SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while but my initial three that immediately popped in my head:

Peter Wiggins and Bonzo Madrid from Ender's Game

And Wormtongue from LOTR...

More later. Now it is your turn!

Another great topic! I interpret this to be lame characters as opposed to favourite villains. This is a personal selection - no offence to huge fans of the following...

1. Tom Bombadil, from The Lord of the Rings. The most annoying character I have ever read. Good thing he wasn't the ringbearer. Who would want to join a fellowship with him in it?

2. Richard Rahl, from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. He's a bit overpowered (you are never in the least bit worried that he will come to an unfortunate end), and the author uses him to lecture the reader too much. If I want to learn more about objectivism, I'll read Ayn Rand's books.

3. Howard De Vore from David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series. The most boring evil mastermind ever. At least the 'good guys' scheme against each other enough to offset the deficit of evil De Vore provides.

4. Riverwind and Goldmoon. Noble tribal elders? Yawn. (Admittedly, they are a lot more interesting in the 'lost chronicles', but this is 20 years too late).

I'll take both. The ones I mentioned I guess I love to hate. As for boring or lame ones... Ogion from A Wizard of Earthsea at times annoyed me. Really wish he didn't. Also, Professor Trelawney from the Harry Potter series really irked me.

From a purely philosophical pov, I can understand your hesitancy for Lord Rahl in Goodkind's works (honestly, Confessor left a lot to be desired for me!). But really, I think the worst one in that series has to be Prelate Annalina. Pedantic and boring at best and never developed to her full merit at worst, I couldn't stand the character/woman.

Hands down the winner here is Thomas Covenent from Stephen Donaldson's series ... followed by Terry Goodkind's Richard Rahl ... both of which I despised so much that I could not finish the series.

Least Favorite Characters:

1) Elayne Trakand, Jordan's Wheel of Time - Seriously, can you treat the men in the story anymore like dung underneath your shoe? You would think with how much trouble she got herself into and how often she was saved by everyone she looks down on, she would learn some appreciation. I guess she fits right in with the rest of the Aes Sedai in that department. I will admit though, from the time the rebellion started, she has grown into a character that appreciates those around her more.

2) Draco Malfoy, Rowling's Harry Potter - GROW A PAIR, YOU SNIVELING, WEASELY COWARD! That's all I have on him.

Most Hated Villains:

1) Jedi Master Jorus C'boath, Zahn's Outbound Flight and Hand of Thrawn Trilogy - As one of my most hated villains, he's also one of my favorites! Jorus' views on what a Jedi should be are the exact opposite of what the Order teaches a Jedi should be. Honestly, I'm amazed he was able to go for so long without crossing to the Darkside earlier, not to mention that no one else noticed this disturbing behavior until it was far too late.

2) Kylara, McCaffrey's Pern Series - God I can't stand that woman!

3) Lord Foul, Donladson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant - I don't know who preaches more, Richard Rahl (who I like, so there!) or Lord Foul. At least with Richard, not every scene with him was a long monologue on morality. It gets old after a while. Gotta hand it to him though, he has more patience than any other villain I've read about.

I actually had a hard time coming up with least favorite characters. But off the top of my head...

-Eleria from David Edding's Dreamers series. She was the single reason I didn't make it past the first half of the first book. Icky and annoying.

-Ce'nedra from David Edding's Belgariad. Spoiled and annoying.

-Cordelia Ransom in David Weber's Honor Harringon series. For being a mean bitch. And not in a "you go girl!" sort of way.

- Sansa Stark in George R.R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series. I am including her on this list but with and asterisk. I wanted to slap her silly in the first two books, but I have hopes that she will improve. But for now she is on the list.

So this is going to be a little different then the topic asks..I would like to say that the character Elrond...from LOTR. I liked his character in the books... but the movies.. geeze sometimes I had a hard time seeing Mr. Smith as Elrond! So that is my worst character but in the movie not in the book. I kept seeing him about to do some karate.

