Reading the Chunksters discussion

Kristina and Kaycie, this is the thread we were talking about. I hope other members will also join in the discussion. Feel free to post and participate in the discussion in any way you find appropriate. Good luck!

Mason & Dixon Tentative Reading Schedule

Kristina and I are planning on starting this read immediately, so we will have completed week 1s read by next Monday, Nov 24th to start discussing this read. This is also a fluid schedule...we plan on keeping in touch about how the reading is going and adjusting accordingly. Both of us are pretty excited to tackle this challenging novel!

Week 1: Chapters 1 - 6
Week 2: Chapters 7 - 11
Week 3: Chapters 12 - 16
Week 4: Chapters 17 - 22
Week 5: Chapters 23 - 28
Week 6: Chapters 29 - 33
Week 7: Chapters 34 - 39
Week 8: Chapters 40 - 46
Week 9: Chapters 47 - 52
Week 10: Chapters 53 - 57
Week 11: Chapters 58 - 64
Week 12: Chapters 65 - 70
Week 13: Chapters 71 - 74
Week 14: Chapters 75 - end

I have also found this wiki page to help keep track of characters as well as obscure references throughout the text:
http://www.masondixon.pynchonwiki.com...

Kristina - let me know if you have any comments or changes for the schedule. Otherwise, I'll probably be posting as I write, and will include the chapter title I am referring to at the top of my post.

Enjoy and good luck, everyone!

Great schedule Kaycie!! Thank you for doing the schedule and the character tracker. That is really going to help me. So, I am going to get off here and start reading!!

Hey Kristina! I'll start us off slowly for the week since I forgot my notes.

Have you read any Pynchon before, or is this your first? I read his shorter book, "The Crying of Lot 49", so I knew a bit of what to expect.

So far, my favorite part of this book has been the first two pages. The opening descriptions of Philly in the winter are just amazing. I had to read this once to sort of figure out what he was saying, read it a second time and let it flow, then read it probably 5 more times because it was just beautiful. I especially lived his use of the phrase "nerve lines of concentrated light" to describe the ice covered trees.

The next major point I wanted to bring up is the inherent unreliability in communication that Pynchon is discussing. He first brings this up in the Revd's telling of M&D's story. Right from the beginning, he wants o tell the story of how M&D met, but tells you he wasn't there. I forget the quote, but will add it later. There is also the chapter with the letters between the two, where they make explicit note of the fact that neither of them are truthful in their letters.

So, from this, I think we are going to left wondering throughout this book how much of what were read is actually meant to be real versus what is a by-product of the storytelling process.

And speaking of, I loved the Learnèd English Dog., and my favorite pun in any book Ive ever read is the part where "The L.E.D. blinked....", using only instance of the abbreviation for the dog. Very funny!

The story itself hasn't been as interesting to me as the set-up few chapters, but it is still a fun ride so far. What we're your initial impressions?

This is my first Pynchon. It took me a minute to get into the rhythm of this book. The first sentence grabs you, " Snowballs have flown their arcs" What a cool way to start a book.

(view spoiler)[Rev Cherrycoke reminds me of a fisherman. He saw them, he was there but the story is in the eye of the beholder. Even the children he is talking to questions him.

I especially was getting a kick out of cape town during the venus moon. I did think if I read one more Bodice ripping while mason runs away I am throwing this book.

I think that the hidden jokes are clever and I especially love the people that are listening to the rev'd story. They have some pretty good commentary. (hide spoiler)]

The book is rather wordy and at times it drags. I am hoping that IN AMERICA will pick up the pace a little bit.

Kaycie, What chapter are you on? I think I may have misunderstood. Did you read week one or did you read up to In America? I just want to make sure we are writing about the same thing. My bad if I read to far. I will hold up until we are on the same page.

Kristina, I read week 1 and part of week 2 so far. I don't have my book in front of me, but how far is "in America"? I thought it was pretty far, like 1/3 of the book, but I could definitely catch up, so don't worry about that. Just let me know what pace you were reading at, and I can read with you.

