my birthday



Now I just have to get it on the reading schedule. I have a problem reading books that I actually own. I normally have 8 to 10 books out from the library at any one time and somehow those seem to take priority :)

Aaah, those damn reading schedules, never seem to get any further ahead sometimes :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Aaah, those damn reading schedules, never seem to get any further ahead sometimes :)"
Lol!

I just finished



I thougt it was a decent read, but way to short, less that 200 pages

my thoughts, if anyone is interested

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

@happy Nice review! The books sounds interesting. Wow yeah, that is a short one though!

I recently read

The Kaiser's Army: The German Army in World War One

If anyone is interested, I've finally typed up my thoughts

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Good look at the inner workings of the Imperial German Army, but I thought a rather dry read.

@happy Thanks for posting! Sounds like an interesting subject. Great, long review as well. Thanks again!

Great review Happy, thanks for sharing.

For anyone interested my thoughts on



https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Battle field deaths are written about and are a little graphic, but not to grusome

@happy Wow, another awesome review! I love your in depth analyses of the books you read. :) Very helpful! That one sounds right up my alley. Added to my TBR list. Thanks again!

Good review Happy.

I have just started the book cited below. It is a brick but has started out pretty quickly....moving right along and giving some real insight into the mess created in the Middle East/Ottoman Empire which still resonates today.

by David Fromkin

Keep us posted Jill, its an interesting area of history that Fromkin covers.

I have just finished The Australian Victories of 1918 by John Monash. We all owe a debt to the Australian Corps for their efforts in the Great War and their victories which led to an earlier end to the war.

Betsy wrote: "I have just finished The Australian Victories of 1918 by John Monash. We all owe a debt to the Australian Corps for their efforts in the Great War and their victories which led to an earlier end to..."

That's a classic account Betsy, I'm really glad you managed to find a copy of the book and had the time to read it.

Finished the book noted in post 31 and enjoyed it. The Ottoman Empire was falling apart rapidly and just couldn't quite decide whose side they should take in WWI. We still feel the results to the present day. I would recommend this book.

by David Fromkin

Sounds like a book I should try and read at some stage, thanks for the update and comments Jill.

Am now casting my eyes on a book that has been sitting on my shelves forever and for some reason I have never read it. I really enjoy this author's work and have no excuse for neglecting it so long. Picked it up at a book sale last year and I can bet that you all have already read it.

by John Willard Toland

Jill wrote: "Am now casting my eyes on a book that has been sitting on my shelves forever and for some reason I have never read it. I really enjoy this author's work and have no excuse for neglecting it so long..."

Looks good Jill. I'm underprepared for the 1918 centenary, I'll have to do some shopping around!

Oh my, the eleventh month, the eleventh day, and the eleventh hour will be upon us before we know it and I almost forgot about it being the centenary. I wonder what plans will be made to celebrate it since WWI seems to be an almost forgotten war and is overshadowed by WWII and Vietnam. Do they even study it in school anymore?

Jill wrote: "Oh my, the eleventh month, the eleventh day, and the eleventh hour will be upon us before we know it and I almost forgot about it being the centenary. I wonder what plans will be made to celebrate ..."

From what I understand Germany has no plans.

Author and historian Joseph E. Persico highlighted U.S. Army Capt. George K. Livermore in the very first introductory sentence of his book “11th Month, 11th Day, 11th Hour: Armistice Day, 1918”. There is a unique connection between my grandfather Marine Corps Pvt Ove Mortensen 66th Co. 1/5 2nd Division and U.S. Army Capt. George K. Livermore of the 92nd Division. Capt. Livermore was mustered out of the army on May 1, 1919 and within a few weeks set up residence in Winchester, Massachusetts. Following the Occupation of Germany, my grandfather was relieved of his Marine Corps service on August 13, 1919 and returned to his parents and hometown of Winchester apparently within a mile of Capt. Livermore’s residence. Following the first Armistice Day after the war (11/11/1919), Capt. Livermore sent a letter on Nov. 12, 1919 to his U.S. Representative Alvan T. Fuller questioning needless deaths on the final day of WWI. Congressman Fuller forwarded the letter to General Pershing for a reply. Following Congressional hearings on the topic it’s interesting to note Pershing’s reply mentioned Marine deaths too: “The casualty records show that on Nov 11 the 92d Division lost 17 killed and 286 wounded, of whom 99 were gassed. The casualty records of the marines show that their losses on Nov. 11 were 9 killed and 172 wounded.” The my grandfather along with USMC Major Hamilton and other Marines crossed the Meuse River around 10:30 pm on 11/10/1918 and close to 40 Marines died on this mission between this time period and Armistice.

