SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

They're doing a new version of what is arguably one of the most iconic Scifi novels of all time, Dune.
Theres very little info out so far with a planned Dec 2020 release date, but its getting a big budget, and the speculation thus far is very positive. The cast is mostly known and there are a few Photos, but no Trailer that Ive seen yet.
There are also some things suggesting that it will be made into 2 movies rather then just the one for the first novel.

What do you think? Will it finally succeed where past attempts to adapt this have fallen short?

I have seen the David Lynch movie (big budget, interesting visually but not really understanding the story)

I also saw the mini series , both Dune and Children of Dune (low budget, but far more in line with the stories)

Not sure I actually need another Dune movie.

I agree with Lars. I consider the Dune miniseries with William Hurt to be completely satisfactory. I prefer the actor that played Paul Atreides in the movie to the one in the miniseries but that is not a biggie.

Yeah, if we just got the mini-series with some extra cash and dealt with a few of the problematic elements a little more thoughtfully, I think I'd be okay with it. I'm excited though to see some of the new cinematic tricks we've acquired put to use!

If anyone can do it, it’s Denis Villeneuve. Arrival is a brilliant film, Sicario is terrific, and even Blade Runner 2049 is solid. If it were anyone else, I’d give it a pass, but with him at the helm I’m intrigued.

In the meantime, I highly, highly recommend the documentary Jodorowsky’s Dune. Trailer: https://youtu.be/m0cJNR8HEw0 It’s fascinating and his ideas were just flat-out insane. What he did to his son... I’m still shaking my head. See it, be amazed.

I didn't know anything about it until this post. I can remember seeing the Lynch's version and not understanding it until I read the book. I remember loving the book (read more than 30 yrs ago). The movie did seem better after reading the book. I was in total agreement w/ Lars until I saw a couple of snipets and yes there appears to be a trailer (though an extremely vague one) here. It was enough to get me interested. I'll probably reread the novel sooner than expected in anticipation of the movie.

Also, I really liked the mini-series. Especially Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.

Children of Dune is something I've watched more than I care to admit. So pretend I didn't just admit it, for my dignity's sake please.

But yeah, after the miniserieses, I'm hopeful!

I love Dune. Have mixed feelings about the movie adaptation, and have never seen the miniseries. However, there are so many original works out there. I'd love to see something new on the Move/TV screen.

As normal, I approach the new project with skepticism. It's always better to set your expectations low. Like with The Witcher ... expected crap and got a half-decent interpretation, so in the end, I'm much more pleased than if I had expected it to be great.

Lynch's Dune was beautiful and got a lot of things right IMHO. Sets and costumes were amazing. The acting, for the most part, was spot on, some really big talent there (not a fan of Kyle MacLachlan). But it was a muddled production that really should have been done as a miniseries. And, of course, it's not Frank Herbert's Dune but David Lynch's Dune. Lynch twisted the ending to pretty much the opposite of the books.

The lower budget miniseries was much closer to the books but for me was really bland. The acting wasn't up to snuff and, sorry, but IMHO William Hurt was totally wrong for that role. Anyway, it was OK but pretty meh.

And neither show has done justice to Baron Vladimir Harkonnen .. He was a comic nut job in Lynch's movie and the miniseries he just didn't have enough ... gravitas? The Baron in the book was portrayed as supremely intelligent, amoral, scheming, manipulative, and coldly calculating.

Anyway, I'm interested to see the new films. But I'm not really expecting them to live up to my wishes.

Lars wrote: "I have seen the David Lynch movie (big budget, interesting visually but not really understanding the story)

I also saw the mini series , both Dune and Children of Dune (low budget, but far more in..."

Imho, David Lynch's "Dune" wasn't very good. Left too many holes in the narrative.

Karl wrote: "I agree with Lars. I consider the Dune miniseries with William Hurt to be completely satisfactory. I prefer the actor that played Paul Atreides in the movie to the one in the miniseries but that is..."

