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So who defines “Quality” these days?
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Who defines quality? This is a very good question. But more to the point, how has quality changed? If you take a look at some of the early Pulitzer prize winners - you will more than blush. Quality is defined in literature as that which moves - causes a catharsis in its readers. It has nothing to do with numbers or money. Quality then, is something that an artist creates that moves its audience. The object of today's writer should be to get their work in the hands of as many readers as possible. Then you can determine how effective your work is or is not. it's survival of the fittest, and the nicest part about today's market is that everyone can get a fair chance, not just those who are connected to the great publishing houses, or went to the right colleges or prep schools. or just happened to fall into the hands of a newbie agent (as with Nicholas Sparks). Good literature like cream, can rise to the top - quality alone. Not everyone wants quality writing, so dime store novels prevail. Why even Mary Shelley wrote Frankestein on a dare to see if they could that one summer, create stories that would outsell the dime store novels of the day. So write as well as you can, verisimilitude and all that, and let's see if it moves the world. "Give me a place to write, and I can rule the world." to paraphrase a great philosopher.
Surely quality is defined by the reader. Readers, of course, may have appalling taste, but not more so than agents and publishers. I like what Robin has to say about the changing role of the gatekeepers, though it has been a long time since they were motivated by anything other than commercial considerations--will it sell?--but we part company on the subject of Gerard Manley Hopkins, because I would have preferred that his work had never been discovered. But that brings me back to the beginning--quality is defined by the reader.
That's helpful, Richard; I agree completely. It then becomes interesting to see how long it takes for 'cream' to be defined as such by which self-selected group of readers, and how long it takes to rise...In the meantime, it IS very satisfying to have one's work so labelled, even if only by a handful of 'discerning' readers (i.e. readers with whom one agrees!)
Your point about quality being defined by the reader is very well made RJ, particularly with regard to GMH - I love the way his use of sprung rhythm links me to Old English poetry - so unlike the poetic norm of his day (which is maybe why he never risked public exposure in his lifetime).
I suppose we are all striving for excellence in our different ways, and how many readers eventually applaud those efforts in this digital, self-publishing age remains to be seen in each and every case.
Robin wrote: "That's helpful, Richard; I agree completely. It then becomes interesting to see how long it takes for 'cream' to be defined as such by which self-selected group of readers, and how long it takes t..."I see you're in England (and almost the same age as me). I live in Shropshire but I'll be at Chorleywood Literary Festival on Sunday--will you be there?
No. Perhaps I should think of getting myself to more events at Literary Festivals - starting with the one on my own doorstep in Chester. I am afraid that most of the time all I want to do is stay home and write. Who knows how much time you and I have left? My aim is to go on writing what I think are really good books that could be very useful in classrooms where English is taught: once e-readers have become the norm in schools.
Robin wrote: "No. Perhaps I should think of getting myself to more events at Literary Festivals - starting with the one on my own doorstep in Chester. I am afraid that most of the time all I want to do is stay..."Could be tomorrow--could be thirty years away--but that's the finishing line we can see. I can't say it troubles me--when the end comes, it comes.
Absolutely. It's making the most productive use of whatever time remains that is preoccupying me. Spending 50 hours per week on strategies that result in the sale of 10 books at 99p may not be it, when in that time I could have put together another ten thousand carefully chosen words, telling myself that one day it might be thought that there was some quality in their compilation.
It is as it always has been, Robin. Only a handful of books from each literary generation have stood the test of time while thousands have fallen by the wayside. Today, Amazon publishes around 6,000 new books a day. The competition is tremendous and 'quality' has little to do with sales and/or recognition. Though we hate to admit it, since it's beyond our control, luck has always played a role in an author's success.
Robin wrote: "Jillian Bergsma writing in Independent Publisher recently produced an interesting analysis of where the digital revolution was going http://bit.ly/1pI8GLy. Reading it prompted this blog: because f..."I've added your book to my TBR list :)
Richard wrote: "Who defines quality? This is a very good question. But more to the point, how has quality changed? If you take a look at some of the early Pulitzer prize winners - you will more than blush. Quality..."Thats one way to look at it :)
Im venturing to say that quality is set by the writer, the reader and the market.
