Ultimate Popsugar Reading Challenge discussion

I'm assuming WOC stands for woman of color. There are so many amazing books by women of color. What's on your list?

Listopia link: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

Americanah has been on my list for awhile. Purple Hibiscus was brilliant!

I also have Buried Beneath the Baobab Tree on my shelf. So many awesome choices.

My TBR is full of these- although I did make some gender assumptions based on author photo; if any of these authors don't identify as women (or aren't actually WOC), let me know!

The Book of Unknown Americans by Cristina Henriquez
Internment by Samira Ahmed
How Long 'til Black Future Month? by N.K. Jemison
Pushout: The Criminalization of Black Girls in Schools by Monique W. Morris
Colonize This! Young Women of Color on Today's Feminism, edited by Bushra Rehman and Daisy Hernandez (obv. all contributions are also WOC!)
Mama Day by Gloria Naylor
Washington Black by Esi Edugyan
She Would Be King by Wayetu Moore
Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko
Swing Time by Zadie Smith
The Disturbed Girl's Dictionary by NoNieqa Ramos
The Hate U Give by Angie Thomas
Sister Citizen: Shame, Stereotypes, and Black Women in America by Melissa V. Harris-Perry

Becoming
The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
Kindred
The Fifth Season

Here We Are: American Dreams, American Nightmares

I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "other" category. But I feel this is a discussion not really fit for a written commentary in this forum so I will let it go.

Anyway I just bought The Hairdresser of Harare by Tendai Huchu and that´s what I am going to read. It doesn´t feature (I think) a minority experience, which I also believe is somehow implied in the POC term?, since the main character is a black Zimbabwean living in Zimbabwe.

An Extraordinary Union
Do You Dream of Terra-Two?

I've been trying to read these books for almost a year, and I never quite get around to them. Hopefully I can fit both of them into the challenge somewhere.

Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "other" category. Bu..."

I said pretty much the same at the same time as you in another tread. I would only use the term for US Americans because that's where it originates, I presume, not for Africans, Asians or Latin Americans (or the Spanish who for some reason are sometimes included). (And in my language it would be translated as "coloured", so no, it's not in use here, either.)

I'll be reading a new author as a challenge for myself, but want to recommend EVERYTHING by NK Jemisin. Her stories are wonderful and elaborate - 100% would read again.

Tytti wrote: "Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "oth..."

Yeah, that´s probably also why I feel it´s cheating to use an African African, and not an American African. Oh well. I´ll see what I end up reading and try not to be bothered too much by the term.

Yes, the “woman of color” term is an American term. There is nothing about it that implies a minority status, it is simply a slightly awkward way to say “not solely of European origin.” It is not cheating to read a book by an African woman that is set in Africa.

Johanne wrote: "Anyway I just bought The Hairdresser of Harare by Tendai Huchu and that´s what I am going to read..."

I think Tendai's a man though.

I am probably going to read something by Attica Locke. Her novel Bluebird, Bluebird won both the Edgar and Anthony awards last year. I read it and really enjoyed it.

Ellie wrote: "Johanne wrote: "Anyway I just bought The Hairdresser of Harare by Tendai Huchu and that´s what I am going to read..."

I think Tendai's a man though."

Hahaha! You´re right! I pay a lot of attention to gender as you can see. This is pretty stupid because I lived in Zimbabwe and had a classmate called Tendai, who was a boy, so I should have figured it out...

Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "other" category. Bu..."

My thoughts exactly...

Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "other" category. Bu..."

POC just means people of color and the publishing world is full of just that white perspective .. up until a few years ago there weren't a lot of options to read from authors of color, so the term is necessary because it is an"other" perspective outside the mainstream.

I'll be reading On Beauty by Zadie Smith.

Khristina wrote: "Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "oth..."

I understand where it´s coming from and I sympathise with it, it just seems counterproductive in the way the language structure puts people of colour in a different box than "us" - meaning "we" are "naturally" white and thus enhances the blind spot of white privilege.

I know there are no easy solutions. And I don´t know what term to use instead.

Khristina wrote: "Johanne wrote: "I am not a fan of the POC term. I think it is based on an understanding of a "we" that implies the perspective is the white privileged and thus places other skin colours in the "oth..."

Maya Angelou--I just added the two books by her that I've read :)

On Beauty is one of the books I found on my Want to Read Shelf, but I have a number I am interested both on and off that shelf by WOC so haven't yet decided. I see that I only gave White Teeth two stars, but don't remember what it is about her writing I didn't care for and here are many other WOC authors whose writing I like.

