Pulp Fiction discussion

Writers and readers writers must have known of the ”Series Noir,” and of the term “film noir” in the 40s and 50s.Certainly “black” appeared in many titles. But did noir? I suppose not.

Neither the OED or the American Oxford Dictionary have entries for “noir.” They do for “film noir.” The latter dictionary (3rd ed., 2010) states film noir “originally applied to American thriller and detective films made on period 1944-54 by a group of French critics and to the work of Lang, Welles, and Wilder.” Origin of the term is placed in mid-20th century.

In his article (about 1997) on noir fiction (https://noirfiction.info/what2.htm ) George Tuttle states, “I had observed that the French use of the term “noir” was not identical to the American use of the term. For the French, roman noir is the hardboiled novel. The Americans hijacked the word noir, scraped off the roman and tacked on fiction and adopted it as something distinct.” Americans seem to use the term to identify a type of hardboiled fiction where “themes of loneliness, despair, sexual obsession, and hard luck are prevalent.” He does not say when the Yanks did this hijacking.
There are important distinctions between hard boiled and noir . Eddie Duggan has a good one: In noir, the primary focus is interior: psychic imbalance leading to self-hatred, aggression, sociopathy, or a compulsion to control those with whom one shares experiences. By contrast, hard boiled “paints a backdrop of institutionalized social corruption.”

I wonder why neither the advertisements for pulp crime novels of the 40s through the 60s, nor the writers themselves, used the term “noir” while referring to their fictions. I can see why the publishers thought the term “noir” would mean little to their readers, having little to do with adventure, sex, or suspenseful troubles harrying the protagonists. As for writers, they knew the value of setting, enticements to commit crimes, the borderline between sex and violence, and cruel twists of fate. Noir is a concept that critics need. "Hard boiled" is much more evocative--and American.
My tentative conclusion is that “noir” crime fiction was a term useful to academic and journalistic writers writing well after the classic period. Maybe then the American critics “hijacked “noir.” It is useful to criticism, but not part of the vocabulary of the period when Chandler, Thompson, Appel, McCoy, Willeford, Goodis, Woolrich, Williams, etc were doing their creative work.

Good call. I have often misused these terms when trying to fit one of my reads into a specific genre, and switched between noir and hardboiled with little thought about implications and context. A clarification is welcome for future reference.
Personally, when I began reading Chandler, Chase and Cheney (Peter) the main attraction was the departure from the rules of popular British 'whodunits'' with slick detectives investigating high society murders done in posh locations. The focus on hard luck, sexual manipulation, mental illness came much later. In my case the catalyst for a more careful reviewing came through a couple of French movies (Quay des Brumes, Le mariee etait en noir, Tirez sour le pianiste) that made me aware of the unwritten canon of 'noir'

Interesting post, Jay. For myself, I often use "hardboiled" for detective stories and "noir" in associations with crime stories, especially the ones from the criminal's point of view.

This is interesting--I know I don't contribute much to this group, but I like to read the posts and see what other are reading/talking about.

I like to think of noir as something where the lines of right and wrong seem mixed up--like in Postman always rings twice where we end up rooting for the murderer.

Hardboiled seems more like weary detectives who've seen it all but still keep trying to do the right thing.

Something I haven't put a lot of thought into, but it's interesting now that it's been brought up. Thanks, Jay

Very true. There are many novels most people would call noir that have heroes who may be persistent but are also without sufficient control of themselves or their situations (Bennie Muscles In, He Ran All the Way, Ride the Pink Horse, The Moon in the Gutter)

Algernon (Darth Anyan) wrote: "Good call. I have often misused these terms when trying to fit one of my reads into a specific genre, and switched between noir and hardboiled with little thought about implications and context. A ..."
The British "cozies" must have been written for a different readership, and published by upscale hardback publishers. American crime stories were for people who shared the problems of working class people who may have wanted thrillers, but were treated to much more by brilliant, although denigrated, writers. Well reputed "authors" like Hemingway sneered at them as "vulgar." I think they were secretly jealous, esp Hemingway. Woody Haut called this "fear of a working class readership." It's just as you say, American "roman noir" and "noir fiction" focused on bad luck, emotional disorientation, cosmic and political indifference, the "Big Fear" of postwar existence, esp. after Taft-Hartley and the Korean "Conflict.".

RJ wrote: "Interesting post, Jay. For myself, I often use "hardboiled" for detective stories and "noir" in associations with crime stories, especially the ones from the criminal's point of view."

An interesting distinction, RJ

I always consider the French Roman Noir to be an adaption of American film-noir and hard-boiled novel, adjusted to the French psyche. “themes of loneliness, despair, sexual obsession, and hard luck...” These themes are almost universal in any type of noir. It's just as applicable to Thompson as Manchette. It seems like the PBO authors are still, to this day, more popular in France than in the US. For instance, more Goodis novels are available in French than English.

The Japanese also adopted the form, beginning during the period of American occupation, but really exploding in terms of popularity and works published in the 1960's. Those novels and films bear a heavy American influence, but like in France the form has been adapted to fit local customs. Their values and concerns are more recognizably Japanese than American.

