Feminist Science Fiction Fans discussion

January is fast approaching (Where did November go??) and we have to get some books on the to-read pile! I'd love it if we could somehow get 5 or 6 lined up. How does everyone feel about nominating in this thread, and also picking the books here rather than using the poll?

I think it might be nice to read some more compilations as a way to 'meet' new authors, there is the Women of Wonder Series by Pamela Sargent:



Suzy McKee Charnas also has a pretty intense dystopian series that fits the bill:



And of course some "classics" that we haven't covered yet

Also, I'm going to propose something radical. It was brought up recently that maybe we should include fantasy in the group as well... is that something that appeals to members?

For your consideration under the fantasy option, I was pretty obsessed with this trilogy and I'd love to see what other people think:

If you do make a poll, I missed the last one. I've noticed some groups announce them with a message to members.
It doesn't matter that I missed the poll since I chose not to vote in the one before that anyway. I haven't finished an actual book (as opposed to shorts and comics) in months. Apologies for not participating.

As far as fantasy is concerned, I've said it here before but I think Dreamblood #2 (by Jemisin) would be appropriate for this group considering its mission statement. Also, I keep thinking Dreamblood is underrated.
She was on WBAI a few days ago by the way and Jim Freund summed up rather well why I much prefer stuff like that to what typically gets called fantasy nowadays. I expect there's at least one fan of her trilogy who's going to read this so PSA: she did a related reading and you can download the shows for some time after they air.

I really like the idea of some more Women of Wonder books. I read two of the Suzy McKee Charnas books and absolutely HATED them, so if you choose those I won't go anywhere near them! A good sprinkling of classics mixed in with some more recent works really appeals to me. I'm also quite open to mixing in some fantasy and I would strongly second anything by Jemisin! I would also like to suggest picking up some of the sequels to what we've already read, I'm thinking particularly of The Children Star, Regenesis, and Ancillary Sword. I also think it would be fun to do a whole series at a time.

Ancillary Sword! Yes please!
I can see why the holdfast books may be unappealing to some, they are pretty heavy handed and shocking for the sake of shocking... I liked them but at times they were hard to read. More Women of Wonder would be great!

Sorry you missed the last poll Outis, I'm not sure what happened there! The polls seem like a fun way to make selections but I'm starting to tire of setting them all up then having only a ridiculously small number of people actually vote on them (mostly this happens in other groups, 1300 members and only 7 voters! Sigh) so I think having the selections happen within the thread is worth a try.

So Women of Wonder, some fantasy in the form of Jemisin, and Ancillary Sword are possibilities! Any other nominations or seconds?

Something you could perhaps do about polls is to set up a permanent one, let votes add up over time and pick up the leaders when they reach enough votes.
But maybe a Goodreads list would be better than a permanent poll for that purpose since you wouldn't have to add the entries yourself. Even if the decisions about group reads aren't made by popular vote, it would be helpful to have some way for the popular suggestions to rise to the top I think.

I don't understand the appeal of the Women of Wonder books. I'm probably missing something (library availability?) but they seem like something which has lost its relevance.
As I mentionned in another thread, if you want to read short genre fiction written by women, nowadays you can simply read general-purpose publications (which often have the benefit of freely available worldwide).
And I'd generally be be more interested in reading newish shorts by writers such as deBodard than old stuff... unless the old stuff be written by geniuses like UKL of course! But maybe you're interested in genre history?
In any case, I'd much rather commit to reading shorts than series right now so I have no problem checking out more stuff out of Sargent anthologies (or more UKL collections for that matter).

And for what that's worth, I officially re-nominate the short fiction I've already nominated.

Yes, regarding fantasy. I loved the Holdfast chronicles! I second Ancillary Sword and Jemisin. I'd like to suggest We Who Are About To... and The Maerlande Chronicles.

I've read the 1st Women of Wonder, so any of the rest would be fine. I'm reading a fantasy series with a female protaganist right now(The Mistborn Trilogy by Brandon Sanderson). It's pretty good, but I don't think I want to read anymore fantasy for a while. I really want to read Ancillary Sword, so my 1st vote is for that. I've already read Motherlines and liked it very much, so McKee Charnas is ok with me. Haven't read Herland or Butler yet, so those would be ok. Please suggest Hellspark by Janet Kagen, one of my all time favorites.

I would receive the excuse to read Ancillary Sword with a smile as well. It's on my TBR list, so I'll get to it someday. I leave it to you good folks to determine when I pick it up. I've got a pile of classics to wade through in my leisure time.

There are also a ton of great books suggested in earlier polls that we might want to re-visit.

Station Eleven!

Thanks for all the nominations! How does this look:

January: Ancillary Sword
February: Four Ways to Forgiveness
March: Women of Wonder, the Contemporary Years: Science Fiction by Women from the 1970s to the 1990s
April: The Shadowed Sun
May: Ammonite
June: The Maerlande Chronicles

I looked back through our previous noms and Ammonite has been mentioned a few times, and seeing as we haven't read any Nicola Griffith in the group yet it seems like a good fit.

What do we think of these selections? Change the order? Delete any? Add any?

I would love to read Jemisin, but The Shadowed Sun is the second of her second series - I would much rather start with The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms.

