Victorians! discussion

We’re nearing the end now, just one more segment to go, but many of our characters, instead of being relieved of their troubles are falling deeper into them. Lydgate’s money troubles have only deepened the rift already in his and Rosamond’s marriage. And their lack of communication, and Rosamond’s obstinacy on some aspects has only furthered the problem. She has married Tertius or the image she had of him essentially to better her social position, to have the great family connections (and impliedly though not directly the wealth or at least comfortable life that this would bring with it), but it seems that they are in debt and instead of going up in life, they are to go down and that too right before the eyes of Middlemarch. So she tries her best to resolve their problems by doing precisely what she is ‘told’ not to, without considering either the consequences or the real import of her actions. The letter from Sir Godwin ought to have taught her to do this, but it doesn’t seem to have. Lydgate may be to blame for both not taking her in his confidence right from the start as well as for expected her to merely ‘obey’ without having thoughts or a mind of her own, but her actions aren’t as such justified either, are they? What did you think?

Meanwhile Lydgate’s money troubles are sending him down paths that he would never have taken from applying (or very nearly applying) to Sir Godwin to playing for money, to ultimately applying to Bulstrode to whom he would never want to be beholden but desperate times call for desperate measures and Lydgate does all of it, only to be disappointed and left to his fate, except that Bulstrode’s own secret and wrong in allowing that little accident to happen has led to not only him advancing the loan that Lydgate so desperately needs but also to Lydgate being made the subject of false accusations, perhaps hinting at murder? [Once again, like in the matter of Mr Tyke’s appointment in the initial segments, we see how principles and ‘morality’ perhaps take a ‘backseat’ so to speak when trouble descends—in the case of Lydgate as well as Bulstrode.] Luckily Dorothea (who was away for much of this segment) is back and determined to clear his name, for Lydgate really has support from no other quarter, except perhaps Mr Farebrother who knows now that he has the former to be thankful for, for his new-found good fortune.

Lydgate little trip to the pool table also may have had some impact in dissuading Fred from taking to betting once again, which he might have easily fallen back into though he did not intend to do so. We did see something of the consequences of his rashness with the matter of the horse earlier. But between Lydgate and Mr Farebrother who is doing all he can to keep Fred on the right track (which is very admirable, with his own feelings in the matter), I think he will come out of it all well.

Bulstrode too, despite his new attempts at sending away Raffles, and preparing to leave Middlemarch for good finds himself in fresh trouble with Raffles returning there—having been robbed and taken ill. As a consequence, Caleb Garth has discovered his secret, and while being the person he is, he reveals nothing, he has refused to act as his agent any more. Lydgate treats Raffles as he should with the right instructions, but Bulstrode, does end up doing away with him by first not passing on all Lydgate’s instructions regarding the opium doses, and later, more deliberately not speaking up when Mrs Abel suggests giving him brandy which Lydgate has expressly forbidden. Expectedly Raffles dies, and Bulstrode thinks perhaps that his problems are solved, but before long rumours have spread all over Middlemarch with his and Will Ladislaw’s secret being revealed. This with the mysterious circumstances of Raffles’ death seem to indicate that both Bulstrode and Lydgate will be accused of more serious crimes. It remains to be seen if Bulstrode pays for his wrongs, and if Lydgate is cleared of these accusations.

How will things end for Lydgate? Will he and Rosamond come to some understanding or if their rift is one never to be mended? Does Dorothea manage to clear his name? And does any happiness lie ahead for Dorothea with Will? Do things end happily for Fred and Mary? One more instalment to go.

How did you like this segment?

Thank you, Lady Clementia, for carrying us through this. I think the stories are proceeding very slowly. Once again, when reading a large, Victorian novel, I find myself impatient and hoping for some more action. But I also feel that I am in the middle of the equivalent to a modern TV-drama with a lot of episodes. We cut back and forth between the different sub-stories and the drama drags on for extended entertainment.