I will wait until you get there. I paced myself about 50 pages through out the week and then about 50 on the weekend. I am on page 253. Just let me know when your there. That would be mid week 6 on the schedule.

Oh perfect, haha, I wanted to read faster and forced myself to slow down. Give me a few days to catch up since I'm now midway through another and I can read at that place with you.

awesome.

Hey Kristina, so I am finding that I want to read this book slowly and go back and reread passages and really let it sink in. Because of that, I am getting only about 20ish pages per day. I am going to keep posting thoughts as they come up, though.

Here are thoughts up to chapter 13.

(view spoiler)[
Back to the untrustworthyness of memory and storytellers in general....pg 8 says "an untrustworthy Remembrancer for whom the few events yet rattling within a broken memory must provide the only comfort now remaining to him" talks outright of this. This starts to come up several times now by chapter 13ish, especially in Revd penchant for relating detailed accounts of events he was not even present for, as in Mason & Dixon meeting, as well as Mason's time on the island with Maskelyne. Even his relatives that he is telling the story to are commenting on this at this point, and he isn't providing an answer. This leads me to wonder if unusual elements like the Learned English Dog are meant to be just dramatic embellishments by a man who knows that if he stops entertaining his relatives, he might be out of the house.

There is also a lot of talk about clocks. On page 60: "the clock having misinform'd him of the hour...", as well as the conversations between the two clocks beginning on page 121. There is also a mention (I didn't write it down) during the transit of venus of Mason & Dixon being just a bit out of sync in the times they are writing down, due to Dixon's over-excitement and Mason's over-caution. To me, much of this is indicating that time is both fluid and in the mind of the beholder. M&D are obviously looking at the same things, but they are writing down different times. The clock also seems to have a mind of its own when it misinforms Mason of the hour. Any thoughts on this? There are just many mentions of clocks and time so far.

In terms of other topics that seem to be arising multiple times, now we have seen slavery in Cape Town, Aunt Euphrenia has talked of being captured and sold into slavery in Turkey, and I am sure there will be much talk of the slavery in America. I especially think this will become an important topic, as the book is titled "Mason & Dixon", and the dividing line between the free and slave states can be considered to be the Mason and Dixon line.

Anyways, I am really enjoying this read. There are slower parts, but they are usually parts I am finding I didn't pay as close attention to (hence my going back and rereading so many sections). I am really over-the-moon with Pynchon's mastery of the English language. As an example, I especially love the sentence on page 60 about the daughters of the Vrooms. He says that the Vroom household consisted of Vroom, his wife, "and what seems like seven, and is probably closer to three, blond, nubile Daughters.". I LOVE this sentence. In one short, very simple sentence, Pynchon has introduced the family as well as completely conveyed the chaos that Mason must feel living in that house, and I can absolutely picture everything from the family, to their lifestyles and behaviors to the entire fiasco that is to follow from this one sentence.
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I will continue to keep you updated on my progress! Also, feel free to read ahead and post in spoiler tags if you prefer to keep reading. Happy reading!

I totally agree with everything in the spoiler. (view spoiler)[I see the underlining representation of slavery and definitely see more examples to come. I also find myself reading and then thinking, is this information even reliable? Is this just information that the Reverend is just telling. Almost like a fable where some of the information is true, but we will elaborate on things I could see the two of them doing? What do you think of the clocks represent in chapter 12. I have reread that chapter just because I think there is a purpose to knowing about the clocks not working well with the tide? I went back and reread the sentence on page 60. It is pretty slick. I find his writing, smart. He does not have to use 12 different adjectives in a sentence to convey what he wants the reader to see. I do find the commentary between characters to be a little slow at times. (hide spoiler)]

Hi Kristina!

