UB Libraries Book Group discussion

Thank you to Kathy for leading the discussion on "A Time of Gifts." I didn't get to read it and it seems it is a busy time of year for us all.

Next up is "The Rosie Project" with Amy leading the discussion starting January 26. Happy holidays to all!

Does anyone have a copy they would be willing to lend me? I can't find an available library copy.

Thanks -- Lori

Lori,
I ordered one from the Pioneer Library system. I haven't gotten it yet. I would be willing to let you share it once I'm done.

Becky wrote: "Lori,
I ordered one from the Pioneer Library system. I haven't gotten it yet. I would be willing to let you share it once I'm done."

That would be great! Thanks, Becky!

Okay. I'll let you know when I'm done with it.
Becky

Welcome to the January discussion of The Rosie Project! I have a few questions for the group. Let's start with this:

At the beginning of the book, Don is asked to deliver a lecture on Asperger's Syndrome. Did you think Don knew he had Asperger's at that point? At the end of the book he talks about himself as being on the autism spectrum. But what about at the start?

I was surprised that I really liked this book. It was funny and touching at the same time. I don't believe Don thought that he had Asperger's at the beginning of the book. I think he just thought that he had the right idea about things and he liked things to be organized to the nth degree.

I too don't think Don thought he had Asperger's at the start. I didn't like the book when I started reading it, but then I got more interested in it. I can't remember at which point that happened though.

I have a teenage nephew with Asperger's so it hit pretty close to home for me. I had mixed reactions to this book. It made me hopeful that my nephew could lead a high-functioning life like Don as an adult. But it also made me think that Don's miraculous transformation (IMHO) at the end was unrealistic. Of course, everyone is different.

I found I had the same reaction to the book as Ellen. I have a friend with 2 twin boys with autism and hope they can lead high functioning lives as well.
I warmed to the book as well. It is very blocky, but I believe it is presented that way to illustrate Don's life/personal view.
The wife of his best friend mentions that adults who weren't diagnosed as a child, aren't usually aware they have the disorder. I suspect she was aware, whether her husband was, is debatable but I believe he was.
I enjoyed the characters. They aren't cookie cutter but are "real" and happy with each other.
It may be a true work of fiction but I am glad the author ended it on a happy note.

To back up Becky's comment, I heard a bit of a story on NPR where the father was diagnosed with Asperger's at the same time that his young son was. I think he has written a book about it, but I can't remember any of the details other than the basic premise.

I don't think Don thought he had Asperger's either, in the beginning. I did like the book. I agree with Ellen that his transformation seemed a little unrealistic, but I don't know that much about Asperger's to judge it too harshly. :-)

I also don't think Don recognized himself as someone with Asperger's in the beginning. I found the book to be light and funny and more entertaining than I had expected. I think it seemed a little too easy for him to change his behaviors but also know I didn’t see any other way for the book to end happily. I pictured Don much like the character Jim Parsons plays on Big Bang Theory; guess there is a movie in development so will be interested to see who they cast.

Yes, he reminded me of Sheldon too, Kath.

I don't think Don realized he had Asperger's, but it was clear that his friend must have suspected since he asked him to be the substitute lecturer on a psychology topic. The woman Julie and the audience members seemed to be very aware that Don was a fellow "Aspie". I liked that scene where the young people in the audience embraced that term for themselves. I am not sure when Don realized he had Asperger's. I also wondered about the realism of the ending...could that really happen? I did find the book funny, and had echoes all the time of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. Overall, I enjoyed this book, and am thrilled to join this group!

Considering that the whole book was a little bit hard to believe, I didn't have a problem with the ending. However, in cold reality, I would be surprised if his changes became permanent and I don't think they would have been happy together for a long time. There is a sequel out where Rosie gets pregnant. Even though I really enjoyed this book, I don't think I need to read the sequel.

Let's talk more about Don's "transformation" at the end of the book. I saw it as 2 parts: the superficial transformation of his new hairdo, new clothes, etc.; and the most important part, his attitudinal transformation the day after his disastrous proposal to Rosie. Don wakes up the next day and applies his scientific deductive skills to his own situation.

