SFF Readalongs led by Kitty G discussion

Discussion of chapters 10 & 11 of the book ONLY, no spoilers for any other parts of the book please!

Ok, let me see if I got even a little bit of this correct about Tattersail. She opened herself fully up to the Thyr Warren in order to destroy Bellurdan and her own body but was able to transfer her soul to the dead corpse of Nightchill. Then she was found by Kruppe, Pran Chole, a bonecaster of the T'lan Imass, one of the four founding races, that are now immortal, and a Rhivi woman. I believe Either Pran or the Rhivi woman are from the past. Tattersail, inside Nightchill's dead body, then gets absorbed into the woman's body, and birthed as a new child. This new Tattersail has unknown power because of the circumstances.

What I'm confused about, other than WHAAATTTT THE FFfff..., is the Rhivi woman from the past or Pran? Has Tattersail been birthed into the current time or in the past? Am I missing something vital?

Also, Kruppe's dreams are much more than just dreams, it seems he enters a spiritual world of sorts.

I'm a few pages from finishing 11 but I wanted to type that while it was fresh in my mind.

edit: Yah, with this particular scene, it is hard to know if I missed something, or if the information just hasn't been provided yet.

I've just read this part of the book and am so confused also. I thought present as Kruppe's dreams all have some relevance when he wakes the next day. for example he hears the coin spinning and then it is passed to Crokus the same night.

These two chapters were crazy! That whole thing with Tattersail was messed up (and kind of genius).

Paul, I understood all that the same way you did. My interpretation is Tattersail was birthed in the present.

This was also (I believe) our first time in Sorry's POV (except perhaps the first chapter). Interesting to see her confusion about her own identity.

Lots of interesting stuff about the history of the races in this section too. And what is Quick Ben up to, I wonder?

I have a feeling all that history of the races stuff is going to be really important too.

Knowing the names of the rest of the books in the series kind of sucks because they will mention something in GotM that is exactly the name of the later books and I'll know what that book is probably going to be about.

@Paul and PT: Yes, you are on the right track and retained way more from the dream sequence than I was able to connect on my first read.

And at this point I'd like to show another very tiny example of Erikson's subtle genius in connecting the events of chapter 10 with chapter 11.
Look at how he lets Kruppe describe the night very innocently, considering who is one of the people at the fire:

He was alone in the chill night.

Every sentence has a purpose with Erikson and isn't chosen just randomly.

Another interesting thing I'd like to talk about at this point is that you can now see one of the themes of the book.
Rebirth/Ressurrection is a recurring topic. We speculated that the wax witch might live on in Sorry and her possession is kind of a new life as well.
Paran had his encounter with certain death and was granted a rebirth as well.
There are also many more subtle references to rebirth as well, f.e. the name of the inn in Darujhistan, where Kruppe, Crokus and co. meet is of course the Phoenix Inn.
And hilariously it has the emblem of a dead rooster painted on it, which is Erikson's way of reminding us that you actually need to die to be reborn.

Ooh okay, so, this was exciting and really seemed to be a big jam-packed chapter. In this chapter we see the crazy stuff with Tattersail and yes, Paul, I also interpreted it the same way that you did and I assume that she was birthed back into the present (as P.T said) because it would be the most logical way for her to remain a key player and part of the story. I'm looking forward to seeing if she remembers her initial purpose before changing into a dead person ;) or if she's a but coo-coo now (as would be kind of understandable after the crazy ordeal she just went through.

I believe that the team of Param and Toc is an interesting one as they seem to both be fairly well matched and exciting characters and once again I am looking forward to what happens with them as they attempted to follow Tattersail but now assume her dead. I wonder which action they will take next and if they will still go and join up with the Bridgeburners as they had planned before.

I liked the small section where we saw Crone again and saw her Brethren and her involvement with Hairlock. I guess that now she's aware of him his secret is out and she will report this back to her master in the coming chapters. I do wonder what the response to this knowledge will be as Hairlock is pretty crazy, powerful and good at hiding in the Warrens.

I liked the fact that we saw Sorry's POV again and I thought that she was having an internal battle for who and what she is which I found very entertaining. It seems that she doesn't entirely know there's someone or something sharing her body and mind and therefore it's interesting to question which actions that she performs are her own and which aren't. I wonder if we shall see this inner turmoil grow as the story goes on, and if that will affect her sanity.

Overall I really enjoyed both these chapters and I am looking forward to continuing now that we're over halfway through! Yay! It all seems to be ramping up in intensity and I don't know where we'll end up which is a very fun idea.

Yea, when I was reading Kruppe's dream in Ch11. I was like WTF. lol I'm understanding it the same as you all thankfully. Tattersail was Soulshifted from night chill to a child via the (present time)Rhivi woman. What I'm curious about was the effect from Tools warren this had on her going into Night Chill? I also notice in that dream K'Rul and Kruppe discuss about the protection of Crokus/coin bearer? Also telling Kruppe to stay neutral taliking about Lorn and Tool, even if he doesnt agree with them, wonder how thats going down?
I like the combination of Paran and Toc and how there interact. Lorn and Tool are also going to raise a Jaghut Tyrant? I still confused about that?
Paran was pissed when he found the seen of Tattersail and Bellduran's fight. Wonder what will come of crone reporting Hairlock?
Back to Ch 11
So Crokus and his uncle is gonna educate him, but when they talk history i still seem to be a little confused? Later in the bar, So is Sorry gonna kill Crokus, since he seen the blood on her dagger? And the impact of her seeing the spinning coin? Finally Quick Ben and in the Warren of Shadow he called out and heard hounds. Is that Gear??