I agree completely.

Karl wrote: "I agree with Lars. I consider the Dune miniseries with William Hurt to be completely satisfactory. I prefer the actor that played Paul Atreides in the movie to the one in the miniseries but that is..."

David Lynch picked good actors for the roles but chopped the heck out of the story. The Mini-Series was hit and miss on the actors, starting with William Hurt as Leto, but kept to the Story very well.

Monica wrote: "I didn't know anything about it until this post. I can remember seeing the Lynch's version and not understanding it until I read the book. I remember loving the book (read more than 30 yrs ago). Th..."

Well, it is kind of vague, but it had a lot going for it. Although for a moment there I thought I saw one of the Starships from the John Carter of Mars series, that died after one. The arrival of the Sandworm at the end looked like it would be epic on the big screen.

Allison wrote: "Yeah, if we just got the mini-series with some extra cash and dealt with a few of the problematic elements a little more thoughtfully, I think I'd be okay with it. I'm excited though to see some of..."

Yes, this. I had a lot of issues with the first book when I finally read it last summer and, imho, the film would need to do quite some work to get around those.

I remember seeing a trailer for the miniseries when it was first released on German TV, but I think I was too young to watch it back then and I only realized it existed when reading the book.

Trike wrote: "If anyone can do it, it’s Denis Villeneuve. Arrival is a brilliant film, Sicario is terrific, and even Blade Runner 2049 is solid. If it were anyone else, I’d give it a pass, but with him at the he..."

I agree with you about Villeneuve, I'm looking forward to his vision of Dune. Should be a good one.

I'd like to see Jodorowsky's documentary on Dune, I remember a few years ago his name was mentioned to direct a new version of "The Wild Bunch", now that would be a hell of a flick.

So after watching the Trailer a few more time, I think that it is a home built trailer, pieced together from other movie scenes. Good, but not something that is going to show you much of anything from the actual movie.

This is probably one of the films I have been most excited about ever. Finally, a big Dune adaptation! Done no less by one of if not the best director working currently. I'm beyond stoked for this film to come out.

edit: Guys, the trailer is obviously fanmade. The Sandworm scenes are from the old David Lynch flick and the Syfy adaptation, and the others are from all over the place (Riddick, Guardians of the Galaxy, Mad Max: Fury Road etc.).

I thought the mini-series was terrible. I couldn't get past the poor acting. If Lynch had bee able to do to Dune what Peter Jackson did to The Hobbit, it might have been excellent. I always thought it needed three parts (up until the Harkonens wipe out Leto, Paul growing up on Arakis, and the war with the Empire)

CBRetriever wrote: "...If Lynch had bee able to do to Dune what Peter Jackson did to The Hobbit..."

You are either a supreme satirist or you live in a different universe than me!

(Hehe. It's all good. To each their own.)

In my head what Chessie meant was that it'd be nice to have a Hollywood quality film split into parts. That's how I choose to read it because I think the hobbits should sue for defamation lol

Here are a few stills of the cast and the still suits!


https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...

Allison wrote: "Here are a few stills of the cast and the still suits!..."

They look so cute. So … is this going to be Dune or Titanic?

Micah wrote: "CBRetriever wrote: "...If Lynch had bee able to do to Dune what Peter Jackson did to The Hobbit..."

You are either a supreme satirist or you live in a different universe than me!

(Hehe. It's all ..."

I meant make Dune as three parts like the Star Wars trilogy.
1 = right up until Paul meets Stilgar
2 = Fremen part up to Paul drinking the water of life
3 = Fight for Arakis and defeat of the Emperor and Baron Harkonen

there's enough in the book to flesh those out. Look at how reduced Gurney, Thufir and the Leto and Jessica back stories were treated

ETA: aha, I see the new movie will be two separate films. Good. I like the casting

Micah wrote: "Allison wrote: "Here are a few stills of the cast and the still suits!..."