I don't believe quality is defined by the reader. That attribute is defined by the literary elite among us and always has been, but that group also defined what would or would not be published and I always wonder what great books never made it out of the mail room. Readers define what sells. The writer must decide where they fall between the two and accept the consequences of their decision. 'Literary' work has never sold well in the modern market. I don't write it because I can't. Does that mean you shouldn't write it? Of course not, but your expectations of sales should be commensurate with its place in the fiction market. I write the modern version of the Penny Dreadful or Dime Novel - heart throb romance - yet even I become frustrated by books written like one hour TV shows, with poor grammar and poorer spelling, that sell better than mine. Should I write erotica because that's the current big seller in the romance market? Of course not.(But don't think I haven't thought about it. This is how I earn my living!)
The question you need to ask yourselves is why do you write? I write because I enjoy it. I wrote for years knowing no one would read it. I like watching my characters come to life. I like working out the puzzles of plot. When a reader says they wish they could live in the setting I create or feel like they know my characters personally, it means more to me than royalties. I still cherish that first review I got from a stranger. They weren't being kind. They really liked my book. Wow!
Have I adjusted my writing to the market? Yes, at least a little. I watch my word count. Romance readers prefer 70-80,000 words and I try to keep under 100K. I've shortened my sentences, though not to the nine words readers prefer. I use fewer commas, because readers find them distracting. I can't, however, compromise how I tell my story. My sales suffer from my inability to do so. I've accepted it. I have found a balance between what I want to write and what enough readers will buy and that makes me one lucky author, but I know I'd still be writing if it was only one sale a month. I write because it gives me great satisfaction and pleasure, and because I have something to say even if it's in mass market form.
Jacqueline wrote: "I don't believe quality is defined by the reader. That attribute is defined by the literary elite among us and always has been, but that group also defined what would or would not be published and ..."I totally concur, Jacqueline. I have the good fortune of not needing to make my living through novel sales, but everything you said rings true of me. I write because my stories are my private universe, bursting to get out. I share them in case someone else wants to spend a few hours in my world. When they do, and they truly enjoy the experience--walking in the shoes of an international jewel thief--great! You're right. A good review from an unbiased reader is like... well... diamonds to me!
Jacqueline, I agree 100% and couldn't have said it better, or add to it. Great discussion guys.
Jacqueline has stated it so well! I do write for my reader, but first of all I write for me...because it's what I love to do. My books don't fit neatly into any one genre and it's difficult to find my "target audience," but when a story starts to build inside me, I let it out. Is it quality writing? That depends upon who's reading it. Quality, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
If you write a book and the critics, pundits and professors all say it is great, and it does not sell then I guess the above are not a big enough target audience. On the other hand if you write erotica and that is what is "in" and it sells thousands of copies, then I say you have found your target audience, even if it is panned by the critics.
Indeed; and John Locke posed this question (my words): "If those were your choices - to write something considered to have "quality" that had minimal sales, or to write something that was not thought to have literary merit but which sold a million copies - which would you choose?" He was clear he would choose the latter, and I am clear that I would choose the former. I'm not saying one choice is better than the other, merely that that is the way I have chosen to write: to strive for quality and hope it sells, rather than striving for sales and hoping for quality... Both, of course, would be great; but if it were an either/or, which would you go for?
If it were an either/or choice, I would opt for quality. After all, everything I write is in some way an extension of myself.
Richard wrote: "Quality is defined in literature as that which moves - causes a catharsis in its readers."Richard, I fully agree on this point.
I'm interested in movies like Wall-E, Up, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Shawshank Redemption, etc.I'm interested in works of art/entertainment that seem to have a universal appeal.
I wonder how that mechanism works (appealing to the whole of humanity).
It's not entirely related to the question of quality, but I think that a so-called great work that only a tiny number of people can appreciate raises some interesting related questions.
Robin wrote: " Who knows how much time you and I have left?..."R.J. wrote: "Could be tomorrow--could be thirty years away--but that's the finishing line we can see. I can't say it troubles me--when the end comes, it comes."
Robin and R.J., today I stumbled upon a Japanese saying:
The age of the man is his spirit; the age of the woman is her face.
I am 77 years old and from my own experience I know that the first part of it is very accurate.
I do not quite agree with the second point, if taken literally.
My wife assures me I am only as old as the woman I feel, and I have found there to be some truth in that. Meanwhile, however, I have distilled from many years of reading and writing a pretty strong sense of what contitutes "quality writing", and I will go on striving to ensure that what I write contains as much of that "quality" as possible.Self-published authors of "quality writing" have to accept the fact that their work will not automatically be discovered and appreciated by droves of readers. For their work to be 'discovered' by enough people to gain momentum in the marketplace it has to be accompanied by "quality" marketing and promotion.