I haven't forgotten you, just running a bit behind! :-)

(view spoiler)[Kristina wrote: "I also find myself reading and then thinking, is this information even reliable?"
I agree completely! I am starting to wonder how true this is to the story of M&D, though I do think THAT is part of Pynchon's point. Information is inherently unreliable.

As per the clocks, I don't know quite what they might represent. Though with your point on the tides, maybe it is just to sort of point out the differences between clock time and natural rhythms. It could also be to point out that time, even though we think it is exact, is also an inexact science when you consider errors, etc. Time can be relied upon almost as much as this narration!

I also agree that his writing is slick and smart.

THOUGH I think I got to the parts you were talking about...I was really into the story and not finding anything very slow until chapters 14 through the end of the section. Those did seem to drag, and I found myself getting much less out of them! I am hoping that "In America" goes faster, like you said, especially because M&D will be together again. The narration seemed to fall off when they were separated. (hide spoiler)]

Anyways, I have more notes (just a few) on the later chapters that I will post later, then start on reading "In America." How fast do you plan on reading over the holidays?

I took the whole week of Christmas off. So.... My goal is 25 pages a day.

(view spoiler)[I love the thought you stated on time being as unreliable as the narration. That is so true. Also, I agree that it is slow because M&D are not together. (hide spoiler)]

Ok, great. I am celebrating Christmas with my family a week early (so all of next week), and I'm usually pretty exhausted. I am going to try to keep up with the 25ish pages/day next week, but if I'm super tired, I might find myself reaching for a less mentally taxing book. I'll catch up over Christmas week, though.

I'll post thoughts as I finish larger chunks and as I have time!

That is fine. my daughter's 9th birthday is on the 15 th so this weekend I am having kids over for a fun birthday weekend. The 25ish pages is a goal only lol.

Hi again! I'm not really progressing at my desired speed through the book with holiday prep, but now that the holidays are here, I am hoping to read a bit faster. I am up to ~page 450, so here are my notes up until then.

(view spoiler)[
This section opened with, once again, a brilliant description by Pynchon. I'm beginning to see from this that I am way more into his descriptions of things than the actual storylines. His dialogues between characters can get sort of out-there and really drag for me compared to his descriptions.

This section also many references to the unreliablity of time...just a few (pg 333) "allowing for how fast or slow the Clock's going", (pg 379) "time, however, had acquir'd additional Properties", (pg 382) "to get the Time to pass differently", etc. I do love Pynchon's way of looking at time, though, and some of these seemingly weird descriptions of something we consider to be a constant, fixed thing are so fitting and beautiful. Pynchon himself is playing with the concept of time in his narration in that some small, trivial events are taking several chapters to describe, whereas one single chapter encompasses an entire winter.

This section also discusses quite openly the difference between "history" and "fact" in chapter 35. This one a favorite chapter of mine, as I just love this discussion in general. This chapter makes me not only question what is real or not real in this story, but does make me consider what real and not real in pretty much every account of history I have ever heard. I UNDERSTAND that history is subjective, but Pynchon does such a good job of showing you how that is. What a cool way to make a point.

I also liked the parts in chapter 34 about how other can justify doing "evil", making "evil" also a subjective term.

We finally got to see the famed mechanical duck that was advertised in the book's description! I don't really know what to make of the duck, but the story was entertaining, and I hope that we get to see a bit more of it later!

The duck also brought up an interesting subject in sexual awakenings. They pose the question "Had the shock of acquiring an erotik self driven the Creature insane?" (pg 377). This is also hinted at in chapter 23 with the comparison of a boy undergoing puberty with him turning into a warewolf! Pynchon seems to be equating sex with craziness, and hes probably not wrong.

I feel like so much of this book is going over my head. How are you doing with the reading? I just think that Pynchon has created so many secrets and hidden messages in this that I am missing just reading over it for the story itself. I can see why his books are considered so difficult, and why people can reread these so many times and still find something interesting to glean from the text!
(hide spoiler)]

I know that was pretty scattered, but I've been meaning to write again for awhile and haven't had a chance. Hope your reading is going well, and have a wonderful holiday!