As for why it wasn't marketed as noir, the first book on the subject was published in French in 1955, and the term originated around the same time in the same country, so noir wouldn't have been in common usage in English during back when the major noir writers (Hammett, Chandler, Woolrich, Goodis, ETC) we're still actively publishing. What's more, some novelist we classify as noir and lived to publish longer than some of their peers, for instance James Cain, specifically rejected the label, not wanting to be labeled or defined.

Now that the idea of noir has crystallized and we have people who are fans not just of crime fiction, but of noir fiction specifically, books are more often sold to us explicitly as noir, because
1: There's a small but dedicated market for it
2: It helps those of us who are looking for noir distinguish it from other crime fiction or dramas.
3: At this point the word has a certain weight, it's a culture cachet.

Thank you.
Anthony Boucher said, "Mystery novelists have steadily improved until their best work has all the qualities of any fiction, while some mainstream writers have found, in the structural techniques of the mystery, a solid armature on which to shape their creations." But he added than when Faulkner or Du Maurier write a detective story, it is considered "a straight novel." This was in 1955, when he listed as the year's best mysteries Millar's Beast in View, Charlotte Jay's The Yellow Turban ("very top of serious novelists using the mystery form").

Boucher used the term "hard boiled," but not noir, in reviews anthologized (_Multiplying Villanies_) from 1942 to 1968. He did not need to, and seemed to believe it might create a niche that would make a false distinction between esoteric artist and mystery or crime entertainment.

I can see that the French "series noir", although those books began in the late 1940s, would not have created the same recognition factor for the "noir novel" in the minds of mystery genre readers as "film noir" did after the _Panorama of American Film Noir_ you mentioned. The term "film noir" seemed to be used in the US in the mid-50s. As you say, the idea of noir is now crystallized. But much later than the term "hard boiled" or "film noir."

I use "film noir" to refer to the cinematic incarnation and hardboiled crime fiction to the prose fiction myself.

Jay wrote: "The British "cozies" must have been written for a different readership, and published by upscale hardback publishers. American crime stories were for people who shared the problems of working class people who may have wanted thrillers, but were treated to much more by brilliant, although denigrated, writers. "

In another group, we were discussing the Golden Age writers - nearly all British - versus American crime fiction of the same period. This comment is so spot on! Reading it, I immediately could see how the US came to have Raymond Chandler and Dorothy B. Hughes when the Brits had Agatha Christie and Dorothy L. Sayers.

Which then begs the question, is there Canadian Noir?

Carolyn wrote: "Which then begs the question, is there Canadian Noir?"

Ha! There must be. Authors? (for those of us who are ill-informed)

Article on Canadian Noir

https://strandmag.com/canadian-noir-eh/

Nice article, and a great list, thanks! It convinced me I'm on the right track writing murder mysteries in Northern Ontario.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Article on Canadian Noir

https://strandmag.com/canadian-noir-eh/"

Thanks for this Elizabeth. 'What about Scotland and Ireland? All of them are mostly full of ice and snow, and if the international surveys are to be believed, full of nice, happy people, too' isn't quite right though. It seldom snows in the former, and very rarely in the latter ;'-O

Brian wrote: "'What about Scotland and Ireland?"

Tartan noir is awesome!
https://murder-mayhem.com/tartan-noir...

"Tartan Noir", hmm. Should Canadian Noir be called Maple Leaf Noir? I think I like that!

Tom wrote: "Brian wrote: "'What about Scotland and Ireland?"

Tartan noir is awesome!
https://murder-mayhem.com/tartan-noir..."

Carolyn wrote: ""Tartan Noir", hmm. Should Canadian Noir be called Maple Leaf Noir? I think I like that!."

Or Mountie Noir.

I read somewhere the definition of Noir was when good or morally "neutral" people doing the wrong thing and pay the consequences. Double Indemnity, body heat, the long goodbye. If it doesn't meet this criteria for me, it's not noir. China Town is my favourite movie but to me it's not noir. Jack Nicholson does the right thing but it ends up very badly.

You are correct, but a noir story also can show people who are not culpable being made unhappy because of circumstances. And no one does the right thing all the time.

Many writers have protagonists who have little resources, little experience with evil, and little awareness of the maliciousness of others. Hell can be other people. Such protagonists can be found esp. in crime novels set in small towns, and poverty-beset areas of large cities. Many of David Goodis' novels are about people with compulsions that blind them or with the bad luck of being victims of momentary bad choices. Chinatown, to me, is essentially noir. Nicholson plays a peeper at cheating wives and husbands for money. He is not prepared for Noah Cross, who dominates "b/c I can." His name is a pun on no cross, as in the devil, maybe.

Tom wrote: "Brian wrote: "'What about Scotland and Ireland?"
Tartan noir is awesome!
https://murder-mayhem.com/tartan-noir..."

Hiya, Tom. Tartan Noir definitely fits the bill for Scotland, but the version from Ireland would have to be called Celtic. (This would have fitted the bill for both, but now that the Tartan umbrella's up and running...).

I was at an author event with Dennis Lehane once when he gave one of the best descriptions or noir ever:

In Greek tragedy heroes fall from great heights ... in noir they fall from the curb.