That opening recollection between Kallor and Brood is just classic. The fact that Kallor speaks a grand statement like that but is recorded as second in command to Brood says alot about both of them.

One thing I'd like to mention here. When Bellurdan confronts Tattersail, he says that her Thyr warren cannot function over water. I may call this an inconsistency (there are a couple in this novel in regards to the rest of the series) but I don't believe this particular limitation ever occurs again in the series. A small thing ultimately I suppose, but still irks me a little all the same.

It is curious here that Bellurdan comments that Thelomen have Jaghut blood in their veins. And why would this Gothos deny that?

And in one of the stranger turns yet, Tattersail opens her Thyr warren to oppose Bellurdan, ignites the energies there and embraces him, incinerating them both. An event which pretty much it seems everyone on Genebackis takes notice of, given the sorceries involved with it.

Lorn wrongly assumes that there were only three Elder warrens, but Tool corrects her that there were many, yet they are all born of an singular warren, Starvald Demelain. To which Lorn wonders who could have managed such a thing. And all that Tool remarks is that there was one who had.

Even though Oponn has tried to remain an unknown player in the events going on on Genabackis, it looks
like their efforts have been for naught if even Brood and Crone far to the north of Darujhistan are aware of their influence, and of the god's interest in a 'Coin Bearer'.

It feels a little odd to me that Crone would say that she knows little of the Crimson Guard. Since in later books it seems that their exploits and purpose are at least somewhat public knowledge, not something that would be obscure to an impossibly old creature such as Crone. Except maybe she just doesn't care about them, which would actually be sort of fitting. But also, there's something about this scene (and a couple of others related to it) that bothers me, that I can't really mention, and I don't really know why I'm bothering because I'm sure I'll just annoy you guys with my unintentional obscurity. But it's another (possible) inconsistency with the rest of the series. Maybe, I could just be remembering things wrong.

And here we meet Kallor, who is a persistently bitter old guy. That's putting it mildly. One thing I like that's done here (it's really been happening the whole book sort of) is the way Erikson gives us a sense of history in this reading, or that we're witnessing history. In many fantasy books, Wheel of Time is one such that pops into mind, in poems, prophecies, or historical texts that usually preface
chapters or books, they usually include historical figures that really have no bearing on the book itself. However in Malazan, this occurs regularly. Poems written by Toc the Younger are mentioned, historical recollections by Felisin (who we haven't met, but we've met her siblings Ganoes and Tavore),
and most notably here I think, a conversation between Kallor and Brood opens the chapter. It gives us the feeling that we're witnessing real historical figures in real time whose actions will bear great significance in the course of time and will be recorded by scholars. The past is not always separated by the present.

Lorn's trek to Darujhistan with Tool is one of my favorite sections of this book. They make such a dichotomous pair. And Tool acts for us as a lens into many aspects of this world and tells us portions of its history. Tool is such an alien figure, almost impossible to truly comprehend because of his inconceivably old age. A well written and very unique figure, and the T'lan Imass as a whole too.

'Convergence,' Tool said. 'Power ever draws other power.' I'm sure you've noticed this line spoken
several times lately with good reason. This is one of the biggest themes of the series. One power present will draw the attentions of others always, in this case, many powerful forces are now focusing their eyes on Darujhistan, and a convergence is starting to form there.

'Tell me Tool, what dominates your thoughts?'
'I think of futility.'
'Do all Imass think about futility?'
'No. Few think at all.'
'Why is that?'
'Because, Adjunct, it is futile.'

If you'll permit me to be a little snobbish, but this exchange is even more funny to me than it already is on its own. But it'll take 8 books, all the way to Toll The Hounds to understand why. I don't know if Erikson intended this, but I hope so.

Alright, since I've said too much about chapter 10 and neglected 11, the next chapter will have to be condensed.

I could spend a bunch of text on Kruppe's dream this time around. But all I'll say is, Tattersail's rebirth with has significant and lasting ramifications in ways you don't really expect yet. And Kruppe's non chalant nature about Chole having something to look forward to for the next three hundred thousand years is hysterical.

Through the lessons of Tool to Lorn, Pran Chole to Kruppe, and Mammot to Crokus, we start to see a clearer picture of the older races of the world that have all but dissappeared. The most prelevant being the T'lan Imass, most well known as bound to the Malazan Empire to be used for their purposes. The Jaghut, which are masters of magic and are prone to tyranny. And finally the mysterious Forkrul Assail as well as K'Chain Che'Malle (pronounce that however you like).

It looks like Sorry is dealing with the influence of many different entities within her. The fishergirl, Cotillion, and the word seer sets her off again, causing even more confusion.

And finally, the always gutsy Quick Ben, decides to foster a meeting with Shadowthrone.

Josh wrote: "What I'm curious about was the effect from Tools warren this had on her going into Night Chill?"

Nice thought worth chewing on.

I am not sure I recall any main character outright dying. Tattersail, Paran, and Hairlock all were reborn in different ways.

I thought when Tattersail's first lover died that maybe this series follows the horror movie trope of "if you have sex you die" and thus far everyone who has made love has in fact died with two being reborn.

I see another theme with anti-magic forces (Empire and T'lam Imass) teaming against forces of magic (mages and Jughut) though the magic side has not found a common ground so far.