The Old Curiosity Club discussion

This is to announce that from 20/02 to 26/02 we are going to read To Be Read at Dusk as one of two short stories before we are going to start with Dombey and Son.

Downloaded ready, thank you! (And thank you for writing the date just as Charles Dickens himself would ;) )

Hmmmm, is there any other way you can represent dates, Jean? ;-)

Now I wonder whether Dickens could have answered that question. After all, he made several trips to the alien civilisation which seems to do so (which is more than I have!) ... ;)

I didn't even know this short story. Looking forward to it already :-)

Would this be found in my Oxford Illustrated Dickens set and if so where? If not, I see that I can get it on Kindle.

Do we actually have to read it at dusk?

This story can be found on-line at: https://www.dickens-online.info/to-be... and a narration here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lJ0s...

Jean, You couldn't possibly be referring to America regarding the writing of the date, could you?? Dickens' visit to America in 1842, to put it mildly, was a disappointment to him as he came away with the thought that Americans were "overbearing, vulgar, boastful, uncivil, and acquisitive." (BBC News, 14 February 2012); but apparently no comments about the way Americans wrote the date! LOL. His "Quarrel With America" seemed to end with his next trip to America in 1867-1868.

Mary Lou, Dusk is a great time to read this story when the multicolored, paint-like qualities of light produce an other-worldly tone that accompanies this story! LOL :-)

Mary Lou wrote: "Do we actually have to read it at dusk?"

Actually, I did suggest it with a view of early dusk in February :-)

Dusk it is! But if I'm limiting myself to twilight reading, it better be a very short story!

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "Jean, You couldn't possibly be referring to America regarding the writing of the date, could you?..."

Ah, you've rumbled me! Yes Charles Dickens certainly did have a love-hate relationship with the States. Look at how he felt in American Notes For General Circulation. And I reckon he probably regretted some of the overblown characters he created in Martin Chuzzlewit, in later life.

On the other hand though, as you know, he never lost his fury about the lack of protection over copyright there, and those who thieved and illicitly published his work :( He mentioned the piracy issue in more than one Preface to his novels.

He was such a mixture, and it comes through in all his works - including the next novel the Curiosities are scheduled to read. He loved progress, and the prospects he could see with the Industrial Revolution (railways, for instance) but also loved Tradition, with a capital "t".

As for whether he mentioned the odd way Americans have of recording the dates, well, he would surely never have been so impolite - unless he was asked directly ;)

Mary Lou - I think we are allowed candles ... ;)

Go to discussions, letters of Charles Dickens, look down through them and read the dates. Smart man.

Kim wrote: "Go to discussions, letters of Charles Dickens, look down through them and read the dates. Smart man."

I don't think we've had a discussion about his letters have we? All I can find is your thread "Letters, writings, quotes, etc. ABOUT Charles Dickens".

I'd be happy to have a final answer though - I've only ever read extracts from his letters, and assume he always topped them the British way :)

American Notes is one of my all time favorites. The storm tossed and seasick winter journey out was a brilliant combination of hilarity and horror.

The overall book and visit had all the grand ups and downs of any novel I have read, giving early confirmation that truth can be stranger than fiction.

Kim wrote: "Go to discussions, letters of Charles Dickens, look down through them and read the dates. Smart man."

It looks like Dickens dated his letters in various ways based on his letters that Kim cites in the group discussions:

1) Nineteenth August 1841
2)July The Twenty First 1841
3)23rd. December 1850

Funny how we can caught up in such details! :-)

Thanks for the reference to American Notes For General Circulation, Jean and John. Just downloaded an illustrated edition to Kindle and look forward to reading it. I haven't read Martin Chuzzlewit, but it is on my TBR.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Kim wrote: "Go to discussions, letters of Charles Dickens, look down through them and read the dates. Smart man."

I don't think we've had a discussion about his letters have we? All I can find is ..."

You have to expand the general discussions, it's in there somewhere.