They look so cute. So … is this going to be Dune or Titanic?"

Lol. I'm really excited about Oscar Isaac and Lady Liet.

I'm with the bunch who didn't care for Lynch's Dune, but would've loved to have seen the Jodorowsky/Moebius one.

Those new stills do look quite... tame. Indeed, rather 'Hollywood'.

Thank you for posting the early production photos!

Yes, the coloring and design is pretty bland, even the desert seems to be having a cloudy day (could all be changed in post-production if they want to). But the actors are great and I'm optimistic. If they don't focus on settings and costumes, but on getting the story and characters right, that would probably make it a better film duology.

While the tv adaptation was pretty bad, I did enjoy its sequel, Children of Dune. James MacAvoy was great in it.

In terms of the actors being cute: these characters are described as very beautiful / good looking in the novel, which I've just reread and it's still fresh in my mind. And Paul and his wife ARE teenagers in the novel. So I really can't imagine any valid argument against them looking good in the movie, as well. Note that they have not revealed any villain designs yet and Baron Harkonnen is probably not going to look like Brad Pitt.

I remember liking Lynch’s Dune film in that way you can love a weird, trippy cult film, but it could definitely use a brush-up. As one of those who was skeptic about Villeneuve’s Blade Runner but ended up loving it, I’m excited to see his Dune.

Don't really care what else happens, I'm going to go for this one scene if nothing else:

Allison wrote: "Don't really care what else happens, I'm going to go for this one scene if nothing else:"

👌

Oscar Isaac sees you, Allison.

God, that'd be nice, Dawn. haha!

Sorry. We shouldn't objectify people. Oscar, I respect you very much. But if you ever need help combing your hair or whatever, I'd be glad to participate.

I believe Villeneuve can do great things with the material. He doesn’t make bad movies, so I expect DUNE to be great as well. The cast is really incredible (Timothee Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaacs, Josh Brolin, Havier Bardem, Jasón Momoa etc).

In Villeneuve we trust!

Dune is not my fave book but the director and the cast alone give me enough reason to eagerly wait. (view spoiler)[ If they could tone down the concubine thing and the bodyshaming a bit, that'd be good tho. (hide spoiler)]

Allison wrote: "God, that'd be nice, Dawn. haha!

Sorry. We shouldn't objectify people. Oscar, I respect you very much. But if you ever need help combing your hair or whatever, I'd be glad to participate."

Get in line! ;p

Allison wrote: "Don't really care what else happens, I'm going to go for this one scene if nothing else:"

Yessssss......

I really like the casting. Which is nice, because I thought the David Lynch version was horrifically miscast, not a good choice in the bunch. And cool idea, making Liet Kynes a black woman!

Michele wrote: "I really like the casting. Which is nice, because I thought the David Lynch version was horrifically miscast, not a good choice in the bunch. And cool idea, making Liet Kynes a black woman!"

Aside from who they chose for Paul and Feyd-Rautha ("I WILL kill him!") I thought the casting in that film was awesome. I loved who they picked for the Duke and especially the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam. And, come on, Max von Sydow (RIP)? The bomb.

The cast, sets, and costumes were the best part of that film, IMHO.

Personally, I've not really liked any movie by Villeneuve that I've seen. They all seem to have a certain dreary "meh-ness" to them. So I'm … skeptical. (Better to expect less than expect more!)

YMMV

Michele wrote: "I really like the casting. Which is nice, because I thought the David Lynch version was horrifically miscast, not a good choice in the bunch. And cool idea, making Liet Kynes a black woman!"

what was really miscast and totally boring was the miniseries on TV. Most of the actors couldn't act their way out of a wet paper bag and I gave up after two episodes of it.

@Micah: Patrick Stewart was good too but it was one of the parts that wasn't developed enough compared to the book

i didn't mind the mini-series, although Children of Dune was objectively better.

But I also have strange criteria for visual storytelling, and also I haven't watched it since high school, so I don't know what adult-me would think.

