Reading the 20th Century discussion

To accompany Joseph Conrad's Typhoon in January 2020 the moderators' choice is....


Lusitania: Triumph, Tragedy, and the End of the Edwardian Age by Greg King and Penny Wilson


Welcome to this discussion thread which will open on or around 1 January 2020


Lusitania: Triumph, Tragedy, and the End of the Edwardian Age is an extraordinary tale and Greg King and Penny Wilson really do it justice in this engaging, thoroughly researched and well written account that personalises the tragedy whilst providing sufficient historical information to help the reader to view the tragedy within a broader historical context.

If you prefer, or have already read this book, you can read a Lusitania book of your choice


The blurb...

On the 100th Anniversary of its sinking, King and Wilson tell the story of the Lusitania's glamorous passengers and the torpedo that ended an era and prompted the US entry into World War I.

Lusitania: She was a ship of dreams, carrying millionaires and aristocrats, actresses and impresarios, writers and suffragettes – a microcosm of the last years of the waning Edwardian Era and the coming influences of the Twentieth Century. When she left New York on her final voyage, she sailed from the New World to the Old; yet an encounter with the machinery of the New World, in the form of a primitive German U-Boat, sent her – and her gilded passengers – to their tragic deaths and opened up a new era of indiscriminate warfare.

A hundred years after her sinking, Lusitania remains an evocative ship of mystery. Was she carrying munitions that exploded? Did Winston Churchill engineer a conspiracy that doomed the liner? Lost amid these tangled skeins is the romantic, vibrant, and finally heartrending tale of the passengers who sailed aboard her. Lives, relationships, and marriages ended in the icy waters off the Irish Sea; those who survived were left haunted and plagued with guilt. Now, authors Greg King and Penny Wilson resurrect this lost, glittering world to show the golden age of travel and illuminate the most prominent of Lusitania's passengers. Rarely was an era so glamorous; rarely was a ship so magnificent; and rarely was the human element of tragedy so quickly lost to diplomatic maneuvers and militaristic threats.

Our January 2020 nautically themed discussions are now officially open


Here's to another wonderful discussion

The sinking of the Lusitania is an extraordinary tale and Greg King and Penny Wilson really do it justice in this engaging, thoroughly researched and well written account that personalises the tragedy whilst providing sufficient historical information to help the reader to view the tragedy within a broader historical context.

Who has read, or plans to read, Lusitania: Triumph, Tragedy, and the End of the Edwardian Age?

I received this for Christmas and will be starting in the next few days - it looks wonderful.

That's good news Judy


I eagerly await your reaction

I recall when I read it with others who had read different books there was a great deal of discussion about the culpability of Captain Turner. This book suggested he was in part responsible however I recall other accounts deciding he was wrongly blamed for the disaster - and was a convenient scapegoat

I am about a third way through a re-read of this. It is interesting to learn of all the passengers - the authors concentrate on first, and second, class, as they stated that there was more information on them. That did draw some criticism, as I recall, but I am enjoying it. I won't post more, for fear of spoilers, until anyone joining in has read on.

Of course, members can read any book on Lusitania, it doesn't have to be this title. I have Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania on Audible, which was the other big title and which came out at virtually the same time, for the centenary.

Thanks Susan.


I found it interesting to read about the lives of the rich and privileged passengers who were aboard the vessel when she sank in May 1915.

There were a lot of them, and authors Greg King and Penny Wilson provide details of their background, their lives and their intrigues, along with descriptions of the Lusitania's luxurious interiors. I am interested in this era and so found much to enjoy in this information.

The knowledge of what is to befall all these people adds poignancy and an added grim fascination.

I am also enjoying reading about the characters, and the unease, aboard. Obviously, this differs from books about Titanic, say, as this takes part during wartime. Yet, still, there is that sense of Edwardian luxury and class division.

The drama of the actual sinking is truly gripping and it really helped me to imagine the experience and terror of being torpedoed and then sunk, on a vessel that was ill prepared for such an eventuality

I've started this now, after finally finishing October, but am not very far in as yet. It looks as if it will be really interesting.

As Judy has just started, perhaps we can begin with the start. What did everyone think of the warnings, issued by the Germans, before the ship even sailed?

Good question Susan. As I recall, people thought the Lusitania was too big and quick for any German submarine to attack plus the belief was that, despite the German warning, no submarine commander would attack the ship because it was a passenger liner. The rules of naval warfare forbade that kind of attack.