(view spoiler)[This section also discusses quite openly the difference between "history" and "fact" in chapter 35. This one a favorite chapter of mine, as I just love this discussion in general. This chapter makes me not only question what is real or not real in this story, but does make me consider what real and not real in pretty much every account of history I have ever heard. I UNDERSTAND that history is subjective, but Pynchon does such a good job of showing you how that is. What a cool way to make a point.

My favorite section as well!! I am on page 465. I feel like a lot of the storyline is over my head. It is actually making me feel stupid. I keep thinking, "am I missing something here?" I was really excited about the clock discussion since I was curious of this in the earlier section before Into America. If it was not for his awesome descriptive writing, I probably would have gave up on it. The dialogue can draw out a little too much for my taste. I do think it is funny that they have trouble finding love but them two boys act like a married couple needing space frequently. (hide spoiler)]

I am having a terrible time finding time to read d/t the holidays. I was hoping to have this book done before the new year. I doubt that will be possible. I hope you are having a wonderful holiday season.

I wanted to write my thoughts before I forget what I have read. I finished the book. I am still trying to figure out how to rate it. The writing is amazing. However, I do not think I will be reading another Pynchon anytime soon. Pynchon books are something to ponder and relish, reading in small doses. I think with having a full time job, two kids, two puppies, and a house to run (I am sure you understand) It is really hard to spend quality time on a book you need to savor. I will give some overall impressions and wait for your throughts. I hope you enjoy it. Maybe we should do another buddy read in the future!!

(view spoiler)[ If Mason and Dixon are not in a tavern or some type of religious services, they are doing their own thing. Dixon remains being the jokester while Mason being the straight laced one of the two. I enjoyed when they were poking fun of the wild animals or Indians that they were hearing. They definitely have some adventures, through the cherrycoke story teller. Sometimes the story is in first person and other times in third. I also found the information regarding the Biblical Thomas gospel story being discussed. I wonder if this was another way of Pynchon stating to doubt the story being told. I love chapter 59-61 regarding the story of Tom and Catherine. Pretty interesting. I can not wait for your thoughts on Zepho and Rhodie Beck!! I am also curious on your thoughts on the 11 lost days. (hide spoiler)]

Have a wonderful 2015!! Happy new year!!

O wow! I can't believe you were able to finish so fast! I understand about not having time to relish this type of novel. That's why I am progressing o slowly! I found that I really can't read more than 25ish pages in a sitting, so I am just plodding along.

I also love Pynchon's writing, and am having a slightly different reaction from you - I now want to read everything he ever wrote! I will probably have some down-time between books, because this is tougher to read and digest, but I want to read another of his big ones, probably "gravity's rainbow" this year. I do think it has helped that this wasn't his first book I read (i started with Lot 49), so I knew a bit of what to expect and a bit about his style. This long tome would have been overwhelming if I didn't.

(view spoiler)[
From your last post, yes much of this is making me feel stupid. I keep thinking that I should be making a connection that I am not. Thats ok...I can see myself rereading Pynchon for the rest of my life, so it will leave more for me to find with each reread! :-)

I also agree about the dialogue. I love the side-stories and the descriptions, but sometimes the dialogue is just a bit much. I think most of my problem with this book, actually, is that I love everything about it but the main storyline. The saga of Mason & Dixon...the buddy-buddy story just isn't working for me. Thats why I am so anxious to read another Pynchon novel...I think a different storyline would suit me better.

Interesting that you bring up 1st versus 3rd person...I noticed it most with the story of Eliza, and had to reread parts of that a few times. That is a real side-story, but it is somehow integrated back into the story! How did that happen? Basically, The Revd goes to bed and Thelmer and Brae read a different story about her...then all of a sudden she is in the Rev'd's tale, but he is telling it in the 3rd person now! Woah! Talk about trying to confuse us with history versus storytelling versus reality! It becomes just as confusing in Pynchon's book as I'm sure it must be in real-life when historians are trying to piece things together, but what a cool way to demonstrate that. Especially because it takes you off guard at first...you just slip right back into the tale like nothing happened!