It looks like the words "Least Favorite" are being interpreted all kinds of ways! I'd say we have at least three categories:

1. Characters you love to hate (or not like) - i.e., well written, intentionally irksome, hateable, tragic, or some such adjective. These characters are probably in a good book. Lamia and her sister are examples of this for Donna.

2. Characters you hate to read in a good book - poorly written or realized characters, or characters that you are supposed to like but don't. In a good book these are annoying because you don't think they are up to the quality of the rest of the book. Tom Bombadil for Ty.

3. Characters you hate to read in a bad book - they may be so bad as to ruin the entire book. Eleria for Tina.

So, here's three for me:
Type 1. Cersei from Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. Vile scheming bitch!

Type 2. I can't think of one from sci-fi. The main character from the Kite Runner is a good example of this for me.

Type 3. The main guy from that Donaldson book that degrades a woman in space for apparently an entire book. I read about fifty pages and was about ready to throw up.

I have to agree with whomever said Richard Rahl from the Sword of Truth--and throw in his wife, too--though, I forget how Goodkind spells her name. Both of them are annoying. I loved them in "Wizard's First Rule"--but shortly thereafter, I stopped caring about them. And the series plunged in quality as well.

Any of Marion Zimmer Bradley's female characters. I get that she's trying to do Arthurian legend from the feminine point of view, but they were all annoying to me.

Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four. Lighten up, Patches.

Sturm Brightblade from Dragonlance. I just can't buy the honor-code type knights. A character needs be flawed and an oath like Sturm lived by prevents that. I loved the rest of the characters, but I used to skim over the parts with Sturm as fast as I could because I just couldn't buy him as a character. He didn't deserve the death he got, though.

It is like a dagger to the heart to hear people say they can't stand Richard Rahl's character, or Kahlan's for that matter. I LOVED every book and every character in their own way.

I have a hard time picking a "Least Favorite" character. Even characters we hate the books wouldn't be right without them.

Have to pick at least one....Richard from the Anita Blake series...I always want to back hand him with his piss-poor closed mind attitude!!!!

: )

Thank god, someone mentioned Cersei. I'm so glad that GRRM, even with his use of perspective, hasn't been able to dim my hatred for that bitch. She's just so much fun to hate.

I'll agree with Thomas Covenant wholeheartedly. I couldn't even make it through half of the first book of that series.

I recently read "Polaris" by Jack McDevitt and I have to say that the narrator, Chase Kolpath was incredibly annoying. She is so poorly written and Jack McDevitt clearly has no insight into the female mind. She just spends way too much time boasting about her looks and the men that she attracts. She's an extremely successful, educated woman who also is a great space pilot and mechanic. She's very brilliant, so the bragging about her looks just doesn't ring true.

Chiming in to agree about Thomas Covenant. My husband LOVED those books, but even as an antihero, I just couldn't take him. I think I got halfway through the first book.

Hands down, Maya in Kim Stanley Robinson's MARS trilogy, though I was still able to finish the books.

(Can't say the same for my dislike of Gwen in Robbins' Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas)

can i pick jar jar (i know it's not a book)

HA jar jar that is great!

Recently, I tried to read a couple of Gemmel books, featuring the main character Skilganon. I expected to like Gemmel, but Skilganon really annoyed me, much in the same way that Goodkind’s Richard did. Some of the minor characters were great, though.

Garion - Pawn of Prophecy (Belgariad) by David Eddings

Gully Foyle from "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester is a truly unlikable protagonist.

If you can pick jar jar can I pick Jack from LOST?

Wesley Crusher for SciFi.

Lord Foul from the Covenant series.

hmmm, that's true, i might actually prefer jar jar to wesley crusher, but i think in the end, with the traveler and stuff, didn't wesley save everybody?