True, but there were warnings in the newspapers, and at the dock. Many passengers saw them and did think twice about boarding. I will just post the text below, to make it easier:

NOTICE!
TRAVELLERS intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies; that the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles; that, in accordance with formal notice given by the Imperial German Government, vessels flying the flag of Great Britain, or any of her allies, are liable to destruction in those waters and that travellers sailing in the war zone on the ships of Great Britain or her allies do so at their own risk.
IMPERIAL GERMAN EMBASSY
Washington, D.C., 22 April 1915.

By the way, your comment about the speed of the ship becomes much more interesting later in the book and will, I suspect, lead to lots of discussion.

I've just read the bit about the warning and remember there was a lot of discussion of it in the previous book about the Lusitania which we read over on BYTs - the title escapes me.

I suspect a lot of people reacted like Mrs Pearl, when she told the anxious young nanny: "Take no notice, dear, it's just propaganda."

There was also a belief that the ship would go too fast to be hit and that she would get an escort when she neared the danger zone. I don't think I would have set foot on board, though, after I had read that.

Lusitania had painted over her stacks, so they were less visible, and was - possibly - carrying armaments from the US to UK, which would, of course, have made it a viable target. Nigeyb is right in saying that submarines were meant to have the right to come on board and search a neutral ship, for contraband, but the reality was that a ship might ram a submarine, and they did so, or shot at them, so submarines tended not to follow the rules.

I'm really enjoying the description of the ship and the luxurious lifestyle of the wealthier passengers. I was surprised to see that people sometimes shared a cabin or "state room" with a stranger - after going on a cruise last year, I can't imagine sharing a cabin with someone who wasn't a family member or close friend!

I would also like to read a book about the history of cruises in general, or reminiscences by passengers and crews, but I have drawn a complete blank so far when looking for such a book.

Yes, that was strange, although I suppose it happened on trains too, as people shared rooms when travelling overnight. I recall Poirot sharing train berths with people he didn't know in books, for example.

I have seen the kind of modern book about people working on cruise ships, etc. Judy, but not a history of cruises in general. If I can find something, I will let you know.

Thank you, Susan, that would be great. I hadn't realised people shared with strangers on trains as well.

Although I'm enjoying the book, I have noticed the descriptions of one or two of the passengers having a slightly snide edge - for instance, the description of a woman who married her rich, widowed brother-in-law, who is said by the authors to have owed her good fortune to her sister's death. I hardly imagine she would have seen it in those terms!

I had a browse on Amazon and you are now responsible for my impulse buying a Titanic mug, Judy :) There are some modern memoirs, especially if you search for Cunard, such as High Tea on the Cunard Queens: A Light-Hearted Look at Life at Sea. Also, I searched the White Star Line - The Ismay Line - and there are some lovely hardback books about cruise ships, but not a real overview, that I can find anyway. The Ocean Railway looks interesting though. Definitely added to my TBR list.

I agree that the book has a really gossipy streak, although I didn't mind that. The end, where they say what happened to a lot of the people mentioned, also has some funny stories and coincidences.

Ooh, thank you, Susan, High Tea on the Cunard Queens and The Ocean Railway both look really good.

P.S. I hope you enjoy the Titanic mug - there seem to be lots of designs!

You're welcome :)

I had no idea Titanic mugs existed. A great find - I am easily pleased!

There's an obvious joke about drinks going down well with a Titanic mug, but that would be in dubious taste so I, for one, will not be making it

Enjoy your new mug Susan

I got my son a coffee machine for Christmas and my tea mug is too big, so that will be my hot chocolate mug, Nigeyb. Perfect for the cold weather and reminiscent of a line in one of my favourite Titanic books The Watch That Ends the Night (from my review) As the great ship heads for the sea, Harold Lowe, Junior officer, asserts that, "the most pressing disaster on a ship like Titanic is a cup of cocoa spilled on a gentle lady's fur coat."

Going back to Lusitania, it is interesting that the ship did not have a 'proper' crew, as many of the usual men who would be on the ship had, obviously, joined the war effort. I think this had a huge impact when the ship was hit.

If anyone has the chance to go to the Merseyside Maritime Museum, they have an excellent Lusitania exhibition, including a propeller from the ship:

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...

I saw the museum when I visited Liverpool, but don't remember the propellor sadly.

I was intrigued to see that one of the passengers, Albert Bilicke, had lived in Tombstone and was a witness to the Gunfight at the OK Corral - the theme of many a classic Western!

Yes, there were some fab passenger stories, weren't there?

