SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hi Everyone!

I'm mostly a fantasy reader, but would like to explore more SF. I have particular interest in the space opera subgenre (and more specifically, I've been looking into authors like Peter F. Hamilton, Ann Leckie, and James S.A. Corey).

But, as someone who feels intimated by the technological aspects of the genre, what are some good primers to better understand the general science behind these novels? I have Cosmos and it seems like a good start, but it was also published in 1980...is the information therein still relevant?

Sorry if this is a weird question, but any recs would be greatly appreciated!

I haven't really read much science non-fiction so I don't have a real answer to the question as asked. However: SF ranges from "hard sci-fi" to "science fantasy" and "space magic". Most of the SF I've read in my life has only a tenuous connection to actual science.

For example, if you like James S.A. Corey and The Expanse, then learning how actual orbital mechanics work will likely just irritate you when you realize how wrong and nonsensical the physics is in some of those books, and the "protomolecule" stuff is pure fantasy. I don't recall much "real" natural science or real technology in the Ann Leckie books I've read either.

The sci-fi books with well-done science still shouldn't really require any prerequisite knowledge, though it may enhance your enjoyment some.

If you do want to learn how orbital mechanics work, then instead of a book, I'll recommend a computer game: Kerbal Space Program. Though it's probably more technically intimidating than any SF book I've read! If you can figure that out, you too can be disappointed in SF writers forevermore.

David wrote: "I haven't really read much science non-fiction so I don't have a real answer to the question as asked. However: SF ranges from "hard sci-fi" to "science fantasy" and "space magic". Most of the SF I..."

Thank you for that reply, David - - it actually does make me feel a lot better. Although now I'm curious how much "real" science many of these authors know. It would be interesting to know which ones bend the rules of science because they understand how it actually works...and which ones just make up some crazy stuff as they go along :D.

In that case, it sounds like my best bet is just to find a book that looks interesting, not worry about the science too much, and enjoy the ride. Thanks again!

Mark, I think there's a C option - that they have done some amount of research and have enough science knowledge to be plausible or sounds good enough. And I think they count on their audience not being experts either. ;)

I really enjoy The Expanse series so far (and I don't know why I keep stalling on finishing the books. That's not true I do know why... they're long!) but they definitely hit the plausible zone for me most of the time, and where they don't, it's just good fun.

Check out The Martian if you want science-y math nerd realism. I don't know how accurate it really, truly is (that's way above my head) but it talks a good game about it, and I loved it.

There are definitely a few who know a lot, some of whom bend the rules and some who don't. Neal Stephenson in particular crams a huge amount of real science and technology in his books along with some that's way more speculative (at best). Cixin Liu's award-winning Three-Body Problem trilogy is full of real science (with a handful of what are definitely mistakes), especially at first, but starts to get more speculative in the second book and then gets way way out there in the third book. And The Martian is extremely accurate with one deliberately wrong bit that he included because it was necessary to make the story work.

Becky wrote: "Mark, I think there's a C option - that they have done some amount of research and have enough science knowledge to be plausible or sounds good enough. And I think they count on their audience not ..."

Ah, that's a great point! I suppose it's similar to fantasy authors who study real-world history, weapons, etc. of a certain place/period to make their analogous worlds feel more robust :).

The Expanse does sound really good, and I'm trying to decide whether to start with that or with Pandora's Star to start out my Space Opera journey.

David wrote: "There are definitely a few who know a lot, some of whom bend the rules and some who don't. Neal Stephenson in particular crams a huge amount of real science and technology in his books..."

Thanks! Isn't Neal Stephenson known mostly for cyberpunk kind of stuff? I've heard a lot of good things about Snow Crash.

Apparently Alastair Reynolds has a PhD in Astrophysics, so I'm assuming he's another one who falls into that camp.

I haven't read Reynolds or Hamilton so I can't comment about them, but I definitely do recommend The Expanse in spite of its occasionally dodgy science. I read through book 7 before book 8 came out and I fell off the train. Still need to get back on and finish it.

Neal Stephenson does a wide variety of stuff. Snow Crash is cyberpunk. The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer is a sort of "post-cyberpunk", set in a world built on nanotechnology, with themes of computer science mixed in. Seveneves is a near-future end-of-the-world novel.

But if you're intimidated by science in sci-fi... his books are probably about as intimidating as it gets. Massive and full of lengthy info-dumps about all sorts of varied subjects.