Yes, he did, but I still despise him. :)

HeyT:

i don't watch lost (I know...there's something wrong with me), but i think Jack's annoying just for being on Party of Five

lolol I saw Vantage Point just to see if his character cried!!! We have a running joke about Jack and his tears (JEARS) and always say, "Jack's crying, must be [wed] thursday!" :P

i just remember that whenever anyone on party of five had something deep to say, they'd start shaking their head back and forth (i mean ALL the characters), and i watch a couple of the early episodes of lost and i saw Jack still doing his head shaking acting and that was it, couldn't watch the show (obviously i have some issues with party of five :)

Thankfully I never saw more than the pilot on that one ;)

My least favorite character is JA Ja Binks,from Star Wars. I think that's his name. Yes, much worse that Crusher.
Now if we were talking about movies then I'd have to say most of the cast of "Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy" that movie was a total waste. It didn't stick to the plot of the series and I can't decide who I hated worse. the way they did the Vogon, how they did Zaphod Bebblebrox 2 heads, or Marvin the paranoid android. I liked the BBC mini series much better.
G W Pickle

Yes, the BBC miniseries, despite some cheesiness, was a very enjoyable production. I wonder if Netfix carries it? I shall have to check!

JarJar Binks will definitely go down in the annals as quite possibly the most odious of sci-fi movie characters. The worst part about that character is it's unsubtle portrayal as a shuffling, bumbling stereotype most typically used against people of African descent in the American media. Sadly, and quite ironically, the actor who served as both the voice and body model for the CGI JarJar is a black man.

I'll agree with the consensus of the last few posts: Jar-Jar Binks is pretty loathesome. Though, I can't bring myself to count him as a real literary figure (this is the "GoodReads" site after all) even though he does show up in Star Wars novels.

Remaining strictly with literature, here are some of my vote getters:

1. Characters you like but probably shouldn't: Melisande Shahrizai from Jacq. Carey's Terre d'Ange novels; Thrawn from Zahn's Star Wars novels; and (going really obscure here) King Gorice from E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroburos.

2. Loathesome characters (on a par with Jar-Jar): Jason from John Gardner's adaptation of the Medea myth.

3. Just poorly written characters in a sub-par novel: The two inventor-geniuses in Peter Hamilton's Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained who beat Captain Kime to Mars and whose actual names I forget, not having the books in front of me.

Least favorite in Fantasy that I actually remember the characters in is the whole bloody White Tower from Wheel of Time series. I hope the Dark One smacks that pompous bag of crap off the WoT map in the last book next year.

For Sci-Fi, I would pick the Pharaoh from Kai Of Khem, very nasty man.

wesley crucher star trek the next gen. SO boring even the borg wouldent want him

Fair enough,re: the character...and I'm sure that's all you were referring to...but I have to defend the man for a moment in other regards. Wil Wheaton is a very talented writer, and someone I find to be extremely interesting. He has followed a different route than many child-actors, and has found happiness and sanity through his writing and his family, and I strive to do that same thing myself. If you've never read his blog, it's quite interesting, and I highly recommend it. http://wilwheaton.typepad.com

As far as my least favorite character goes, I think it would be Jar Jar as well - so creative,I know.

I agree, and I love McDevitt's novels. The problem is that his strengths are not really in characterization; he likes to build up an archeological mystery and the characters are really only there to move that mystery along somewhat. I don't mind it as much as you, even bad McDevitt is better than a lot of crap that sees print these days.

For my money, I rather like Hutchinson. Doesn't ruminate on personal attraction except only in a very fleeting way, and keeps her mind focused on the mission. You KNOW she has a personal life, but it happens offscreen, which works for me as a reader.

H.

Ben,
You are so right about Wil Wheaton. I don't know him personally, but I know someone who does, and from what she tells me, he is a super nice guy.

My cousin used to work with him. In the tech industry actually. A company that created a video toaster that won an emmy. So I'm only one degree difference from him but never met him.

I don't have any problems with Wil, just the character of Wesley Crusher. :)

i know it's not scifi or fantasy, but i was pretty much annoyed with every single character in pillars of earth

Characterization of the sexes often ruins or hurts a book badly for me & my wife. Humans have 2 sexes & there are differences. When they get ignored, it can ruin an otherwise good story. In these PC days, that's happening more & more often.