I enjoy every time our characters visit each other and write letters. It is so interesting to compare with the communication in our society. What would the characters in Middlemarch have done if they had cell phones and how would our lives be if we had to visit each other in that way. Isn’t it fun to imagine?

Did I miss something? Do we know what Bulstrode’s scandal from his past is? Can you guess? (It is not a spoiler - guessing.) I can’t even guess. I am getting very impatient.

When he grants Lydgate a loan after all, I think their reactions are unrealistic. Lydgate doesn’t seem excited and relieved enough. And none of them think it strange or important to explain why Bulstrode refuses one day and agrees to the loan the other day.

The problem with Lydgate and Rosamond’s choices and lifestyle are universal and interesting to read about. I am sure George Eliot knew someone in specific that she based this story on.

Charlotte wrote: "Thank you, Lady Clementia, for carrying us through this. I think the stories are proceeding very slowly. Once again, when reading a large, Victorian novel, I find myself impatient and hoping for so..."

Glad it helps--yes, Bulstrode scandal was revealed-he was married to Will's gramdmother (her second marriage) who had asked him to locate her runaway daughter (Will's mother) before she married him so that she could give her her share of the property. He did manage to trace her but did not reveal the fact so that he'd have control of it all. Also I think the businesses they were in were not all above board, so the money is also tainted, which is why Will wants none of it when Bulstrode tries to make reparations

Thank you, Lady Clementina. I had forgotten about this story, perhaps it seemed so complicated that it did not stick to my memory.

Also his crime does not seem so violent - in comparison to the dramatic way he deals with it. Can’t it be considered a passive act - was everything entirely his responsibility?

Lydgate seems to sink further and further down while Fred rises further and further up, both because of the same family. If it wasn’t for Rosamond, Lydgate would be fine by now.

Chapter LXV, a dispute between husband and wife, between Rosamond and Lydgate, is really well turned. GE is really in control of the psychology of its characters. And the last sentence of the chapter is so revealing of the intertwining of man and woman shaped by their society and their century.
"He wished to excuse everything in her if he could—but it was inevitable that in that excusing mood he should think of her as if she were an animal of another and feebler species. Nevertheless she had mastered him."
A very small last sentence that says so much. I love it!

Charlotte wrote: "Lydgate seems to sink further and further down while Fred rises further and further up."

Yes, I agree, Charlotte.

Charlotte wrote: "If it wasn’t for Rosamond, Lydgate would be fine by now."

And... no, I don't totally agree. Rosamond is what she is. She hasn't changed, she was Middlemarch's little princess and she never said she wanted to be anything else. I agree, she do things (the letter and others...) behind her husband's back, it didn't help, on the contrary.
But Rosamonde cannot be blamed for the fact that Lydgate is in a difficult financial situation. He blinded himself by thinking that he could buy fine china and rich furniture and could easily pay them back. Rosamonde has nothing to do with this: it's not her role and Lydgate knew that before he married her. Moreover, he thought it would have been nice to have a nice and pretty wife who would receive charming guests in silk and frills. He never thought, before he married her: Oh, I'm going to take a woman who's going to sacrifice her social position for my pleasure.

Lady Clementina wrote: "We’re nearing the end now, just one more segment to go, but many of our characters, instead of being relieved of their troubles are falling deeper into them. Lydgate’s money troubles have only deep..."

Thank you for your weekly summaries, LadyC.
I haven't finished this segment yet, but it's up to the others, of course!

Gabrielle wrote:

Charlotte wrote: "If it wasn’t for Rosamond, Lydgate would be f..."

Yeah, that’s true. :)

I was just thinking about the one incident, at the moment - if only they had sold the house to the other couple, then Lydgate could get out of the situation.

Charlotte wrote: "Thank you, Lady C

Also his crime does not seem so violent - in comparison to the d..."

And now I realize that he bribed Raffles and sold stolen goods. So he was a bad person.

Charlotte wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Thank you, Lady C

Also his crime does not seem so violent - in comparison to the d..."