So I would agree with those who've said that a lot of science knowledge isn't really necessary to understand sci-fi. However, I do think that increasing your general knowledge about science can be both rewarding for its own sake and for making "hard sci-fi" feel more accessible. My recommendation is actually looking for blogs and articles written by scientists (and sci-fi authors!) about topic areas that you're interested in. If there are particular articles that catch your interest, then see if the writer has books they've written or recommend.

Mark wrote: "Hi Everyone!

I'm mostly a fantasy reader, but would like to explore more SF. I have particular interest in the space opera subgenre (and more specifically, I've been looking into authors like [aut..."

I enjoyed [book:Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void|9542311] Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void and An Astronaut's Guide to Life on Earth.

Astrophysics for People in a Hurry was just okay for me but it might fit your bill too.

I also plan to read The Future of Humanity: Terraforming Mars, Interstellar Travel, Immortality and Our Destiny Beyond Earth since it was recommended by friends.

Hi Mark



As everyone else has said, you don't need to know the science to read scifi - and doing so can sometimes detract from the enjoyment if the suspension of disbelief required is particularly egregious.



That said, I think it's worth reading pop-sci physics and cosmology boos just because they're great. Sagan was such a great writer and communicator, and was unparalleled at dealing with the big-picture stuff. My two favourite physics writers are Brian Greene and Sean Carroll, bot of whom write with passion and clarity and wonderful imagery.



As you say, Reynolds is an astrophysicist ( he worked at the ESA until relatively recently ), but he doesn't let that get in the way of telling a good story!



Hope you enjoy your foray into scifi :)

David wrote: "But if you're intimidated by science in sci-fi... his books are probably about as intimidating as it gets. Massive and full of lengthy info-dumps about all sorts of varied subjects."

In that case, I'll stay aware for now...at least until I'm a bit more experienced in the genre. Thanks for the warning!

Kaa and Silvana - thanks so much for your responses (and nice seeing you both here!) You've definitely given me some ideas.

Paul - thanks for the reply, in fact Brian Greene was on my shortlist to try after I finish Cosmos. It looks like Greene has a few books out there; which would you recommend someone start with?

So, I may be a bit of a Luddite when it comes to science, but I often read SF to become acquainted with some important ideas in the various sciences.

I think The Martian did a ton for helping me contextualize what a rocket launch entails, and what sorts of things astronauts have to know.

The Three-Body Problem is probably the closest I'll ever come to understanding the complex (impossible?) mathematics of having three or more objects who all orbit each other. I'm told that there are other such issues in later books, but I haven't read.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and the response to it found in The Dispossessed could be an entire poli sci 101.

Michael Chrichton was assigned to us in biology class in 9th grade to help us understand more about DNA lol

Theory of Bastards was a good look at primates and where evolution split us, bonobos and chimps.

And so on. I don't read a lot of military scifi, so if that's what you're looking for I'd imagine more of a primer might be necessary (they start talking about FTL engines and the distance of space and I lose 'em). But if you want hard science that's approachable, these might be good starting points, too!

Other than that, second Brian Greene, maybe The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality to start? or The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory?

We Have No Idea: A Guide to the Unknown Universe

Is a great humor filled intro to space physics and

A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing

Is a mind blowing in depth discussion of how our universe could pop out from nothing.

Back in the day it used be a point of pride for particular authors to use only (or almost only) real science in their books. Those were among my favorites. Asimov, Clarke, Robert L. Forward.... Oh, and somewhat newer, I also very much appreciate the work of the anthropologist Chad Oliver.

A google search of "which sf authors were real scientists" gives more hits than I have time to explore right now, including a wikipedia entry about book I *must* find, Great Science Fiction by Scientists.

Do Leckie and the others brag on their credentials nowadays?

Edit: I misread, I didn't notice you were actually looking for non-fiction. Looks like others are giving you good suggestions though!

I would read books by Neil deGrasse Tyson. He can fill in alot of gaps regarding space knowledge and other stuff while you're at it.

I always liked Michael Crichton and Robin Cook for medical science. MC always did a good job at looking into the newest tech and writing "science gone wrong" novels.

Another author I really like is James Rollins who uses new science and does a "what if" connection to the past. The science used in the novels usually makes me go looking for further information. I think he usually provides a list of sources in the back as well.

A Universe From Nothing is pretty good - I would recommend avoiding the audio for that one though (if you're an audiobook person, that is). I also liked The 4% Universe: Dark Matter, Dark Energy, and the Race to Discover the Rest of Reality.