Is my message #15 about the dating what you are talking about, Kim? If so, then, Jean, you can type in the search box to the right of the comment box and type in Charles Dickens' letters, click search and then scan down until you come to the first letter written by Dickens - I found 3 letters with three ways he dated his letters.

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "Is my message #15 about the dating what you are talking about, Kim? If so, then, Jean, you can type in the search box to the right of the comment box and type in Charles Dickens' letters, click sea..."

Yes, that's it, but to prove to these backward people what the right way to date things is, just concentrate on the month, day, year ones. :-)

I just realized I've never noticed that search box before, thanks, it could come in handy!

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "Kim wrote: "Go to discussions, letters of Charles Dickens, look down through them and read the dates. Smart man."

It looks like Dickens dated his letters in various ways based on his letters that ..."

I'll have to experiment to try to find that thread a bit later - thanks both!

Just to confirm that:
1) Nineteenth August 1841
2) July The Twenty First 1841
3) 23rd. December 1850

are all correct English ways of recording the date :)

19th August 1841, or 19-08-1841
July 21st 1841, or 21-07-1841
23rd December 1850, or 23-12-1850

We can switch if about when we write it in full, but not in "shorthand". I only ever use the short way when a form or computer forces me to. Perhaps Dickens never did?! I doubt very much whether he'd have put those zeros in front of the months when necessary - only machines need those.

And now we are told we have to write 2020 in full and not just 20, in case of fraud :(

John wrote: "American Notes is one of my all time favorites. The storm tossed and seasick winter journey out was a brilliant combination of hilarity and horror ..."

I'm glad you came in here John. I had you in mind when I posted that :) I well remember your enthusiasm, when you were reading it, and your request that we add it in to the schedule.

Mods, I know we've talked of "side reads", by different authors etc., (probably when Everyman was still with us) but I for one would very much like to include more Dickens :) I particularly enjoy the shorts between novels.

In my Centennial Edition (Heron books) of the Complete Dickens, there are several volumes dedicated to "Miscellaneous Writings", and those are apart from American Notes For General Circulation, Master Humphrey's Clock etc., which combined take up a whole volume. There are all the articles he published in his various magazines, for instance. Most are available on kindle or the like.

Maybe you could chat about it? They wouldn't need long introductions either. And for those of us who cannot always commit to a long novel (sorry! I kept being hospitalised this last year) but still crave our fix of Dickens, they would be ideal :)

Or is there another place I should put this? Sorry if so ... Please feel free to copy it to the right place, and then I'll edit that bit out.

Well I've had another search using the search facility, and still can't find what you mean. I had thought there must be a whole folder or thread, but our comments don't seem to show one. Maybe someone could link to it?

Anyway, nobody will convince me that "month, day, year" by number only isn't illogical. Why jump around like this? Why start in the middle, go back and be specific, and then jump ahead? Wherever do you put the day of the week, if you include it? Does "Monday", or "Thursday" come in the middle of all this?

"Year, month, day" (biggest to smallest) or "day, month, year", (smallest to biggest) I could just about get my head around, but dotting around seems to me a nonsense. I can never remember which way the American form goes! Isn't it far clearer to write it out, as Dickens did?

A memory ... Aeons ago, when I was a teacher and wrote the date on the board, I used to get very cross with children who "shortened it" :D It was never for speed so that they could write other things. Usually it was because they were lazy ... or couldn't remember how to spell "February" LOL

Today is Monday, 27th January 2020, or Monday 27-01-2020. How would Americans write it, to include the day of the week? (This is a genuine question!)

I would write it as:

Monday January 27th, 2020.

Oh, actually we could do that too! Now I'm completely flummoxed :( Are the English more versatile? Would Americans ever write "Monday 27th January 2020"?

I work at genealogy and I think they give us choices of format on my Family Tree Maker program. I have chosen 27 January 2020 even though I am American. But I only use that for my genealogy. Because of this I have no problem understanding either format.

