Austenesque Lovers TBR Challenge 2020 discussion

Elizabeth with red hair, yay or nay?
(I have a plot bunny making havoc in my brain with Elizabeth as redheaded highland beauty and I am interested in your opinion on the red hair.)

I remember thinking that the Elizabeth from the BBC version with Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul had a fair amount of red in her hair. I'm always interested in a new take on ODC.

I have seen lots of JAFF describing Elizabeth's hair as "chestnut" which is a reddish, coppery brown. A true redhead? I'm not opposed to it but it's not the picture I usually have of Elizabeth

Honestly, that would probably throw me. If it was just a mention or not a major plot point I would gloss over it and move on (but in my head I'd still have her as brunette Highland beauty), but if her red hair was a focus, I think it would be a major distraction for me. But then again I'm also a fuddy-duddy about the names of secondary characters, so don't put too much stock in my weird hangups. :)

I don’t think it would bother me although she’s always been brunette in my head. My turn offs are evil Georgiana, evil Col. F, or evil Jane.

Yes!!!! Hmmm...Demelza or Bonnie Wright...

Susan wrote: "I don’t think it would bother me although she’s always been brunette in my head. My turn offs are evil Georgiana, evil Col. F, or evil Jane."

I'm amused by evil Jane but evil Georgiana is never acceptable!!!!

Thank you all for your insightful thoughts. I has forgot E. Galvia.
I asked the same question on FB and there were many nays to this twist. Unfortunately, it did not deter me as I had hoped. (I have a few other projects I had hoped to finish first but that is not going to happen.)
Elizabeth is a redhead because I needed it for the insult. I made it a trick of light so that she really is auburn but the insult does not go unanswered.
I thought it would be fun to explore the what-if the Bingleys were really the Bennets neighbours and it turned into the MacBingleys versus the MacBennets... It is set in the regency era and will move from the Highlands to London and eventually Pemberley. Better yet, Darcy is not a jerk in this one (apart from the insult). Yay, I need to prove to myself that I can write a story that put Darcy in a good light and hopefully add more romance than I usually can muster up...

Elin wrote: "Elizabeth with red hair, yay or nay?
(I have a plot bunny making havoc in my brain with Elizabeth as redheaded highland beauty and I am interested in your opinion on the red hair.)"

I kind of like the idea of her as a redhead. I had always seen her as a brunette, probably because of the films.

As Dana mentioned, Elizabeth Garvie in the 1980's version had red tones in her hair.
I cannot recall her hair colour being mentioned in canon though, besides from dark... I need to reread it to check.

I'm about half way through a reread. It does mention her eyes as being dark, but so far nothing on her hair.

If you retreat to the 1940 P&P, Greer Garson was a redhead -- maybe red-blonde. The film is black and white so her red hair doesn't really show.

The bad thing about her casting was: she was born in 1904; the film was in 1940. I haven't watched it for a long time. Did she have to confess to Lady C that she was not yet one and twenty? She would definitely be on the shelf!

Just checked: Olivier was born in 1907 so he was a bit of a stretch for a 28-year-old too.

When it comes to casting actors in dramatisations, they've almost always gone older than the text. Keira Knightley (P&P 2005) is the nearest in age for Elizabeth as she was around 20 at the time. Martin Henderson from Bride and Prejudice is the nearest I can find for Darcy. He was about 30.

I seem to remember that Sophie Andrews of Laughing with Lizzie did a blog post on this very subject several years ago.

As to hair colour, I don't remember any mention in canon at all for any of the characters. Elizabeth has dark eyes (as mentioned in a rare Darcy POV) but I think the conventions adopted in Austenesque fiction of dark Elizabeth and Darcy, fair Jane and Georgiana and reddish-blonde Bingley have come mainly from the 1995 series, with a bit of the 2005 film thrown in. Elizabeth Garvie in 1980 had quite fairish hair and it was Jane who was the brunette. As Rose says, Greer Garson was a redhead but it only shows up as being lightish in the black and white film of 1940.

So Elin, go with what you feel is right for your character. This picky Brit won't object to that, as it doesn't violate canon for me!

Anji wrote: "When it comes to casting actors in dramatisations, they've almost always gone older than the text. Keira Knightley (P&P 2005) is the nearest in age for Elizabeth as she was around 20 at the time. M..."