What If? Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions was pretty fun and interesting as well.

The Story of Earth: The First 4.5 Billion Years, from Stardust to Living Planet was pretty good.

I don't know why I didn't think of any of these before! (Also really enjoyed Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void - which Silvana mentioned.)

I would reverse the order: read science fiction first. Then if a particular science topic catches your interest, explore it with relevant non-fiction. If something doesn't interest you, consider it a plot device and don't worry about the details.

Chris wrote: "I would reverse the order: read science fiction first. Then if a particular science topic catches your interest, explore it with relevant non-fiction. If something doesn't interest you, consider it..."

This does make the most sense to me. It's how I did it, back in the day, and *sometimes* still do.

Thanks for all these suggestions, everyone. I knew I could count on this group :). I'm going to comb through all the recs and start adding to my list. By the way, on the fiction side, I've decided to go for Leviathan Wakes as my next read.

And Chris, that is a genius idea!

Mark wrote: "By the way, on the fiction side, I've decided to go for Leviathan Wakes as my next read."

Enjoy!! :D

Forgot to mention this, Mark, since it is more general (history) of Science and not specific on space, but A Short History of Nearly Everything is a wonderful read and made me realize which science topics I am most interested to explore more.

Mark wrote: "Paul - thanks for the reply, in fact Brian Greene was on my shortlist to try after I finish Cosmos. It looks like Greene has a few books out there; which would you recommend someone start with? "



No problem Mark. You've started a great discussion here :)


I'd have to point you toward The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality, which is simply wonderful.





I wrote a (non-spoilery) review back in 2015

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Paul wrote: I wrote a (non-spoilery) review back in 2015

Which prompts a philosophical question: how important is it that the review of a nonfiction book be "non-spoilery"?

Margaret wrote: "Paul wrote: I wrote a (non-spoilery) review back in 2015

Which prompts a philosophical question: how important is it that the review of a nonfiction book be "non-spoilery"?"



Haha! I thought that as i was typing it; I'd said it because I skimmed the review and saw I'd said something of that sort in it :)

Margaret wrote: "Paul wrote: I wrote a (non-spoilery) review back in 2015

Which prompts a philosophical question: how important is it that the review of a nonfiction book be "non-spoilery"?"

For me, it's important. I'm very anti-spoiler, to the point where a lot of times I don't even read the description of a book if I have a general idea of what it's about and I'm interested in reading it already. I want the book to speak for itself... regardless of fiction or non-fiction. (But this is why I generally don't read reviews before the book. :P)

Paul wrote: "I'd have to point you toward The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality, which is simply wonderful."

Sounds great! I just added it to my TBR, and it looks like two of my GR friends have given it 5 stars. Looks like an interesting one.

Pixiegirl105 wrote: "I would read books by Neil deGrasse Tyson. He can fill in alot of gaps regarding space knowledge and other stuff while you're at it."

That would be my recommendation too. deGrasse Tyson's Astrophysics for People in a Hurry is a great place to start as it covers a lot of subjects essential to the SF reader.

David wrote: "I haven't really read much science non-fiction so I don't have a real answer to the question as asked. However: SF ranges from "hard sci-fi" to "science fantasy" and "space magic". Most of the SF I..."

This is very true! When I started reading hard scifi and other scifi at the age of 10 (adult scifi) I had very little science as you can imagine, and it didn't stop me from enjoying it one wit.

Also, I find it easier to enjoy scifi if I DON'T know the science behind it, with some exceptions. Studying biology in university hurt rather than helped me enjoy certain scifi for some years, although now I am getting better at suspending my disbelief if the novel is good enough.

I liked A Brief History of Time better than Astrophysics for People in a Hurry, and if that's too long I think there is also A Briefer History of Time. But either or both of these authors will help for newer scifi, but not for anything prior to the Big Bang, etc. (but not for really old stuff like HG Wells, et al).

For US Audible members, one of March's freebies is The Science of Sci-Fi.

Silvana wrote: "I also plan to read The Future of Humanity: Terraforming Mars, Interstellar Travel, Immortality and Our Destiny Beyond Earth since it was recommended by friends."

I'm planning on reading this book (Kaku's latest) after I finish his Physics of the Future. He's just phenomenal.

Alex wrote: "Silvana wrote: "I also plan to read The Future of Humanity: Terraforming Mars, Interstellar Travel, Immortality and Our Destiny Beyond Earth since it was recommended by friends."

I'm planning on r..."

Cool, I am looking forward to it!