Our Shared Shelf discussion

I had a hard time believing there was really a ghost because I don’t believe in ghosts. That being said, I think it was important for the ghosts to feel real because that’s what they were to Sethe. She was haunted by her daughter, and the ghost personified her guilt and her grief. Sethe was so distraught that her mind may have created a personification/hallucination of what her daughter could be to alleviate her suffering. Sethe gives herself to Beloved, which is seen in her romantic relationships as well as her physical well-being. The spirits were also an important element because the former slaves were haunted by slavery even after it ended, so it is an effective way of using fiction to show the potentially more subtle impacts of slavery.

I'm not a believer in ghosts but I have no problem in believing in Beloved as a ghost. I'm really interested in books which use magical realism etc to examine issues that we struggle to look at directly.

i've been haunted by aspects of my past, so i could relate realistically on that level. the mind is a wondrous provider and protector for us.

Molly wrote: "OMG the story takes place in my state country, I'm so amazed by the realism of every scenes, niggas have been discriminated for so long, their life was so hard and I can say sometimes it's still th..."

Molly, it seems as if that discrimination is still there just by the fact that you use the very disrespectful term 'niggas'. Respect of others comes in may ways, and language use is a big one.

Emma wrote: "124 is a "spiteful house" and the neighbors avoid it because it is haunted. In addition, [spoilers removed] How did you deal with the themes of ghosts/spirits in Beloved? (Especially if you don't b..."

The whole thing about spirit was weird to me too, she killed her child to protect her, and the child is haunting her like she may have make a mistake. It looks a bit like "conjuring" The movie, but differently because of the whole context...

I didn't expect to enjoy the supernatural elements of the book, but I think the character of Beloved was needed in order to truly convey the sense of being haunted by the past.

One of my favourite images of the book takes place before Beloved arrives at 124: when Paul D, Sethe, and Denver go to the carnival together and their shadows appear to hold hands. I saw it as a gentle nod towards the supernatural as Denver could already see something that wasn't really there - it wasn't such a huge leap to me that Sethe's trauma and Denver's inherited trauma could then create someone as real as Beloved.

As Sethe, Beloved and Denver settled into their routine together, there were times when I almost forgot that Beloved was a spirit at all. When Stamp Paid starts asking other people if they know of someone staying with Sethe, I got anxious on Sethe's behalf. At that point in the story she was finally able to enjoy some of what she had missed over the last 18 years (e.g. ice skating, warm milk) and I didn't want anyone to disturb the cosy domesticity by asking questions. If Toni Morrison had explained directly that Beloved was a hallucination, I don't think I would have had the same emotional connection to the story.

I think Beloved’s ghost is kinda like Banquo’s ghost in Macbeth. In both works, the writers do not actually make it clear whether the ghosts are part of each character’s imagination or whether they were actually meant to exist. However, in both texts, the ghosts seem to remind the characters of their past actions, so it’s almost as if they are haunted by what they did and the ghosts are just a representation of that. In Macbeth, Macbeth is reminded of his murderous acts by Banquo’s ghost which appears during a feast, while in Beloved, Sethe is reminded of her past by the regular appearances of her dead daughter, Beloved’s, ghost.

Your comments have really deepened my reading of the book. It wasn’t (and it still isn’t) really clear to me that Beloved was a ghost or that it was of greater importance. Just because something is not physically real, it might still feel very real, I guess that’s what all the Mental Health Weeks and discussion are teaching us. For me, while reading, I thought there were some hints that Beloved might have been an imprisoned woman who just broke out (I might have misunderstood, English is not my mother tongue) and I liked the uncertainty of her status human/ghost. that of course left unclear why she knew so much about Sethe but I read it as a fantastic element. Maybe I need to read it again 🙃

Huh, I actually didn't even question it, so it's really interesting to see different point of views on that! In my case - I don't deny a possible existence of ghosts, who knows, but fully accepted that characters do believe in them and/so in their world they exist ( this connection between belief and its object, which as long as you believe in it, exists? ).
It was interesting to see such beliefs being a vital, natural part of society (that reminds me that it's them who created voodoo) and how ghost's existence might be interpreted in different ways- Sethe's desire to redeem herself, to prove once again her love and be able to live at peace.

Keeping symbolical aspect of ghost, Beloved, in mind, what her intercouses with Paul D would mean? How do you think?

F. S. wrote: "Keeping symbolical aspect of ghost, Beloved, in mind, what her intercouses with Paul D would mean? How do you think?"

"I am beloved and she is mine" - Sethe and Beloved are so intertwined that of course Paul D cannot have a relationship with Sethe without Beloved, and Beloved makes this known to Paul D. He is not able to even sleep in the house. We bring our past into our present relationships, and in the case of this story Sethe is completely consumed by her past, and thus Beloved's intercourse with Paul D reveals this to him.

Ah, well said! Somehow I just stopped at the thought that this way she displays her power over him, when it's true, it clearly shows the power of the past over present, in such an alignment with all story. Thank you!

Emma wrote: "124 is a "spiteful house" and the neighbors avoid it because it is haunted. In addition, [spoilers removed] How did you deal with the themes of ghosts/spirits in Beloved? (Especially if you don't b..."

I read it to be of "Beloved," the baby that haunted the house 124, actually possessed the body of the stranger whom they found by the side of the road. That person had a fever or whatnot and either transpired naturally or couldn't keep Beloved from taking over. Hence why when we have Beloved's POV she is constantly cold and going crazy with all sorts of voices in her head was either from the unnaturalness of a ghost possessing a body or the woman she possessed trying to fight back.