The Importance of Reading Ernest discussion

Is he just dreaming of glamor? OR does he have other motivations? Start...............now.

Has anyone read the story?

I have read the story, you bet!! do you mean glamour? other motivations, what to be the most important, by offing the competition?is that what you mean?

Okay, are his motivations fantasy based? Or reality?

He is dreaming. Dreaming of becoming a bullfighter. Not based on reality since bullfighters start young.

i think it's fantasy based. i think hemingway had a fantasy of being a bullfighter,and lived it vicariously through the fights and matadors he watched.

I agree, his desire to be a matador is misplaced.

Who, in Hemingway's mind, and Paco's, are these three live-in matadors?

ok, stephen, elaborate on that last question.... huh??

i also think hemingway had the hots for the matadors. i mean, the tight pants, wheeeeee!!! lol!

Gary, back that up with text please? I mean, what makes you think that?

Stephen wrote: "Who, in Hemingway's mind, and Paco's, are these three live-in matadors?"

Gary wrote: "ok, stephen, elaborate on that last question.... huh??

answer my question first, the one above.....,and then back up what, that papa had the hots for them? or the tight pants? lol!

i would have to reread the story, which you're gonna make me do, aren't you?

and actually i was referring to ernie going to all the bullfights,and writing so much about it,and isn't death in the afternoon considered his "homofilled "book of references to his sexuality? that's what i was referring to...... not so much what i see in the story, at least, not unless i read it again,and really dig. so..... keep this discussion going.... tell me more what you're thinking???

i think his desire to be a matador, was him really getting close to the men,and talking to them in the ring, and using his celebrity status to meet whom he wanted,and i think it was part of a sexual thing, to be close to the matadors. see them up close, join them in "the locker room",and see what he could see,and admire.

True, I agree. I don't think those are Paco's motivations, and the somewhat degraded matadors who live in the hotel...hardly erotic. It almost seems like the present day cult of celebrity.

YES, it does. and hemingway was part of that cult of celebrity, with all the different hollywood, men and women he hung with. i mean he picked gary cooper to play parts,and they drank together in cuba in a bar,and ava gardner swam naked in his pool..... lauren bacall had lunch with him...... he certainly used his status to hang with the elite.

Do you feel that is part of what drives Paco?

do you mean celebrity driving paco???? or homosexuality?

Either. Hate to be vague, but I'm the discussion leader, not the answerer. L O L

Is anyone else out there besides Gary, Jotrys, et moi?

i thought brad was the discussion leader/??????

shit, i need to get upstairs,and read it again. then i check my email, and i see there's a comment from you, so of course,i have to look at it. here i go.........

Brad asked me to fill in for him for a few days. Family issues out of town.

is everything ok??? i hope so! brad is such a great guy!

ok, i read it again. i think it is both. i think paco wanted to be around the celebrity,and also around men, which i think hemingway wanted as well. i think this story further proves that point. paco wanted to have the glory of the fight, only with a chair,and knives,and that didn't turn out quite so well for him, now did it??

i mean why else would he do that with enrique, unless he wanted to prove to enrique that he was tough? enrique was basically calling him a pussy,and a sissy, and then when paco agreed to do it, then enrique felt remorse, tried to talk him out of it, but paco was already riled up due to the taunting.

No, lol, not at all.

we all know hemingway was the hunter, the boxer, etc. to prove how masculine,and tough he was. i think that is reflected in this story.

Hemingway percieved as the hunter, the boxer, etc was the public persona he created. In reality he was a shy and bookish.

yes, i already knew that, but he worked very hard to make that his public persona of what it was, including the themes in his stories,and novels.