Allison wrote: "i didn't mind the mini-series..."

I didn't mind it either. It was closer to the book, but the acting was pretty bad and the production budget wasn't enough to make it very memorable.

CBRetriever wrote: "Micah wrote: "CBRetriever wrote: "...If Lynch had bee able to do to Dune what Peter Jackson did to The Hobbit..."

You are either a supreme satirist or you live in a different universe than me!

(H..."


Dune will make a better trilogy than the Hobbit would. So far from the pictures, I have seen I am impressed with the visual side of it. So I have hope for this one.

OK yes, Max von Sydow. I'd forgotten about him :)

I haven't read the book in a while, but I did like the original movie. The problem with making something like Dune into a film is that the traditional 2-hour movie format requires hacking the material down, which means you inevitably cut out some parts that some fan, somewhere feels is essential to the story. Peter Jackson was fortunate in that he was given a monster budget and allowed to film all three "Lord of the Rings" films at once (not to mention making them 3 hours long), but even then people complained about things that were left out. I suspect it will be the same with Dune, although I've got my fingers crossed that it will still be a good movie.

For me the parts that are cut are never as frustrating as the parts that are added. If you don't have enough time to tell the whole story, why would you spend any time on stuff that isn't canon?? This is part of my problem with adaptations. I'm a purist =P

Allison, yes! That frustrates me to no end, especially when major parts are cut and something completely irrelevant is added.

Allison wrote: "For me the parts that are cut are never as frustrating as the parts that are added. If you don't have enough time to tell the whole story, why would you spend any time on stuff that isn't canon?? T..."

OMG … I was literally just about to say the exact same thing. I've often thought about sitting down and documenting how much time PJ wasted with invented stuff … but then I'd have to watch those crappy films again!

"Peter Jackson" has become my own personal trigger phrase!

… but, uh … Dune, Dune, Dune … where were we?

The original Dune film had a very troubled production. At one point they explored making it a 5+ hour mini-series. That didn't happen but later there was a longer version of it which was somewhat less chopped up.

I remember coming out of the theater after its release thinking "Boy, I'm glad I knew the story already because anyone not familiar with it is gonna be totally confused."

So given all its troubled production I think the worst thing about it in the end is that in the end David Lynch turned his back completely on Herbert's vision of who Paul was. I'd spell that out more but people are awfully spoiler sensitive nowadays. (view spoiler)[Personally, I feel that anything over 15 years old is immune to spoiler alerts. I mean, even if you haven't seen Star Wars you probably still know that Luke was Darth Vader's kid, yeah? It's kind of in the culture already. (hide spoiler)]

Allison wrote: "For me the parts that are cut are never as frustrating as the parts that are added. If you don't have enough time to tell the whole story, why would you spend any time on stuff that isn't canon?? T..."

I know, right?? That always stumped me, too.

Michele wrote: "I know, right?? That always stumped me, too. "

Well some of the new stuff was to fix things they changed for "cinematic" reasons (sarcasm). Like Aragorn's sword not being fixed while the Fellowship was in Rivendell. In the book Aragorn had the broken sword all along, and it was fixed while they were there. Boom! Issue solved. But in the movie, because they didn't have the sword fixed in Rivendell (because they needed a new way to beef up Arwen's story), they had Arwen convince Elrond to fix it after the Fellowship had already left … THEN they had to invent a way for the sword to travel all the way down to Helms Deep or wherever to deliver it … I mean it's like lies. You invent something and then have to invent 10x more to back up the first invention.

Micah wrote: "I mean it's like lies. You invent something and then have to invent 10x more to back up the first invention."

Ha, so true...

I’ve heard that they’re getting Hans Zimmer to do the music for this remake of Dune. He did Interstellar, Inception, Gladiator, Pirates of the Caribbean, Christopher Nolan’s Batman, and dozens of other amazing soundtracks so this makes me really excited for what he can do for this film.