Yes, an amazing mix of people. It's a pity it is so concentrated on the wealthier passengers, but the authors explain they had to do this because they were so much better documented.

I am reading Dead Wake: The Last Crossing of the Lusitania
Obviously I knew what had happened to the Lusitania, but did not know anything about the run-up to the disaster. This book tells of the building of the ship, the rise of the captain's career, Wilson Woodrow's loss of his wife, and the beginnings of the submarine. All very enlightening.

Good to hear, Jill. I have Dead Wake on Audible and intend to listen to it, hopefully not too far in the future.

Glad that Dead Wake is good. I previously read The Lusitania Story when we were on BYT, which I thought was a good introduction.

I also remember starting Wilful Murder: The Sinking of the Lusitania, but looks as if I must have given up on that one (before I found out how to create a 'did not finish' shelf!) I vaguely remember finding there was a lot of technical detail which I struggled to follow.

Around 120 pages in, must admit I'm starting to glaze over slightly at all the descriptions of the incredible wealth and opulence of passengers in the first class, and their lives before the journey - starting to feel as if this is a bit too much of a good thing.

I'm looking forward to getting on to the second class passengers, and finding out a bit more about the actual voyage.

The beginning is a little like a list of never ending passengers, I agree. I hope you enjoy it more as you read on, Judy.

Thank you, Susan - I'm now up to the part about the attack on the ship, which is compelling and shocking to read. It seems as if an awful lot of mistakes were made, some, such as ignoring the instructions given, similar to those in our other choice this month, Typhoon.

I think the Captain thought that lifting the lifeboats would make things easier, but that worked against them, didn't it?

It was interesting to read that many passengers spent the night on deck, worried to sleep in their cabin - only to be caught out the next day, when they thought danger was over.

Susan wrote: "I think the Captain thought that lifting the lifeboats would make things easier, but that worked against them, didn't it?.."

Certainly did - it sounds as if that was a disastrous decision, as was the lack of safety drills.

Yes, the Captain certainly made some poor decisions - was it just arrogance you think, or did the UK want something to happen to a passenger liner to help bring the US into the war?

I certainly don't think the UK wanted the Lusitania to be blown up - as the authors point out, apart from the terrible loss of life, this idea is contradicted by the fact that there were lots of much-needed munitions on board. I remember there was a lot about this in the other book on the Lusitania which we read over on BYTs, The Lusitania Story.

I found this article about the munitions:
https://centenarynews.com/article?id=...

It does sound from that letter of Churchill's as if he wouldn't have minded too much if a neutral ship was attacked at some stage, but this wasn't a neutral ship, and the authors say he wouldn't have wanted the US to enter the war at this stage, as the UK needed their munitions.

Personally, I think it's more likely the captain and crew were frantically busy concentrating on all the usual demands of a cruise, keeping the customers satisfied etc, and just failed to take the threat of an attack seriously enough. Maybe they had got used to travelling in wartime and started to take being in danger for granted?

I do find it astonishing though that nobody had checked the lifeboats etc were in good condition before leaving, or arranged safety drills, and it's amazing that no military vessel was sent to escort the Lusitania in. What do you think about it all, Susan?

Also that the crew were not of the usual standard, were they? The usual crew were at war and, so, presumably, these were people unused to the way the shipping line run. That was shown in the way many panicked and didn't help passengers.

Also, presumably, military vessels had other things to do than escort passenger ships - although, I suppose, it depends upon how many there were? If they helped the big, glamorous ships, like Lusitania, but not smaller ships, that might have been criticised. Indeed, we learn that another ship had been sunk just the day before, in virtually the same place and that had no escort.

Susan wrote: "Also that the crew were not of the usual standard, were they? The usual crew were at war and, so, presumably, these were people unused to the way the shipping line run. ..."

I get that impression too, which makes it all the odder that there wasn't more safety training.

On whether military vessels were available to provide an escort, it is mentioned that there were some crews on standby when the Lusitania survivors finally reached Ireland.

You'd think the sinking of the previous ship would have meant an escort for this one, but it seems from the book as if there was possibly some kind of breakdown of communication, with the captain feeling he should not have to ask for an escort, and the authorities not providing one without a request. I think it's also mentioned that some ship captains were nervous about using radio much because of alerting enemies to their positions.

Certainly, the danger seemed much more real than I initially thought, when I first read this. I thought it was a shock that a passenger ship had been attacked, but it seems that others had been attacked and very recently. I suspect it was the passenger list that got the attention and the sheer size of the ship.