And now I realize that he bribed Raffles and sold stolen goods. So he was a bad person."

Yes- perhaps not all bad, but not above bending his principles for his own gain. To a much lesser extent Lydgate can be seen as having done that too in the tyke situation

I'm yet to read couple of chapters to finish this segment. I'm really grieved at the situation in Lydgate household. It seems no friend is able to help him from falling in to a poor living which is unsuited for a learned professional man. The most worrying however is the rift the situation has brought on between Rosamond and Lydgate. Lydgate seeks the warmth and sympathy in Rosamond only to receive a cold detachment. I feel sorry for both and hope they can come to a better understanding.

Raffles playing a dangerous game with Mr. Bulstrode, and I fear that the former is trying the patience of the latter too much. Even a god fearing man as Bulstrode has his limits. What baffles me however is that why after threatening and blackmailing Bulstrode, Raffles places himself at Bulstrode's mercy.

What a pathetic book VII! Not pathetic on the part of GE, but pathetic on the part of human nature when it expresses all its baseness.
This Bulstrode-Raffles case gave me something to think about:
Raffles is a very bad man: alcoholic, violent towards his late wife and son-in-law when he was a child, blackmailer. Do I regret his death? No, not at all!
But is Bulstrode guilty of having, in a way, let him die? Well... yes... okay. But Bulstrode is only a human, after all! He closes his eyes to things he would have to face if he had more greatness of soul and courage.
In fact, Lydgate does exactly the same thing as Bulstrode: he turns a blind eye to who Bulstrode really is and accepts his money. Yet Lydgate never liked Bulstrode, because something told his conscience that Bulstrode was not a saint. But Lydgate, like Bulstrode, prefers to run away without trying to understand the underside of Bulstrode's reversal of opinion towards him, rather than face his harsh reality.
Raffles, Bulstrode and Lydgate are guilty of weaknesses, each on of them to different degrees. They have put themselves in unpleasant situations and are trying to get out of it by finding questionable solutions.
But the inhabitants and the so-called gentlemen of Middlemarch... how guilty and despicable they are to me!

They have no immediate problems, their lives are running smoothly, so what's the point of them getting involved in Bulstrode and Lydgate's life? None, none except their lowliness. They are among those millions of people who think they can grow by lowering others.
Because, no matter if a Raffles is alive or dead? And Bulstrode has done some good things for the people of Middlemarch: the hospital, the cholera measures. Some of his actions affect his conscience? And so what! It's a matter between him and God. How does this concern the "gentlemen" of Middlemarch? What right do these "good Christians" have to take themselves for God on earth? As for Lydgate, he had told Farebrother his intention to get off on the right foot this time, to lower his ambitions to get back on track financially and make his marriage work. But how will it be achieved with the intervention of the wrong tongues?
Much more harm will probably be done by Middlemarch's "good Christians" than by Raffles, Bulstrode and Lydgate.

I was right to feel uneasy for Raffles; Bulstrode has showed to what extent he can fall to secure his position in life in the eyes of the Middlemarchers. But all his attempts are in vain, for Middlemarch soon learn the truth about his past.

I read the last chapter of this segment with much interest. Eliot has beautifully portrayed how fast the gossip travel in provincial counties. It seems to whole town is discussing Bulstrode's secret under his very nose.

I'm sad to see Lydgate mixed up in another scandal. Poor fellow! He encounters one trouble after another. I wonder how Rosamond will take this one in.

I'm pretty excited to read the final segment. There are lot of open questions which will be hopefully answered. I'm really enjoying the read. This is the first time I could say I enjoyed a work by Eliot. Guess I have read the wrong books first.

Piyangie wrote: "Eliot has beautifully portrayed how fast the gossip travel in provincial counties...

Yes, this was a perfect work by Eliot, you're right.
Gossip travels as fast with Internet around the world!

