The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

What does everyone this of the Gibson-French story-line? I found this section dragged a bit as I'm not particularly interested in this sub-plot, however when Dorothy says, intending to speak of herself, in Ch 51..

Because they're just nobodies. They are not anything particular to anybody, and so they go on living till they die. You know what I mean, Mr. Burgess. A man who is a nobody can perhaps make himself somebody,—or, at any rate, he can try; but a woman has no means of trying. She is a nobody, and a nobody she must remain. She has her clothes and her food, but she isn't wanted anywhere. People put up with her, and that is about the best of her luck. If she were to die somebody perhaps would be sorry for her, but nobody would be worse off. She doesn't earn anything or do any good. She is just there and that's all."

and Brooke jokingly says that Arabella French is one of those women, I sensed sympathy from Trollope. He is rather accurately describing those women who nobody will love, and who will have no purpose in life, not only Arabella French but also Prudence in this novel. Despite Arabella's foolishness and desperation, I didn't feel Trollope was mocking her, rather pointing out just how very sad was her lot in life.

On a more cheerful note, Dorothy's standing is about to improve. Once again, however, I am surprised she would give no hint of encouragement to Brooke, in the same way that Nora Rowley gave no hint of encouragement to Hugh Stanbury, despite a clear declaration of love. Would that have been considered so unseemly for these women to admit any return of affection? Are they risking losing their lovers if they are misunderstood? Or is Trollope implying that even with no encouragement by word, they in fact gave encouragement by their looks or actions? (Which brings up all other sorts of confusion for men and women, and brings poor Mr Collins from Pride and Prejudice to mind!)

Finally, the Trevelyan's move into darker and more desperate territory, when Louis attempts to employ Bozzle in picking up the child, with no plan of where to take the child once acquired. Bozzle would be comic relief except that we can see he is the one driving Trevelyan further into actions which do him and his marriage irreparable harm. Trollope describes Bozzle thus:

He was a man loving power, and specially anxious to enforce obedience from those with whom he came in contact by the production of the law's mysterious authority. In his heart he was ever tapping people on the shoulder, and telling them that they were wanted. Thus, when he displayed his document to Mr. Outhouse, he had taught himself at least to desire that that document should be obeyed.

Trollope's ability to understand the Psyche of a wide variety of characters is a large part of my enjoyment of his novels.

I'm becoming more interested in Dorothy as she acquires a bit more confidence and initiative. I feel she gave no encouragement to Brooke because his declaration really did come totally out of the blue - she simply hadn't seen him in that light before and her thoughts are all "dislocated," as Trollope puts it. She's so accustomed to having to accommodate herself to other people's wishes that it requires a real effort for her to consider her own.

Interesting too that Martha now treats Dorothy with more respect since the rejection of Mr Gibson. I feel I should pay more attention to Martha - though very much a background figure, she seems to be a sensible and sincerely pious person who does much to keep Miss Stanbury's household on an even keel.

And I rather liked the passages between Mr Gibson and the Frenches, gruesome courtship though it is, because the tale of the chignon has a comic poignancy and Trollope finally gives us a more compassionate view of Arabella. Give her her due - she is prepared to be good, loving and obedient to Mr Gibson if he will only offer for her. Which of course he doesn't, but plumps rather unfairly for Camilla; and is equally unfairly angry with his dear Cammy when she negotiates a wedding date 4 months away. I suspect, like Miss Stanbury, that Camilla will lead him "the very devil of a life," and like Miss Stanbury I feel some glee at the prospect.

I only wish that Dorothy (and Nora earlier), rather than giving what sound like "no"s would say something like "Please give me a fortnight to think this sudden offer over" as it rather feels they've left the gentlemen with no obligation to keep the offer on the table.

I agree that Mr Gibson has perhaps picked the more difficult (and certainly the nastier) of the two sisters, and rather think that he will get what he deserves!

Just popping in to say I agree with the previous comments!

Just realised I'd been reading ahead (to chapter 54) when I wrote about Camilla leading Mr Gibson the devil of a life. oops, sorry.

But I have been enjoying the contrast between Dorothy and the French sisters. The way she can talk quite naturally and intimately with Brooke Burgess just points up the huge gap in any real intimacy or even liking between Mr Gibson and either of the Frenches. Of course much of this is down to Brooke's engaging personality; and I also wonder if Dorothy would have been able to talk so openly to him if she had thought of him as a possible suitor. In that case she might have clammed up entirely.

Does everyone have illustrations of the chignon/headresses the young women are wearing?

This illustration from my version, titled "Miss Stanbury Visits the Frenches" shows Camilla in the full chignon while Arabella is now wearing the simpler style.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...

