The Pelicans’ Nest discussion

Chapter 9: Perspectives and Prescription

Well, he did not convince me that there is a wide spread malice against Spain. The use of incendiary language gave this book a feel of propaganda in its own right, rather than a work of pure scholarship. There were too many general statements without the careful documentation needed to convince me. That said, we all need to be careful not to perpetuate negative stereotypes of any culture. We need to continue to promote historical research to make sure that the record is as accurate as possible. And we need to be absolutely intolerant of generalizations about any group today, especially the most vulnerable. There are no "shit hole" countries. Refugees and migrants are not rapists and murders and terrorists and human traffickers. If 15th century Dutch pamphhlets and Italian plays could tarnish a group of people for 500 years, how much more so could comments made by powerful people promulgated by 21st century mass media.

Were ypu able to check out the primary source documents I linked to?

I was wondering where the incendiary language was. I read the book last month and this month, and I missed it.

Now, when it comes to Mexico and partially to Spain, I have become very familiar with the history as I have been studying that in particular since I was engaged to my wife 5 years ago. I decided to learn her language and the history of her people. As for the rest of Latin America, I am ignorant.

It is very true that the history books in the USA promote a false history, and I learned the actual history before finding this book. My wife explained to me that the Freemasons created an official history in order to combat Catholicism. That official history is aided by the Black Legend and is what we are taught in school here (and in Mexico).

If you do some of the “further reading” you will get into the meat and potatoes of the history without a word of Black Legendism.

When I began to study the history of Mexico and found that what I learned in school was all lies, it aggravated me. When I would talk to people and they brushed off my input as false, that was aggravating as well, especially being that I have now read so many of the primary source materials. When I came across this book I was elated, as it was a simple book that conveyed the apologia I was in need of. I did not like his style of writing, especially in the first half of the book, but his content is on point as far as I can tell.

The book, Mexico Land of Volcanoes has my highest recommendation. My wife turned me onto it. She has it in Spanish. That is a full history of Mexico, beautifully written and quite engaging.

No, I have not read the primary sources you linked to. My reading time is already overloaded with books. This is not the topic I would have gravitated to. I appreciate the chance to be introduced to a new idea, but I don't want to dedicate significant time to studying this topic at this point in my life.

The language that struck me as incendiary was the use of loaded terms such as "heretic" for Protestant, describing the western Europeans as highly unethical use of the printing press when they published pamphlets of propaganda (if that is the case, I can't think of any European or most colonial people that are not guilty of unethical use of the printing press), and other similar use of highly charged language.

I know that there was a period when Catholics denigrated Freemasons, blaming them for all sorts of terrible deeds. I thought that those accusations were largely debunked.

Oh, no. The Masons are quite evil and anti Catholic. It is much less apparent in the USA as this is a country that was founded in an anti Catholic vein, and even in the early 20th century many of thr Masons here were uneasy with what was happening in Mexico, though Masons here were largely supporting the murderous and genocidal Madonoc government of Mexico at the time.

If you read “Mexican Martyrdom” or “No God Next Door”, the second one moreso, you will get some contemporary writings concerning the Masonic issue in North America. Those two books were written rapidly, for the purpose of getting our government to stop funding the Masons in Mexico as they were murdering and torturing Catholics, and to help the KofC raise money in support of the Catholics in Mexico. The movie “For the Greater Glory” covers it, though I do not remember it highlighting the Masonic aspect. That government was thoroughly Masonic, and that was where their anti Catholic motivations came from. In many countries it is a stark war between the two.

Were the Freemasons more culpable of human rights violations in Mexico than the Catholic Church was of human rights violations in Haiti as it supported the Tonton Macoot. Wow, that is spelled wrong

I do not know the history of Haiti. The Catholic Church is why we have human rights to the extent wr have them, do there really is no way to compare the two on that level.

Christopher wrote: "I do not know the history of Haiti. The Catholic Church is why we have human rights to the extent wr have them, do there really is no way to compare the two on that level."
I am not sure I agree that the Catholic Church is why we have human rights at the level we do. Maybe I am not sure who the "we" is. The Catholic Church has not always stood up for human rights. It was often 50 years late and out of breath when it cane to many social issues. At the same time, we certainly have a fantastic body of documents that speak eloquently to human rights. But, the church has a mixed history, bishops and the leaders of religious communities who validated abusive and horribly unjust regimes and bishops and other Church leaders who have given their lives fighting for the rights of thhe oppressed. But the Church has not necessarily been the leader in every fight for human rights and often provided a theology that justified the oppressor and silenced the oppressed.