Rant warning: As I often write, judge the performance not the age!!! I know many Austen fans (several in my two regular Austen bookclubs) complain about age. What 19yr can play Elinor as well as Emma Thompson or Hattie Morahan???? 0.0! Marianne at 17? 0.0! Plus, authors Sterns and Kaye-Smith wrote in 1944 that you have to add 7yrs(minimum) to get from ages in Austen's time to their time. I say add another 2-3 yrs from 1944 to now. That gets most actresses within the time frame. Of course, Emma Thompson is still an outlier (she didn't want to play the role, Ang Lee rightly insisted on it!!). Yet her performance is so good that *ageist" non-sense shouldn't be heard!!

Kirk, sorry if what I said came across as criticising the casting of actors who are mostly older than the characters in canon. Honestly, I wasn't! After all, if it hadn't been for Laurence Olivier, I might never have fallen in love with Fitzwilliam Darcy when I was 11 and found the works of Jane Austen as a consequence. Emma Thompson's performance as Elinor Dashwood was absolutely brilliant and Keira Knightley is one of my least favourite Elizabeths.

What you say about "ageing-up" is so right. Things happened at a far earlier age back then than they do now. Admittedly, even for the 90s, I was old (at 37) when my one and only child was born, but many women can choose to wait that long to have their families nowadays. Two hundred years ago, you could be 20 and already have more than one child if you'd gone down Lydia's route and married at 16. Continual pregnancies and childbirth would not only be hazardous to a woman's life (as in Jane Austen's own family) but, assuming she survived until her menopause, she'd look an awful lot older than today's woman of a similar age.

Anji wrote: "Kirk, sorry if what I said came across as criticising the casting of actors who are mostly older than the characters in canon. Honestly, I wasn't! After all, if it hadn't been for Laurence Olivier,..."
:) and I apologize if I was too Marianne/John Knightley!!! This very morning a JAFF made the Emma Thompson comment...grrrr! And the person you mentioned drew up that list after she interjected herself into a "spirited" conversation about the topic. That was prior to me reading the 1944 comment from "Speaking of Jane Austen".

Yes...I suspect an older Keira Knightley won't have been so "strident" Elizabeth(perhaps Director Joe Wright is to blame). The past is a nice to visit at times but I'm not sure I could live there. Yikes!

Thank you, Anji!

I realised long before I posted any of my stories that my scribblings would not necessarily appeal to the general JAFF reader... It put me off sharing for a couple of years.
I will just have to put up a warning in the description that Elizabeth has red hair.

Elin wrote: "Thank you, Anji!

I realised long before I posted any of my stories that my scribblings would not necessarily appeal to the general JAFF reader... It put me off sharing for a couple of years.
I wil..."

Hello, Elin. What EB and FD look like is the least important aspects to me. I admit to struggling a bit with a few stories where EB was described (repeatedly) as blond-haired and blue-eyed, but it is easy enough to ignore.
As for a red-haired Lizzy, it's all good - especially if there is a reasonable explanation. I, too, am planning a red/auburn Lizzy in one with Scottish tie-ins.
Godspeed!
Momtoten/Cherith Boardman

I agree. I don!t like it when the characters' personalities are changed, but physical appearance doesn't faze me.

It’s been a while since I read P&P. Does Lydia mention Mary King having red hair when disapproving of her for Wickham or was that just in one of the movies?

If it is in the book, that would be my only hang up about Lizzy having red hair. However, it sounds like your story would be a reimagining with a different plot anyway making it a mute point.

The only description I find from Lydia is "nasty freckled little thing"

I searched my book of all JA's works -- short stories, unfinished, etc. It also includes Jane Eyre and the only response to "red hair" was in Jane Eyre when Mr. Brocklehurst punishes the girl whose hair curls naturally.

...and since redheads often have lots of freckles, I think many readers make the assumption that Mary King does, indeed, have red hair.

Ah just realizing a typo in my post! (Hate that). I meant that the change in plot would make the hair color a mute point. Hope that makes sense!

Elizabeth has freckles too...
Mary King does not appear though, neither does Meryton. I have moved the Bennet clan to the Loch Tay area in the Scottish Highland, with the blond Bingley clan. Caroline and Louisa are Campbell and Lochlan.
Oh my, I need more warnings, don't I. Like off, off, off canon story with a red-haired and freckled Elizabeth. No Meryton, gender swap on a couple of Bingleys with slightly younger D&E.

Sounds like it's maybe more "inspired by" than "variation"? Fine by me, especially when it is not of the period. I like stories that are true to the themes and characters but have wildly different settings.

Sounds interesting Elin.