And yes, Jean, I would write that on occasion.

That is interesting Bobbie :)As long as we have words, I'm fine with either too.

I've just realised how I get round making a timetable with international friends. I write the month in words and then list the dates in numbers.

January:
7th
14th
21st
28th

and so on.

Yes, that does definitely make it easier.

If you go back many generations, do you find there is a consensus about how to record the date?

Bionic Jean wrote: "Aeons ago, when I was a teacher and wrote the date on the board, I used to get very cross with children who "shortened it" :D"

I usually get cross when I see students underline something with a ruler or a set square instead of just drawing a free-hand line. I call this "wasting the teacher's valuable time" :-)

It does seem a similar delaying tactic ...

Bobbie wrote: "Would this be found in my Oxford Illustrated Dickens set and if so where? If not, I see that I can get it on Kindle."

Hi Bobbie! I recently discovered this story CAN be found in the Oxford Illusrated Dickens hardcovers. It is in "The Uncommercial Traveller and Reprinted Pieces" on page 621.
I do believe it can also be downloaded for free on Kindle.

Thanks so much, Cheryl.

Hello Everyone!

Since we have already started discussing MC as a whole and since we moderators thought that too long a break between MC and the next read would be in no one's interests really, we thought that we might accelerate things and start reading the short stories a bit earlier, thus starting earlier with DS. This would be our new reading schedule, and we hope we are acting in your interests as well:

Reading Schedule

13/02 – 19/02 To Be Read at Dusk
20/02 – 26/02 The Signalman

27/02 – 04/03 DS I, 1-4
05/03 – 11/03 DS II, 5-7
12/03 – 18/03 DS III, 8-10
19/03 – 25/03 DS IV, 11-13
26/03 – 01/04 DS V, 14-16
02/04 – 08/04 DS VI, 17-19
09/04 – 15/04 DS VII, 20-22
16/04 – 22/04 DS VIII, 23-25
23/04 – 29/04 DS IX, 26-28
30/04 – 06/05 DS X, 29-31
07/05 – 13/05 DS XI, 32-34
14/05 – 20/05 DS XII, 35-38
21/05 – 27/05 DS XIII, 39-41
28/05 – 03/06 DS XIV, 42-45
04/06 – 10/06 DS XV, 46-48
11/06 – 17/06 DS XVI, 49-51
18/06 – 24/06 DS XVII, 52-54
25/06 – 01/07 DS XVIII, 55-57
02/07 – 08/07 DS XIX, 58-60
09/07 – 15/07 DS XX, 61-62

I enjoy the short story reads, and have noted your change of plan to tomorrow. Hopefully I can still give time to this.

Jean,

I also hope that you can join us because I'd miss your comments a lot. On the whole, we are not a very fast-reading bunch and so I'm quite confident that you will find time to join our discussions :-)

Yes, I may be a little late to the party ... but on the other hand this now seems to be running concurrently with both the final chapters of Martin Chuzzlewit and the "Thoughts About the Novel as a Whole", which seems to have been incorporated this time rather than being a discrete discussion. You speedsters, you ;)

And thanks.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, I may be a little late to the party ... but on the other hand this now seems to be running concurrently with both the final chapters of Martin Chuzzlewit and the "Thoughts About th..."

Hi Bionic Jean

Well, perhaps not so much speedsters as me making a mistake. It wasn’t the first and I can guarantee it won’t be the last.

Sorry about that.

I am a little backed up on my reading right now. I will not be able to get to the two stories, but I am ready to start Dombey and Son at the end of this month. I purchased a Nook edition of Dombey and Son that includes the original artwork by Browne.

Peter wrote: "Well, perhaps not so much speedsters as me making a mistake. It wasn’t the first and I can guarantee it won’t be the last.

Sorry about that..."

Ah, I hadn't realised there was any confusion! Not to worry - we all makes mistakes and should be allowed to now and then :) It was changing the planned date on a whim, without apparent reason, which stymied me for a while.