My grandfather, with Major Hamilton USMC and a small contingent of other Marines were the last Americans to hear the war was over. They officially heard the news at 1:30 PM 11/11/1918. I believe my grandfather, must have had conversations with Capt. Livermore concerning the last day of the war.

Several years ago I spoke with Mr. Persico and mentioned the possible connection between my grandfather and Livermore. He wished he knew that before his book was published. I further asked him if he was aware that one of Capt. Livermore’s best friends was W. Averill Harriman. He was also unaware of that connection. During the 1950’s Mr. Persico was employed as a writer and researcher for then New York Governor W. Averill Harriman.

Joseph E. Persico

What a fascinating story, Mark. Did your grandfather live long enough to tell you about his experiences?

I was close to 28 years old when he passed away in 1980. As his first grandson I possessed his severely dented WWI helmet and very curious about his military experience. The "Devil Dog" was very proud of the Marine Corps and America (he immigrated from Denmark) however he did not wish to discuss the war. Following high school I even lived with my grandparents on Cape Cod and within a mile of them my four college summers.

When he passed away I was more than determined to research his past. I found a very historical letter that he had written to his parents following Armistice from Luxembourg on the march to occupy Germany. The letter published in the Winchester Star newspaper detailed much of his experience and led me to his battalion commander Major Hamilton. As much as my my grandfather tried to forget the war I'm certain in the late 1930's he named his part collie dog "Major" to honor Major Hamilton.

Jill wrote: "Oh my, the eleventh month, the eleventh day, and the eleventh hour will be upon us before we know it and I almost forgot about it being the centenary. I wonder what plans will be made to celebrate ..."

Well the youngest had Remembrance Day explained to him last year, Rick posted some photo links on the Great War thread that I showed him, be asked if the guys in the group photos team had scored a goal! Beyond that nothing, my eldest taught himself via Terry Dreary Horrible Histories: Frightful First World War but has so far resisted any attempt to read my introduction to the subject; Charley's War, Volume 1: 2 June – 1 August 1916 - and the other nine volumes! Just don't get me started on the BBC coverage...

I got the shock of my life when I mentioned Pearl Harbor to one of my friend's teenage daughters who makes good grades and is an all around good student. She said "What's Pearl Harbor?". So maybe they aren't teaching WWII either. It stuns me that history seems to be taking a back seat to whatever they are teaching these days.

Jill wrote: "Am now casting my eyes on a book that has been sitting on my shelves forever and for some reason I have never read it. I really enjoy this author's work and have no excuse for neglecting it so long..."

Hi Jill, I really enjoyed that book when I first read it in 1981, I hope you enjoy it as much.

Valerie and Ed were having a good discussion on the Intro thread about the importance of the First World War in connection with WWII. The centenary of WWI hopefully will bring with it additional study of the conflict although there are some terrific books out there now. I look at the Versailles Treaty as a focal point of the troubles that ensued. The German military never felt that they were beaten and themselves, did not surrender. That led to the "stab in the back" theory which was built upon by militarists in the 1920-30's and certainly by Hitler. WWII was basically a continuation of WWI, with a short period of non-military encounters in between.

Have you seen this book Jill, it fills some of the gap between the World Wars:

The Vanquished: Why the First World War Failed to End, 1917-1923 by Robert Gerwarth

Yes I have, AR. Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't it give some attention to the feeling of the military leadership and their feeling that they never surrendered, therefore Germany didn't really lose the war.

I think that was one string of the narrative Jill but I haven't read the book but flicked through it will trying to decide to buy a copy or not, maybe I'll put it on my Christmas list :)

I just finished reading the book cited below and, although it is about WWII German generals, the majority of them were in the Great War as well and that attitude of "stab-in-the back" was mentioned several times.....especially with the older of Hitler's commanders. They would never admit that the military lost the Great War and it certainly is food for thought. Germany just didn't have the resources left to continue to fight, people were starving and Austria/Hungary was a total loss at that point. The government was a mess, the Kaiser was incompetent, so the politicians stepped forward and signed the Treaty of Versailles. I don't know why I am repeating things you already know but I find the connection between the two war particularly fascinating from a political standpoint.

by Correlli Barnett