Another recommendation not mentioned here but is one of the ones I've read on that first page of the Listopia is Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston which is a classic :)

I've added a few of the other women of colour I've read that weren't already on the list, OR in at least one case another title, but since I don't shelve by race (by country sometimes) I can't be sure anymore for books I read many years ago.

Nadine wrote: "it is simply a slightly awkward way to say “not solely of European origin.” It is not cheating to read a book by an African woman that is set in Africa."

No, probably not cheating, just disrespectful (and, frankly, racist, IMO), especially when people from Latin America who are also of European origin are still considered "POC" in the US for no other reason than their nationality. (And I would have been, as well, a little over 100 years ago.) Because I doubt that the African woman thinks of herself as a "WOC", unless of course she goes to USA where she is then told that she is, like it or not, and lumped together with billions of other "non-whites"... In other countries she is defined by her nationality or ethnic origin, not just the colour of her skin.

Tytti wrote: "Nadine wrote: "it is simply a slightly awkward way to say “not solely of European origin.” It is not cheating to read a book by an African woman that is set in Africa."

No, probably not cheating, ..."

I have a difficult time with this as well. The issue lies in that the Hispanic population comes from a variety of parts of the world--some really are people of colour if they come from the Americans and are part or all indigenous people.

What defines race has changed significantly when I was a child--then it wasn't as much about colour--I was classified Caucasian which included most Europeans and Russians (but of course not the Inuit, Saami and other far Eurasian northern peoples of colour- along with everyone from India and other countries near to them--now that's no longer a term that is used. Back then Jewish people were classified as Caucasian, and Hispanic people were classified by races accordingly--but not all Spanish people from Spain are of pure European descent due to the Moors, so often they are a blend.

My question with the WOC category is someone who is half Japanese or half Chinese but looks more "white" no longer a person of colour? I opted to choose both Gabrielle Zevin and Lisa See--I had to dig when I found Zevin on an authors of colour list, but Zevin is half Japanese.

OMG I had no idea Gyasi had a new book coming in 2020!!!!

These are all on my TBR.

I have 3 on my list that I'm considering for this prompt:

The Space Between Us - Thrity Umrigar
Pachinko - Min Jin Lee
Erotic Stories For Punjabi Widows - Balli Kaur Jaswal

I am anticipating reading several authors' novels forming A Season of Suspense just released..

I have so many options for this, so I probably won’t plan to read a specific book for this.

Books I’ve read and would recommend are:

The Hate U Give
On the Come Up
Half Blood Blues
Little Fires Everywhere
The Color Purple
A Cupboard Full of Coats
The Fire This Time: A New Generation Speaks about Race

I love short story collections, and this one looks good:

I get where people are coming from on the POC term being applied worldwide. I felt a little weird about it too. I think it might be better to get more specific in the future. Like, maybe they could have a prompt to read a book by an author of African descent, or Asian descent or whatever. Then the prompt works for people who were born or live in those parts of the world, or for authors who live in other parts of the world but whose families came from Africa, Asia, etc. It accomplishes the goal of getting people to branch out without leaving us to define who qualifies as a WOC (which frankly made me feel uncomfortable). I don't know, maybe that's also a crappy idea, but I'd prefer it.

Few choices for this one I am going to chose from
The Bride Test
Children of Blood and Bone
To All the Boys I've Loved Before
Fumbled
My Sister, the Serial Killer
Queenie

A short list of First Nations Women writers - most are not of my band, tribe or even nation, but I have enjoyed their writings, and I can relate to a lot of their experiences:

Paula Gunn Allen
Leslie Marmon Silko
Joy Harjo
Janet Campbell Hale
Linda Hogan
Beth Brant
Terri Mayette
Diane Glancy
Sherry Proulx
Wendy Rose
Hum-Ishi- Ma
Marilous Awiatka
Nan Benally
Winona LaDuke
Lenore Keeshig-Tobias
Joan Isom
Luci Tapahonso

Two Mi'kmaq poets:

Rita Joe
Kateri Sardella

I plan to read No Crystal Stair: A Documentary Novel of the Life and Work of Lewis Michaux, Harlem Bookseller by Vaunda Micheaux Nelson. She is a local author (and librarian) and did such a great job talking about her books, at an authors' event last year, that I purchased this book.

I've been meaning to read You Can't Touch My Hair: And Other Things I Still Have to Explain forever, hopefully this will finally be the year!

Lilith wrote: "A short list of First Nations Women writers - most are not of my band, tribe or even nation, but I have enjoyed their writings, and I can relate to a lot of their experiences:

Paula Gunn Allen
Les..."