I found his understanding of his own manner of empathy quite profound, in particular, in his relationships with Daphne, his concern for Gene and Claudia's marriage, his feelings for his sister, etc. In this way, he comes to understand that he does feel love and does love Rosie.

What did you think of this transformation, of Don's coming of age?

I'm a little behind, so will attack both questions at once.

I don't think Don knew he had Aspergers at the beginning. Claudia definitely knew, as she asked him if he found anything familiar about the kids there.

I'm not sure I totally buy his transformation. Like someone else -- maybe Rena? -- said, it almost seemed too superficial to stick.

I don't know much about the Autism spectrum, and I was a little afraid that it was depicted stereotypically.

I had a hard time not seeing/hearing Sheldon while reading this, though the physical description didn't fit. I don't find Jim Parsons attractive at all. I finally was able to switch to Benedict Cumberbatch as Sherlock Holmes. I think that fit the physical description better.

Do you think it would have made for a richer story if we saw more about Rosie's transformation as well? (She admitted to Don that she held a mistrust of men because of her relationship with her father). I should back up a minute! Do you think their relationship changed both of them? For the better? Worse? Is their relationship sustainable?

Speaking to the question about whether someone on the autistic spectrum can function as an adult, we had a young lady in our girl scout troop. She was diagnosed with Aspergers. She didn't like sudden changes. She functioned pretty well when she knew what was going to happen.
I ran into her mother and she is now a college student going for a communications degree. So, from real life, I guess a person can go on to being a functioning adult. Not sure how "high" functioning though.
When we presented new concepts she could comprehend them. So the new things Rosie presents to Don, could be assimilated I think as in the book. As in the book, he had to take a bit to get used to the idea. He reacted at first, but then it grew on him.
Whether the character would revert to his original attitude, likes, I think it depends on the practice of the new attitude. If he keeps making that his new routine, it will stick.

Regarding his transformation, I thought the physical changes seemed easier to believe than his sudden-ish insight into his relationships with people. Change is hard for most people, seemingly much more so of those on the autism spectrum. I have had some small amount of interaction with kids on this spectrum; one very high functioning girl could articulate her situation well (ex. "I have autism and I don't like to be touched") but would still have extremely strong reactions (like screaming and running in circles) when her routine was disrupted in any way. Maybe she outgrew some of this as she got older but I don't know. It is a very hopeful view and maybe Don's strong skills in deduction could override the discomfort of the change. The spectrum is so broad that perhaps this is possible.
Amy, I do think that both Don and Rosie were changed by their relationship; for the better for sure as they both came to understand so much about how each other functioned. Enough to be sustainable over the long term? Not sure but could be as long as neither of them found the changes/accommodations they made to each other to be workable forever. Sounds like a statement about any typical couple! :)
Final side note from me: Several years ago I read a book authored by a very highly functioning man with Asperger’s called Born on a Blue Day; looking it up now, he is also a savant. It was very interesting how he described how his mind worked and might be of interest to some.

Kathy,
Very interesting. I'll be interested to read the book you mentioned.

There is a related article in the most recent issue of the UB alumni magazine "At Buffalo"

http://www.buffalo.edu/atbuffalo/arti...

That article was very interesting. Thanks for sharing the link.

I thought it was interesting also, Ellen.
Thanks!

This has been an excellent discussion! I just have a few last questions for the group to answer or ponder.

First, a welcome to our new members!

On to the Qs!

Would you recommend this book? Would your read the sequel (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...)? The rights have been optioned for a film; would you see it?

Last, how would you classify this book? Is it mainly a Rom Com? Is it about having Asperger's? Coming of age? Something else? All of the above?

Yes, welcome, new members! I'm glad the Reporter article worked as well as it did.

Now, to the questions:

1.) I would recommend, but with the caveat of possible problems with the depiction of autism and Aspergers. I probably won't read the sequel or see the movie.

2.) I'd probably classify it as rom com, with a bit of coming of age mixed in.

Thank you, Amy, for leading such a great discussion this month.