There are many marketing firms out there promising much for a chunk of your change; but in my to-date limited experience, money so spent is largely wasted. What works is the slow, patient build-up of "quality" relationships with other writers and readers, and a constant willingness to help others along the way.
I am always willing to read/review a fellow author's book (in any genre) if after reading the opening I find myself assured I can write a good, honest, constructive review. It is not unusual for that fellow author to show me the same courtesy: and so we each help each other build our review platforms in a manner that should prove helpful to all subsequent possible readers considering whether or not to read our books. In half a dozen cases I have provided authors of really good stories with free professional edits in order to help them achieve a level of quality that I saw was possible in their work. That is certainly a way of making loyal friends who will buy, read and review your books, and recommend them to others!
It may take ten years to build a significant following in this way; but it will be a following with a certain "quality", and it is quality above all that I am interested in.
Good point re building up a readership.I, too, am always willing to provide a review as appropriate.
I'm with you on all those points. Thank you for taking the trouble to make them.
Robin wrote: "No. Perhaps I should think of getting myself to more events at Literary Festivals - starting with the one on my own doorstep in Chester. I am afraid that most of the time all I want to do is stay h..."Hi Robin. I am originally from close to Chester. I had one of my stories published in the the Cheshire Prize for Literature published by the University of Chester. (Does that make it quality lol)
Perhaps you will only know if your work is 'quality' if it eventually becomes a classic.
Like Jillian, I have a degree in English, and I also have a professional lifetime’s experience of teaching it and of running writers’ workshops. My first attempts at writing 40 years ago were published by Penguin; but in those days I was on my way to being head of a high school and far too preoccupied with the challenges of teaching inner city children in a very stressful social services area of London to think seriously about developing excellence in my own writing.
By the time I finally set out to achieve that goal - four years ago at the age of 68 - the digital revolution was in full swing and the publishing world had changed out of all recognition. Our house is still full of beautiful books, and I have always thought of myself as a bibliophile; but once I had my kindle there was no going back.
Printed books don’t make any sense to me anymore on any level: impact on the planet, price, instant availability, the portability of a whole library on my travels, manipulation of print size, daily access to free books in almost all genres (I’m highly selective, but have still downloaded 200+ free books worth reading in the last three months), tremendous highlighting and note-making facilities for review/study purposes… The list goes on.
Jillian says a recent survey showed that the majority of Americans still prefer the feel and smell and tangibility of traditionally published “books”. In the late fifteenth century there were still many people who preferred the feel and smell and solidity of a manuscript that had taken a patient monk a year to produce. The crossover from manuscripts to printed books took most of a century. I predict that in our more literate age the crossover from traditionally printed to e-published books will take perhaps half that time, and I would expect schools to play a leading part in effecting that transition.
What interests me most, however, is how ‘quality’ writing now gets noticed by more than a handful of discerning people in a marketplace barely containing the constant flow of millions of new titles every year. I wonder how many seriously good writers are now submerged under the struggling mass of authors - previously denied that status - who are all now diving into the self-publishing pool: thrashing and splashing on about their own personally prized publications, most of which are destined to sink with hardly a trace
The erstwhile gatekeepers, it seems to me, have now largely turned into parasites feeding on the backs of celebrities and using stardom to promote sales of on occasion ghost-written or professionally “edited” semi-autobiographies, while much better writers are routinely turned away because no one has heard of them. “Quality” scarcely enters into such an equation.
So who defines ‘quality’ anymore? - certainly not traditional publishers or agents, whose only concern (understandably enough) seems to be guaranteed volume of sales (hence their fastening on celebrities); and certainly not the reading public, which merely defines popularity (often a very different thing).
I’m 100% in favour of e-publishing and self-publishing; but it does raise that interesting question. Wonderful writers aren’t necessarily wonderful publicists. Shakespeare, as far as I am aware, made no attempt to publish his own plays. Thank the Lord for Hemynge and Condell: for without them we wouldn’t have had the First Folio, published eight years after his death. Gerard Manley Hopkins’ poems were found among his papers after his death…
Perhaps the most I can hope for is to go on writing to the best of my ability for the time I have left, and to achieve what I consider to be a kind of excellence. I can certainly hope for recognition from a handful of discerning readers and fellow writers (recorded in their reviews), and hope to leave behind something that future generations may one day find interesting and valuable. How many of us are in that boat, I wonder? I’m pretty sure ‘boat’ is the wrong word. It had better be ‘ocean liner’ (to contain the numbers).
Please be clear that this is not a complaint about the status quo! I’m merely trying to understand it, to come to terms with it, and to discover what thoughts you have on the matter.