I keep thinking I have read another one, and then wonder if I am mixing things up with a First Nations singer! Thanks for this list! I am going to see if anyone from the First Nations reserve in my hometown has published something. I might check with Harbour Press first since they publish things of interest in BC. I went to school with kids from the shíshálh Nation since their homes were in walking distance of the school and one of my youngest brother's best friends is the nephew of one of the girls in my grade--they still keep in touch after all these years. My dad has a collection of shíshálh baskets woven by Mary Jackson that she used trade for services plus extra cash before BC Med came along so I have a long time respect for much of this culture even though it's not my own.

PS this is correct--the shíshálh Nation doesn't use upper case on their website https://shishalh.com/

I agree with others that ‘POC’ is an Ameri-centric term. I don’t identify as “POC”. It’s useful, though, so I can live with it.

I'm reading Flood Damages for this category. Trying to read as many books from the southern hemisphere as I can for this challenge.

Among the books from the listopia link there's also Love in the Time of Cholera, which is definitely NOT written by a woman.

Hahaha I need to reapply for a librarian status so I can clean up the lists when someone points this stuff out. As it stands now, hopefully a librarian member will see this comment and fix the list.

Nadine wrote: "Hahaha I need to reapply for a librarian status so I can clean up the lists when someone points this stuff out. As it stands now, hopefully a librarian member will see this comment and fix the list."

Fixed

I am going to reread Cane River and read the sister novel Red River for the challenge. It is a semi-autobiographical of the author who based them on her genealogical research with Elizabeth Shown Mills. I loved the book the first time I read it and want to reread to refresh my memory. Cane River is on the list and if someone would add the other, I would appreciate it.

Tanvi wrote: "I agree with others that ‘POC’ is an Ameri-centric term. I don’t identify as “POC”. It’s useful, though, so I can live with it.

I'm reading Flood Damages for this category. Trying ..."

Yes it is. I now say black again instead of African-American or people of colour because I have various friends of African descent from other countries who don't like it and I remember when black was the correct word (before PC was a term). But I will use this for reading things, etc, because it helps or there are times IRL when I know not to say black. Also, I have other friends "of colour" from East Asia and South America who don't care for person of colour, either. It is impossible to please everyone and I have given up.

Karin wrote: "Tanvi wrote: "I agree with others that ‘POC’ is an Ameri-centric term. I don’t identify as “POC”. It’s useful, though, so I can live with it.

I'm reading Flood Damages for this cat..."

Oh Karin, I hope you don't give up. It's confusing, but, if you have the opportunity IRL to ask the person what they prefer to be called, it is appreciated. We appreciate allies.

My mother said once that she'd been called red, Red Indian, Indian, Red (when some of us were taking back the word), Native American and Indigenous, and that "they'll have a new word for us tomorrow". She died before First Nations really came into use.
In my case, I will use my tribe or nation name. Other times I say First Nations.

Her point is well-taken. Most of the words to describe us were made up by people who are not us.

We need a name that works like "non-binary". Non-dominant-paradigm-people?

I always try to use the terms that people use to describe themselves, but it can be difficult to know, and I trust I don’t piss anyone off if I mess up despite my good intentions!

I thought it was interesting that Tommy Orange used a few different terms in “There There” including Native and Native American - I guess that was his way of showing that different people use different terms.

One of the best books I've ever read--Jam on the Vine! I LOVE THIS BOOK! It covers so much...and her characterization is remarkable, IMHO!

Lilith wrote: "Karin wrote: "Tanvi wrote: "I agree with others that ‘POC’ is an Ameri-centric term. I don’t identify as “POC”. It’s useful, though, so I can live with it.

I'm reading [book:Flood Damages|41633282..."

As a born and raised Canadian, I say First Nations, Inuit or Métis for many Canadians unless I know their nation's name, such as the shíshálh Nation. But then I try to be conscious of when in time I am talking about, because Métis has changed meanings over time, as you know! In the US I say Native American. Sometimes I say indigenous, but then I realize that many from south of the US and Canada once lived here and were pushed out hundreds of years ago by people from more northern areas (I was just chatting with a "native American" man who reminded me of thsi), so that term is hard to use.

I still say East Indian for people from India, though, because I still hear that in Vancouver even from people whose forbears came from India and even though I know it's not the East Indies!

BUT for people of African or partial African descent I say black and most people are fine with it. Also, someday what if I meet and Aussie who is Aboriginal (the correct term) or a Torres Strait Islander and as far as anyone knows, they are not of African descent, but I am not adept enough to be able to tell the difference.

Lilith wrote: "Non-dominant-paradigm-people.."

This is an interesting question, but it's difficult to answer. If we are talking USA and Canada, for example, this could work. But it doesn't work globally where people of European descent comprise 16 percent of the world's population and people of African descent 15 percent. The majority are from various parts of Asia and are not "white" or "black."