Here, here, I agree with Stacy, welcome to our new members and thanks Amy.
I thought the book was mostly rom com too. With the coming of age as well. A reader can't but help being confronted with the asperger aspect of it, though.
With the number of autistic people I know, I'll probably read the 2nd book. I don't think I would see the movie. I don't think I would learn any more from it or gain anything new from the experience.

I'm still not sure if I would recommend the book. And I doubt I'll read the sequel, mostly because of the unrealistic (IMO) transformation of Don in this book.

I won't see the film, for the same reason that I don't watch Big Bang Theory. The character on that show reminds me of my nephew in some ways and it really bothers me to have him be the butt of the jokes, drawing laughter. As you'd expect, life in high school is very difficult for my nephew socially.

I probably would recommend this book mostly as a rom com, and like Stacy with some caveats about Asperger's and austism. I thought while reading this, that it would likely be made into a movie. Seems to fit. I'll watch it if it's on TV, but I won't pay to see it. I might read the second book when I need a quick, mindless read sometime.

I would consider this a romantic comedy also but I thought that it was interesting that the whole book was told from Don's perspective. I liked looking at the world through his eyes and I suppose that with his analytic nature, he could somehow rationally determine that he is in love with Rosie. Logically if it appeared to him that he needed to change something, he might be able do so.

I might recommend this book to a friend, but with some caveats. It was a quick read and enjoyable, but I thought the ending was tied up too neatly. I think it must be difficult to write a book ending, because it seems to me that there are a lot of books out there with endings that make me say "Really??" when I close the book.

Ellen's comments about being bothered by characters being the butt of the joke really resonates with me. I began the Rosie Project fearing that this would be the case with Don, especially with his initial dating disasters and inappropriate focus on BMI etc. (not only fun at the expense of the character on the spectrum, I feared, but fat jokes, to boot!).

I was relieved to find my fears fairly quickly assuaged, as Don fairly quickly emerged as a more rounded, sympathetic, and simply likeable character. I liked him enough to be willing to suspend my disbelief over all the elements that others have mentioned as perhaps questionable. The changes he was able to make, the emotional insights he was able to attain and embrace, (view spoiler)[ and the revelation that he had been able to choose to exaggerate his eccentricities for the sake of humor, (hide spoiler)] made him seem to me more like an individual who struggled with social anxiety/awkwardness (like the protagonists in the movie Marty or the novels The Perks of Being a Wallflower or even The Astonishing Adventures of Fanboy and Goth Girl), which doesn't necessarily correlate with my understanding of autism/Asperger's Syndrome/the autism spectrum, and that reminds me how much I don't know about these conditions. I personally lack both the insight and expertise to judge, so I've been interested in and appreciative of the reactions of those with more experience and understanding.

In some ways, I found Don's portrayal quite refreshing; it's currently so common for characters to be portrayed as on the spectrum and absolutely sociopathic and badly behaved (on TV: House, Sherlock, Sheldon) -- for a character to be portrayed as on the spectrum and really well-intentioned and kind seems a nice alternative.

I did kind of want the novel to end earlier. (view spoiler)[ I wouldn't have minded, at all, if Don really took to heart and embraced his own unique wiring, once he realized it, and decided to spend some time getting to know the world with these new insights, solo, rather than re-focusing on Rosie. It would have been ok with me if they hadn't gotten together in the end, and that might have, in fact, seemed more realistic and have been a very positive message: Man realizes that he's rather singular and decides to be ok (at least for a while) with singleness. But that would have been a different story, and not the rom-com that I think the author intended. (hide spoiler)] So, I was ok with it :)

Given my preference for the ending, it's not surprising that I am not really interested in the sequel... The movie? Eh, I might be convinced. While reading it, I kept seeing Don as comedian Rhys Darby, so I might be disappointed if the casting went otherwise.

Add this to the list of books-I-enjoyed-that-I-would-not-have-picked-up-if-not-for-book-club, so thanks, book club!

I agree with Nancy. I'm glad I read this book and would probably not have picked it up without book club.