Victorians! discussion

Our group read for Mid-April—Mid-May 2020 is North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell. Hope you will join in!

North and South (1854–55) is Elizabeth Gaskell’s fourth novel and one of her best known ones. In the story, Margaret Hale whose family has lived in the south of England (and who has been brought up largely by her much-wealthier aunt), finds herself having to move to the industrial north of the country when her father, a vicar, has some doubts and decides to leave his church. Life in Milton (based on Manchester) is completely different from that in the peaceful agricultural life she has seen so far, with constant activity, and also clashes between employers and workers who often fail to see each other’s point of view. Here Margaret befriends the Higginses, Nicholas and his daughter Bessy who both work in a mill, and also through her father gets to know John Thornton, a self-made cotton mill-owner with whom she frequently clashes. The book traces both the issues of labor relations as well as the personal stories—of Thornton and Margaret, as well as the Higgins family.

Elizabeth Cleghorn Gaskell was an English novelist and biographer. She wrote six novels, several novellas and short stories, poetry, as well as a bio of Charlotte Brontë. Born on 29 September 1810 in Chelsea, London, Gaskell was the youngest of eight children; but only she and her brother John survived infancy. She attended Barford School and thereafter Avonbank, and at sixteen, travelled to London to spend time with her cousins. In 1832, she married a Unitarian minister, William Gaskell, and settled in Manchester. She began writing her first novel to escape the grief of losing her only son, and Mary Barton was published in 1848. This brought her fame as a social novelist as she depicted the lives of the working classes. While her works slipped into obscurity for a time, in the 1950s and 60s, things began to change in her favour once more.

Find bios of Gaskell on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabe...

The Victorian Web: http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/g...

Various essays and analyses of North and South: http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/g...

North and South has been adapted for TV three times, most recently by the BBC in 2004 starring Daniela Denby-Ashe and Richard Armitage.

Details on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_%...

The book is in public domain on Project Gutenberg here: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/4276/...

Some other formats here: http://girlebooks.com/ebook-catalog/e...

Audio on Librivox here: https://librivox.org/search?title=Nor...

Reading Schedule (between 69 and 75 pages each week)
Week 1: 11 April—Chapters I–VIII
Week 2: 18 April—Chapters IX–XVIII
Week 3: 25 April—Chapters XIX–XXVII
Week 4: 2 May—Chapters XXVIII–XXXVI
Week 5: 9 May—Chapters XXXVII–XLIII
Week 6: 16 May—Chapters XLIV–LII

As I mentioned in the "Tea Parlor" there is an episode on the popular BBC program In Our Time for 'North and South'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08h...

You can either listen to it online or via podcast. I haven't listened to it yet, and I am debating to wait until I've finished reading the book and refreshed my memory.

Thanks for sharing Kerstin :)

I'll be in, too. It'll be my third time reading it. :) But the last read was three years ago, so it is a good time to read again.

This is one of my favorite Victorian novels. Its been a while that I read it. I will read it with you again.

My favourite Victorian novel too, and perhaps my most favourite book, thanks to the BBC series! ;) Hope to find time to read it again - third time too! :)

Thanks for all the information and links Ladies!

Good to hear, and looking forward to a great discussion! It'll be the third for me as well.

Here are three further links that might be of use, particularly the online resources from John Rylands library from the University of Manchester. All provide background and insight into The life and work of Elizabeth Gaskell.

https://luna.manchester.ac.uk/luna/se...

https://gaskellsociety.co.uk/elizabet...

https://elizabethgaskellhouse.co.uk/a...

Thanks Trev! The collection looks especially interesting!

Trev wrote: "Here are three further links that might be of use, particularly the online resources from John Rylands library from the University of Manchester. All provide background and insight into The life an..."

Thanks for sharing these :)

All this is very interesting. I'll watch the BBC video tonight. I read North and South last September, I don't think I'm going to read it again so soon, but I would have liked to share this excellent reading with you ladies... But I might have a look at your comments, maybe I missed few things? :)

Gabrielle wrote: "All this is very interesting. I'll watch the BBC video tonight. I read North and South last September, I don't think I'm going to read it again so soon, but I would have liked to share this excelle..."