I also enjoyed the side story of Tom and Catherine, as well as the one of the crusades and the worm. I must not be at zepho and beck, though, so I will check back in later!

About the 11 missing days, also very interesting topic. I like the mention that people felt cheated because they confused dates, which are names, with days, which are real things. I wish I had more to add on the discussion of these missing days, but as of now, I can only think that it is a continuation of the discussion on natural rhythms versus imposed times on people. They feel cheated that their natural rhythm must change due to an imposed calendar?

This section is also starting to bring up some discussion on the imposed line on the natural order of things between PA and MD. Zhang talks about the fung shui (or lack thereof) of the line. Pg 585 asks why the line has to be so straight and why can't there be a few angles to accommodate a close friend. This is also seen earlier when the married man and women claim they are not married when he stays on one side of the house in PA and she stays on the other side in MD. Now that Pynchon points it out, boundaries are a really funny thing that I have never thought about before. Wars are fought over imaginary lines in the sand, but I've never before stopped to contemplate that those lines are nothing but arbitrary. Seems a silly thing, now.
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I'll keep updating as I keep reading...I'm at ~pg 600, so still have maybe 2 weeks at my current pace. I'd love to do another buddy read sometime - just say the word! I hope that 2015 is a wonderful year for you!

I own Against the Day andInherent Vice. Have you heard anything about these books? Maybe it was the content not necessarily the author. I think you are right about that.

Ive actually heard amazing things about Against the Day, and Ive heard it recommended as a long book that could be used to start reading Pynchon. I haven't heard a ton about Inherent Vice. It does have a movie coming ou, so I was interested in reading it, but I really want a book of Pynchons to love and I think Id feel the same about that one as M&D (based on book description). If you liked his writing like I did, Id try one, and based on what I've read on the order in which to read Pynxhon, Id recommend ATD. Good luck!

Finally done! The book seems to fizzle for me...somewhere I stopped being as interested in the story and as impressed by Pynchon's writing. The last nostalgic chapter or two picked it back up again a bit, but I hoping it was just the story that fell flat for me.

(view spoiler)[A WARE-BEAVER?!?!?! What??? hahahahahahaha. I have no idea how some of these side-stories really fit into the overall tale, but man was it funny reading about a ware-beaver!

I also noticed that they started selling the Ghastly Fop stories later on, and was wondering if that is how the story of Eliza roundabout fits in... Someone used her tale to write a ghastly fop story that Thelmer and Brae later read, and the reverend also included it in his tale? Either way, super fun way to make a point about histories and stories!
(hide spoiler)]

I actually don't really have more than that. Overall, I loved Pynchon's writing (until the end, and I don't know why I stopped enjoying it as much, unless it does pertain to the actual story), but I think the story caused it to fall flat for me. I know I don't always love these types of stories (ie. huck finn, etc.), and I think that was very evident here. I loved all of the side-tales, so I am hoping that a different Pynchon novel will fix this problem for me.

If you wanted a buddy for a different read, let me know! I'm a bit too busy for probably the next few months to start a new Pynchon, I think, but would love to try another one this year!

Thanks for the fun discussions!

Right now I am trying to read some of the books for the Morning Rooster tournament of books. It is this book tournament that is held the first full week of March. It is kind of the same idea as the basketball tournament. They nominated 16 books. I have been following it for a few years now. It really shows how big of a book nerd I am. LOL.

I had never heard of that before so I had to look it up. A bracket for books - hilarious! Enjoy!

Kristina wrote: "Right now I am trying to read some of the books for the Morning Rooster tournament of books."

Sorry to butt in on your buddy read thread, but that tournament of books looks fun! And of course, I love what the winner gets. :)

I know it is awesome!!!