Chelsea wrote: "Sounds interesting Elin."

I agree!

Thank you, Chelsea and Anji, I am having a lot of fun writing it.
Abigail, I have taken your advice and will call it inspired by rather than variation.
The story is set in the Regency era though. I contemplated making it a medieval story but that will have to be a different story. Perhaps a lowland Lizzy against a Highland Darcy? (Oh no, I really do NOT need another plot bunny at this moment, groan)
Cherith: how exciting! I didn't realize until know that Momtoten was you. I will happily read anything you put out there. Second Son is a favourite of mine.

Elin wrote: "Thank you, Chelsea and Anji, I am having a lot of fun writing it.
Abigail, I have taken your advice and will call it inspired by rather than variation.
The story is set in the Regency era though. ..."

That's good to hear, Elin. If you put Darcy in a kilt, expect to find Jeanne chasing him down!

If you choose to hunt down that plot bunny, please check out the history of kilt-wearing amongst men in Scotland. I've seen a lot, and I mean an awful lot of book covers and blurbs that appear to imply that Scottish men have never worn anything else! Here's a site that seems fairly reputable:

https://www.lochcarron.co.uk/blog/the...

That was a delightful kilt article Anji. And yes, I'm getting my running shoes out of summer storage. [gleefully rubbing hands together] I'll be ready to chase down a kilted Darcy. Heavy sigh!! Whew! I may need my salts.

To all the kind folk in this group who included us in their thoughts and prayers over the past week, thank you. My sweetie passed gently this evening, without pain or fear. I am forever grateful to you all.

My deepest sympathies to you, Abigail. I'm glad your sweetheart was at peace. I continue to pray the same for you as you mourn your loss.

Oh, Abigail, our hearts and prayers go out to you. What a blessing that your sweetheart was at peace and not in pain. Our condolences, my dear. We are sending you a cyber hug and will continue to lift you up in prayer. Be strong, my lady. You have the high ground.

Abigail, so sorry to hear of your loss. Hugs and Prayers

Abigail wrote: "To all the kind folk in this group who included us in their thoughts and prayers over the past week, thank you. My sweetie passed gently this evening, without pain or fear. I am forever grateful to..."
Sorry to read that. Best wishes to you at this difficult time.

Oh Abigail, my heart goes out to you my dear. Lots of virtual hugs are winging their way across the pond to you.

I am so sorry for your loss Abigail, I will keep you in my prayers and send you warm thoughts.

Thank you everyone! It was such a gift to have this space to dive into the Austenesque and the trivial as respite from the hospital, and see your smiling words.

Sympathies for your loss. I am glad his passing was peaceful. Keeping you in my prayers.

Abigail-my sincere condolences on the death of your sweetheart.

Thank you, my dears! I realized belatedly that I posted in the wrong thread--my brain was a bit scrambled.

Honestly I have read several of your fanfics that I didn’t think I would get into and did. So adding red or changing Lizzies hair to red isn’t going to bother me. Can’t wait to read it!!

Abigail wrote: "Thank you, my dears! I realized belatedly that I posted in the wrong thread--my brain was a bit scrambled."

Just spotted your post. Add my virtual hug and condolences for his passing and prayer of comfort for your grief, Abigail.

Thank you, Sophia! This group was such a saving grace for me over the past few weeks.

1940 Pride and Prejudice movie with Greer Garson. She was to old to be Lizzy but wasn’t her bubbly personality just the way you pictured Lizzy? I enjoyed the movie a lot when I was a young whipper snapper.

Kirk wrote: "Of course, Emma Thompson is still an outlier (she didn't want to play the role, Ang Lee rightly insisted on it!!). Yet her performance is so good that *ageist" non-sense shouldn't be heard!!"

How interesting that she didn't want the role!!!!

Abigail wrote: "To all the kind folk in this group who included us in their thoughts and prayers over the past week, thank you. My sweetie passed gently this evening, without pain or fear. I am forever grateful to..."


Agigail, thank you for telling us. I hope that you are doing as well as can be. I'll say a prayer for your spirits right now.

Marlene wrote: "Kirk wrote: "Of course, Emma Thompson is still an outlier (she didn't want to play the role, Ang Lee rightly insisted on it!!). Yet her performance is so good that *ageist" non-sense shouldn't be h..."
Yes indeed!!!

Thanks, Marlene! It has been a pretty awful year, but that’s true for just about everyone. I miss him but am slowly moving toward remembering the way he was before dementia, something I had lost track of during the caregiving years.