Do join in--the BBC series will refresh your memory :)

Nice to see you have a look Gabrielle! :)

Hello,
I will join in, in fact I have already started :) Thanks for all the background information.

Triin wrote: "Hello,
I will join in, in fact I have already started :) Thanks for all the background information."

Good to hear. We'll start this saturday!

I’m new to this group & looking forward to reading this. I read it once before & want to read it again, so it will be good to share it.

Hi, Trisha.

This will be a great read, thanks all! :)

Thank you Lady Clementina and all for the background information, lovely to read through this before Saturday as I am sure I will appreciate the novel much better when it comes to reading

I'm glad to have the opportunity to read this novel again, together with commentary from other interested readers. I'll start tomorrow, as I think I'll be able to finish my other novel by then. I am not keen on the discipline needed to keep to the schedule, but I'll try harder this time. For other people who feel the same, I have found that by reading too far ahead I find it difficult to join the discussions. It is probably doubly worthwhile doing so at this time, as social gatherings are limited to Skype and Zoom. So, I'll love to join the group.

Hey there, thank you for providing all the background information. I've always wanted to read Elizabeth Gaskell, but it was always on hold! I think this will be a good place to start!

Robin wrote: "I'm glad to have the opportunity to read this novel again, together with commentary from other interested readers. I'll start tomorrow, as I think I'll be able to finish my other novel by then. I a..."

The more the merrier, Robin! I think we are all looking forward to reading and discussing it together. This is my second time reading it, and there are so many details I had forgotten.

Samar wrote: "Hey there, thank you for providing all the background information. I've always wanted to read Elizabeth Gaskell, but it was always on hold! I think this will be a good place to start!"

This one is a treat, Samar. It is one of those stories that a person doesn't mind coming back to again and again.

I was so looking forward to reading this with you all, but wasn't counting on the libraries still being closed! :( I could read it online but it takes me forever that way and I find I don't enjoy it as much that way. It's definitely high on my to-read list when things return to normal though. :)

Hello Meg and all I thought I’d mention I had no problem buying a paperback of N & S on Amazon. I agree reading online is not the same at all as sitting wherever you choose with a book for company. It is possible to download library books using the Libby App from my local library not sure if this is UK wide? I’ve also found kindle is more acceptable as it’s really just an electronic book format easier on the eye than a tablet/iPad. I have read books in paperback kindle I pad I phone and audio books from audible my favourite is paperback and audible how do other people like to read?

The discussion is up now; hope everyone joins in.

Kerstin wrote: "Robin wrote: "I'm glad to have the opportunity to read this novel again, together with commentary from other interested readers. I'll start tomorrow, as I think I'll be able to finish my other nove..."

Thank you, Kerstin.

A friend reminded me of "Nice Work" (1988) by David Lodge which imitates the industrial novel and alludes to "N&S" a fair bit. Could be a nice bit of follow-up to read about the same sort of themes in a more modern setting. According to GR, I have read the book in 2015, but I don't recall anything :)

Triin wrote: "A friend reminded me of "Nice Work" (1988) by David Lodge which imitates the industrial novel and alludes to "N&S" a fair bit. Could be a nice bit of follow-up to read about the same sort of themes..."

Thanks Triin. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading this somewhere. I have read Lodge (I think) but not this one. It would be interest to see how it compares--or rather interprets the theme.

Kerstin wrote: "As I mentioned in the "Tea Parlor" there is an episode on the popular BBC program In Our Time for 'North and South'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08h... "

I listened to the program now that I finished reading the novel again. It is a very good discussion bringing in a lot of background information as well as discussing it from various angles, and more. Much of what the discussion group talks about we have touched upon in our discussion, which I found very re-assuring.

They also mentioned another novel that may be of interest to the group set within the industrial revolution, Sybil, or the Two Nations by Benjamin Disraeli. As far as I can tell we haven't read any of his novels here.

Kerstin wrote: "Kerstin wrote: "As I mentioned in the "Tea Parlor" there is an episode on the popular BBC program In Our Time for 'North and South'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08h... "

I listened to the ..."

Thanks for sharing this Kerstin! And for mentioning the Disraeli book--I haven't read any of his so far.