Also the Maerlande Chronicles seems to be a sequel as well. I'm all for reading sequels, but I'd prefer to read the first one first.

That list looks good. Did you pick the second book in the series on purpose because that book sounds like a better read (for Maeland chronicles and The Shadowed Sun) or because they were suggested?

As far as The Shadows Sun is concerned, I suggested it because it is a match for the group's mission statement in a way Jemisin's other books (and specifically Dreamblood #1) aren't.
People sometimes write that The Shadows Sun can be read as a standalone because the plot and main characters are markedly different than those of #1 but while I agree #2 is a standalone story and could be read as such, I would not recommend you to start with #2 if you ultimately intend to read #1 as well or if you're into worldbuilding (it's mostly setting-wise that these two books are a series).

Previously #2 in series have been selected as group reads here so I thought people were expected to make a decision for themselves on whether to read the other books first.
Stephanie's proposal implies that there would be two months in a row without group novel before Dreamblood #2, perhaps so that people might be able to do just that. Or maybe that was random?

@Alexa: nitpick but my understanding is that it's the second series she sold but that she wrote The Killing Moon before The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms.
And in case you care, it's not (currently) an ongoing series: her upcoming book isn't part of either series.

Outis wrote: "Stephanie's proposal implies that there would be two months in a row without group novel before Dreamblood #2..."

I'm not seeing that? I see Jan through June?

"nitpick but my understanding is that it's the second series she sold but that she wrote The Killing Moon before The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms..." Oh! That's not a nitpick; that makes all the difference to me - now I'll gladly read it first (but I would still want to read #1 first).

Since you care, I Googled it (because [citation needed]) and sure, it's a tad more complicated than I remembered. She wrote "I consider The Killing Moon and The Shadowed Sun to be my first novels" but here's the actual timeline:
-first "crap" version of The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms written by a young Jemisin (one of a "dozen" of early "unpublishable" works)
-The Killing Moon written, gets Jemisin her current agent but not the sale she wanted
-The Shadowed Sun written
-The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms rewritten "from scratch", finally allows Jemisin to sell out to an evil transnational corporation

In Stephanie's proposal, February and March are short fiction months.
Even if you haven't read these UKL stories and want to read them all, it's not a large book (like 80K words) and in any case you've already read some of stories in the Sargent anthology.

I did notice that a couple of them were sequels, but went with what was suggested and made them later in the list so we could read the earlier books in the series first if we wanted. It's up to you guys! I went with what was nominated, but we could def do the series from the start of its preferred :)

That would be fully TWICE the attention devoted to Dreamblood so I wouldn't make a scene over #1 not being feminist enough.
One could even make a specious argument for it being SF.

Oh, now I see what you mean. And thanks for the timeline! Still, I like Stephanie's proposal of including the two missing #1's first.

So I would say let's change it to:
January: Ancillary Sword
February: Four Ways to Forgiveness
March: Women of Wonder, the Contemporary Years: Science Fiction by Women from the 1970s to the 1990s
April: The Killing Moon
May: The Shadowed Sun
June: Ammonite
July: The Silent City
August: The Maerlande Chronicles (which appears to be the same book as In the Mother's Land)

That all looks good to me Alexa!! I'm excited to read some authors I haven't heard of. :)))

Does this sound like a good plan to everyone?

Can anyone vouch for both that Vonarburg series AND its translation? I don't suppose many here would read it in French. It seems that this translation has been particularly challenging on account of English being inadequately gendered.
And while Leckie, Jemisin and Griffith have all been read by quite a few group members, Vonarburg is much more obscure.
Maybe someone could volunteer to check out the books ahead of the group (there's plenty of time before July)...

She's not available in my local library....

Outis wrote: "Can anyone vouch for both that Vonarburg series AND its translation? I don't suppose many here would read it in French. It seems that this translation has been particularly challenging on account o..."

Well, I could read them in French, but I have the English editions. Apparently you just have to think all words that should be masculine in French would be feminine, which is not that hard ;-). Jo Walton, who has reviewed the second book in the series, has a good impression of the translation: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2009/07/hist...

Evidently you're less particular about translations than some of us. The author claims the translator had to work a bit harder than that (check her website).

People such as Walton like entierly too many books. I'd sooner trust your opinion... and since you have both books in English, you could at least vouch for the translation being agreeable. I wouldn't read them in English anyway but others might be interested in what you thought of it.
And I'd of course be interested in your opinion with regard to plot, ideology and so forth.

Actually I am quite particular with translations which is why I read a lot of books in English and/or French and not Portuguese which is my primary language. When it comes to gendered languages such as French there will always be problems with English and translations and those problems go both ways. That is the reason I don't expect books such as [i]Ancillary Justice[/i] to be translated to French and/or Portuguese because it would be impossible. Also, I don't expect the majority of people on Goodreads to be French readers, and that is why I suggested the English version. And of course, anyone, such as you, that is a French reader can read the books in the original version. Anyway, thanks for trusting my opinion on the translation. However, I don't expect to start reading the books soon, because I have other books on top of my to read pile.

Surely Ancilliary Justice will be translated in French. The rights have been sold.
Left Hand (the king is pregnant) was of course translated way back.