I wonder if Trollope has been portraying, through the the persona of Mr. Gibson, a general observation of how a large proportion of women at that time were ‘chosen’ to be wives. Mr. Gibson certainly treated all three women as ‘nobodies,’ definitely not his equal. He obviously thinks he is doing all of them a favour by even considering them. The chignon only emphasises the shallowness of his consideration of a future partner in life.

I was less surprised about Dorothy than Nora. Dorothy’s shock of receiving yet another proposal, this time from a man she admires so much, coming so soon after Mr. Gibson has left her wary of saying anything she might regret later. Her emotions have been given a severe pummelling and she needs time to think things through.

Louis has lost it completely. Even Bozzle’s wife disapproves of removing the child, but she isn’t listened to either. At least Louis hasn’t hired a disreputable lawyer (yet?) He is thinking of coming back home. Could this be a tiny chink of light in this terrible situation or am I too late to even think of any positive resolution?

On a side note, how does everyone pronounce Louis? I was pronouncing it Lou-eee until I saw the child's name written as Louey. Would it be pronounced Lewis in the UK? Elsewhere?

I wasn't quite sure, but I think I eventually went with "Lewis" when hearing the characters in my head.

Frances wrote: "Does everyone have illustrations of the chignon/headresses the young women are wearing?

This illustration from my version, titled "Miss Stanbury Visits the Frenches..."

Thanks, I hadn't realised just how cumbersome a thing a chignon could be. It certainly isn't exactly a thing of beauty.

But Trev is right about how it demonstrates the shallowness of Mr Gibson's preferences. Maybe the knowledge that he can pick and choose a marriage partner breeds complacency; but Mr Gibson is clearly not a very reflective person in any case. Meanwhile over in Florence, Mr Glascock is doing the same sort of picking and choosing, if in a more amiable way. The only choice the girl seems to have is whether or not to indicate that she's interested.

Emma wrote: "Frances wrote: "Does everyone have illustrations of the chignon/headresses the young women are wearing?

This illustration from my version, titled "Miss Stanbury Visits the Frenches..."

I have found a very interesting article with the title of ‘Evils of the Victorian Chignon,’ the link is below.

https://www.geriwalton.com/evil-victo...

It may be a humorous article but after reading it I wondered if Arabella’s chignon was in some way a symbol of deceitfulness. There was certainly a lack of honesty on Mr. Gibson’s side. The larger ones must have been uncomfortable at the best of times, particularly if they got wet!

William and Kate (Duke and Duchess of Cambridge) named their third child Louis and pronounce it in the French way. In the UK there has been a rise in popularity of the name in modern times and both pronunciations are used almost equally as far as I can tell. I have also been thinking of Mr. Trevelyan as a ‘Lewis.’

I guess if Arabella and Camilla both wore chignons, it wasn't exactly the chignon that Mr. Gibson was opposed to, but rather the chignon on Bella. Perhaps she wasn't able to style it as well as her sister, or, being a bit less attractive, it was too much of a contrast.

I'm looking at starting The Way We Live Now in mid-February, but wanted to get an idea of participation level-could all those who have been participating in The Trollope Project (even if not the current book) let me know if you're planning to read The Way We Live Now and/or Ayala's Angel-thanks.

I haven't been participating but would like to take part in the next two reads, The Way We Live Now and Ayala's Angel.

Frances wrote: "What does everyone this of the Gibson-French story-line? I found this section dragged a bit as I'm not particularly interested in this sub-plot, however when Dorothy says, intending to speak of her..."

Trollope's ability to understand the Psyche of a wide variety of characters is a large part of my enjoyment of his novels.

Ditto. I wonder what he was like to talk to, very curious, full of interesting vignettes like an advice columnist?

I liked the French Sister bits. The scene Mr. Gibson and Arabella was quite amusing what with allusions to the warty monster on the back of her head; angling to catch the fish, wriggling on her hook but she couldn't quite land him; and Greek myths of doom:

The Charybdis in the Close drove him helpless into the whirlpool of the Heavitree Scylla. He had no longer an escape from the perils of the latter shore. He had been so mauled by the opposite waves, that he had neither spirit nor skill left to him to keep in the middle track. He was almost daily at Heavitree, and did not attempt to conceal from himself the approach of his doom.

Trev wrote: "I was less surprised about Dorothy than Nora"

While reading it I didn't find it quite believable. Hadn't she been pining after him for months? But after thinking it over I decided she was being "too Honest" again.
The rich guy said "Can you love me?" No, even though she might marry him.
The poor guy said "Will you marry me?" No, even though she might love him.
Sort of The Gift of the Magi-ish.

I bet Nora and Mr Stanbury's love will win out by the end!