That said, North American "indigenous" peoples (because different countries use different terms) are a smaller minority than 15 percent.

This is also hard because sometimes we, including me, confuse where things come from. For example, much of our knowledge has its roots in a variety of traditionally literate peoples and not just in Europe, and these have all influenced many cultures. Many myths are perpetuated regarding this knowledge, as well. Gun powder was invented in China, for example, and it's a current Western myth that it was only used for fireworks when, in fact, it was used in weaponry as early as 904 AD. https://www.thoughtco.com/invention-o... I remember learning this in school, but I am not sure if it's still in the textbooks.

Much of our western ideology has been shaped by trade and history with the middle and far east much longer than people realize, and vice versa :).Japanese leadership was so afraid of this sort of thing closed their borders from 1600 to 1868.

Karin wrote: "Lilith wrote: "Non-dominant-paradigm-people.."

This is an interesting question, but it's difficult to answer. If we are talking USA and Canada, for example, this could work. But it doesn't work gl..."

Well said! There are no truly easy answers. I personally am ok with being called a WOC, because of its roots in the movement against violence against women, and in the struggle feminism has had with inclusion.

Lilith wrote: "Well said! There are no truly easy answers. I personally am ok with being called a WOC, because of its roots in the movement against violence against women, and in the struggle feminism has had with inclusion. ."

Thanks. I was thinking about our conversation after I got off the computer last night and this ties in with feminism. I've read it twice, but the first time I read this book was when I did a minor in Women's Studies at SFU (when you could only get a minor and UBC didn't even have enough courses to do a minor) Many Tender Ties: Women in Fur-Trade Society, 1670–1870. It isn't very closely related to our topic, but it came to mind anyway--it is a bit related. The terminology will be somewhat dated, but it shows some of the complicated relationships fur traders had with their First Nations' wives (some loved their wives very much, but there was often a great deal of misunderstanding, and not all were that loving etc) and then the transition to marrying the Metis daughters of other fur traders, etc. Have you read it?

It will NOT work for this challenge, but is set in a country that starts with a C, Canada. I ought to go add it to that list. I ought to buy it again (not sure what happened to my original copy but I've moved many times over the years).

Karin wrote: "Lilith wrote: "Well said! There are no truly easy answers. I personally am ok with being called a WOC, because of its roots in the movement against violence against women, and in the struggle femin..."

I haven't read this, but I would definitely be interested in checking it out. I'm very interested in First Nations in Canada, as our Nation is Abenaki (or Wabenaki when I was growing up) . Our Nations spans what is now the Maritime provinces in Canada and Maine in the U.S. So the complex relationships of intermarriage definitely interests me.

Thank you for the rec!

Lilith wrote: "Karin wrote: "Lilith wrote: "Well said! There are no truly easy answers. I personally am ok with being called a WOC, because of its roots in the movement against violence against women, and in the ..."

You're welcome, and since we live in the same state perhaps someday we'll meet up. I go to Beantown regularly during my son's college semester, etc. I can't recall of the Abenaki are mentioned in that book now since it has been a good 10-15 years since I reread it but a quick DuckDuckGo search mentioned that the Abenaki were involved in trading beaver pelts so it is possible! Perhaps it's time for a reread, but then I have a pile of books sitting here that I've never read.

"We Should All Be Feminists" by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie. The only reason I bought this was to support an indie bookstore while on a weekend trip.

So, W/POC isn't a term we use so much in the UK. Does it apply to anyone who isn't white? Or just African American? Because here if we say someone is black they are typically of African or Caribbean descent, but you wouldn't really use it to describe someone of, say, Indian or Pakistani origin (they would be called Asian) or Japanese/Chinese etc (who would be either just called Japanese etc or maybe Oriental).

If it includes anyone who isn't white, then I'm going for Indian American Sejal Badani's The Storyteller's Secret

Sarah wrote: "So, W/POC isn't a term we use so much in the UK. Does it apply to anyone who isn't white? Or just African American? Because here if we say someone is black they are typically of African or Caribbea..."



POC basically is the current way to say "not a white person." I think POC is synonymous with BIPOC in the UK? Japanese, Indians and Pakistanis would all be POC. It's just a term, it's got nothing to do with actual skin color.

Nadine wrote: "Sarah wrote: "So, W/POC isn't a term we use so much in the UK. Does it apply to anyone who isn't white? Or just African American? Because here if we say someone is black they are typically of Afric..."

Also North American indigenous peoples, Australian aboritionals, Polynesians. Maori, etc, etc.