Piyangie wrote: "I'm sad to see Lydgate mixed up in another scandal. Poor fellow! He encounters one trouble after another. I wonder how Rosamond will take this one in..."

Poor fellow, I agree, and wonder too about Rosamonde.

Piyangie wrote: "I'm pretty excited to read the final segment. There are lot of open questions which will be hopefully answered. I'm really enjoying the read. This is the first time I could say I enjoyed a work by ..."

Yes, I am also excited to see how the story turns out in the final segment. It looks like so many of the persons are explained and ready ... for being put neatly together in a final plot.

Will has been away for a long time. How will he be when he returns... Will Rosamond’s story finish in an interesting way... Will Dorothea be the clever and almighty woman ...

And I am a bit behind too. So I will not open the final discussion page until later.

Piyangie wrote: "I'm pretty excited to read the final segment. There are lot of open questions which will be hopefully answered. I'm really enjoying the read. This is the first time I could say I enjoyed a work by ..."

The Mill on the Floss is very different, indeed. Based on much less characters and seen from its heroine. I liked it a lot too. It's feminist, that's the point of having a sister and a brother: to show the difference of education and expectations.

Gabrielle wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I'm pretty excited to read the final segment. There are lot of open questions which will be hopefully answered. I'm really enjoying the read. This is the first time I could say I e..."

So it is- that represented the differences that arose between George Eliot and her brother since she too was in a relationship that was not socially approved.

Lady Clementina wrote: Bulstrode was married to Will's gramdmother (her second marriage) who had asked him to locate her runaway daughter (Will's mother) before she married him so that she could give her her share of the property. ..."

Will’s story is just confusing. It would be nice with a chart showing how he is connected to Bulstrode - and also how he is connected to Casaubon. What place does the grandmother or daughter have in Casaubon’s family? Is it clear to all of you - or do you think it doesn’t matter so much; just enjoy the story?

Charlotte wrote: "Will’s story is just confusing...."

Casaubon had an aunt (or a sister? Can't remember...) who married a man she loved, but this led her family to reject her. This aunt is the woman whose portrait Dorothy admires in the boudoir. The portrait that looks like Will. Indeed, Casaubon's aunt is Will's grandmother. Will is therefore a little cousin of Casaubon.
Casaubon's aunt (Will's grandmother) had a daughter: Will's mother, and a husband for whom she had left her family. Honest husband (who came from Poland?) who found himself in charge of a suspicious financial transaction business, but the wife knew nothing about it. The husband dies, leaving Casaubon's aunt a rich widow.
In the meantime, the daughter has left to become an actress. She too is therefore, like her mother, rejected by her family. She had a son: Will.
The widow (Casaubon's aunt and Will's grandmother) wants to find her daughter. Raffles (widow's employee?) and Bulstrode, widow's employee too, help her to find her. After some time, the widow thinks there is no hope of finding her daughter, she gives up the idea.
But the daughter (the actress) is found, and Bulstrode hides this fact from the widow, his boss. Because Bulstrode prefers to marry his boss, the widow older than him, but richer, and thus start his own fortune. So Will is Bulstrode's step-grandson by marriage.
Will should have been the one who inherited his grandmother's fortune, instead of Bulstrode.
In fact, Will should have legitimately inherited Casaubon's fortune as his grand-little-cousin (Not sure about my English…) or at least a part of it shared with Casaubon’s wife (Dorothée), and his grandmother's fortune. But Bulstrode has everything Will should have had: the money of the grandmother he married in his first marriage and the land of Featherstone he bought with his fortune obtained through a lie by omission.

Gabrielle wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Will’s story is just confusing...."

Casaubon had an aunt (or a sister? Can't remember...) who married a man she loved, but this led her family to reject her. This aunt is the wom..."

Sigh! It it truly complicated. George Eliot, what is going on... (!) It must be for the sake of the plot and ending, which I am looking forward to.

Gabrielle! <3
Thank you so much for your explanation. I read it and made a drawing/chart at the same time. If anybody needs it, I can send it. :)