I hate it when women are as physically strong as their male counterparts unless augmentation of some form is spelled out. There's a difference in the construction of the sexes. All my life, I've worked around the farm with women. Mom out-worked me for years (more endurance) but not in sheer strength since I was a young teen. So I just can't take it when a Playboy bunny type carries around the same armor as Conan or swings an ax like he does.

The other thing that bugs me is when women authors don't get male characters right & dig into their psyche. Their men often worry about things that would never cross my mind. The obverse is true as well, but doesn't irritate me as much. My wife & I have often noticed that. It bugs us when it is our sex that has the character wrong, doesn't when it isn't. Grates on the nerves until the book just isn't worth reading.

Jim, I just wrote an article about men writing female characters poorly. It's a serious pet peeve of mine. It's meant to be amusing as well as informative. Hit up my profile for a link to my site so you can read it.

Robert, you certainly did a good job of hitting the high points. I read through your article saying, "Yes, yes, YES!" You should post it here.

I've heard my ladies discuss other women & their own issues often enough. Listen to mother & daughter discuss bras & underwear as the girl gets older. It gives a rather earthy perspective of them.

I think female writers should keep male jokes firmly in mind when writing about them. My wife played Brad Paisley's song "I'm still a guy" for me, telling me it was dead on the mark. She wasn't too wrong. The general rules that make jokes so funny are actually true.

While a caricature can also get old, I'd rather see that then to read, as I recently did, a macho barbarian describing something as being 'chartreuse' in color. I'll bet "kinda greeny-yellow" or "sorta yellow" is the best most men will come up with, if they even know or care. I wouldn't have known the color except there is a liqueur of that name & color. Women might think it's a joke, but 'sorta yellow' is a perfectly acceptable color to me.

I think the entire Gor series was annoying. Probably because my brother swore by it. I liked the Tarzan books better back then. Now I can't read it any of it.

Saruman. What a weasel.

Lord Foul. And Thomas. Sorry, but although I read and loved three of the books, it got a little tedious for a while there. I was glad later that I'd stuck it out, but I have to admit, the story could get dreary at times.

I can't take the Gor books but I had a female friend who absolutely loved them and attempted to write a similar type book.

I also had a friend, a male, who read all the Gor books while we were in college together. He viewed them as a joke, though, at least that's what he told me! I couldn't stomach them either, Terri.

Griffin's Daughter

Hear hear! (Kristjan). I could never stomach the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, and HE was the reason, that weak, sniveling pathetic bastid. One of the most hostile reads in fiction I've ever attempted.

Juniper Mackenzie: in Dies the Fire by Stirling.

I cant stand her earth mother new age crap. She has the heart of gold and is the only person capable of uniting the remnants of civilization after the machines of stopped functioning.

Before the crisis, she was a single Mom trying to raise her daughter by singing in the local coffee shop. Suddenly after the crisis, she is the Alpha female taking on all the survivors to her farm and they willingly and eagerly join her Wiccan religion and in effect make her a sort of New Age Pope.

Im not saying these things couldnt happen, but supposedly all this takes place within a few months after the crisis.

I suppose I dont really hate the woman herself, I really hate the way Stirling writes.
too many happy coincidences.
too short a time scale.

I TOTALLY agree on the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant...and YES HE was the reason, he was a weak, sniveling, pathetic bastard!! I even broke up with my boyfriend at the time over it...he loved those books and I was like really? He somehow "related"--that is how I knew we were NOT meant to be! :-)

Every now and then, when I read a badly written character by an author of the opposite gender, I think of 'As Good as it Gets' when a woman asks Jack Nicholos how he writes women so well, and he replies "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

As for characters I hate... I thought the heroine from Symphony of Ages was annoying until her boyfriend showed up. Rhapsody is just badly written in that she acts completely contrary to how the author describes her. She's a one time prostitute who's completely oblivious to how obsessed and lust-ridden she makes everyone she meets, and yet the author calls her intelligent. She's described as fair and compassionate despite being haughty, judgemental, quick-tempered, and unforgiving.

As for Ashe? Uhg! He comes off as a player character someone rolled up for a d&d campaign (see, I'm this half-dragon...), his presence turns any chapter from fantasy to bad romance.