Classics for Beginners discussion

I hope many of us have gotten this far! This thread will discuss chapters 50-67. We can also write our thoughts about the book as a whole.

Chapter 52 page 633 (view spoiler)[ I am fairly sure I know who the murderer is now. The spoiler below reveals who I think it is. Don't open the next spoiler, if you are not prepared to have the mystery solved (assuming that I am right).

(view spoiler)[ Esther's appearance when she leaves the prison reminded Mr. George of a figure he saw coming down Tulkinghorn's staircase on the night of the murder. Of course we will naturally lean to Lady Dedlock, as she and Esther have similar appearances.

I think it is Mademoiselle Hortense. Recall that Tulkinghorn used Hortense to check Jo's story because she looked like Lady Dedlock. Lady Dedlock and Esther have a close resemblance. Ergo Mademoiselle Hortense and Esther would have similar appearance as well. Hortense had threatened Tulkinghorn not long before. The question though is why? Why would Mademoiselle Hortense want to kill Tulkinghorn? (hide spoiler)]


Cool you can nest spoilers within spoilers.
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Chapter 50

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I wonder what is wrong with Ada and why she is so upset. Does it have something to do with Ester and John? Or is it about Richard? I hope we find out soon. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 51-52

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WOW! Ada secretly married Richard 2 months ago....When? Where? How? I wish we got more answers from them, but I understand that Ester was so overwhelmed and shocked by the news that she didn't have time to really grill them. I'm not really sure what changed Ada's mind about Richard though, because I remember at some point her telling him that she would be happy if he found someone else.

It's interesting that George would rather died for something he did not commit rather than get a lawyer. It really speaks for how he (and probably Dickens too) feels about lawyers.

George's comments about the night have pretty much confirmed that Lady Dedlock killed Taulkinghorn. If he saw someone who looked like Ester.... (hide spoiler)]

Henry - (view spoiler)[ Ahh I COMPLETELY forgot about the scene with Mmse Hortense dressed like Lady Dedlock for Jo/Taulkinghorn. That makes so much sense. I just assumed Dickens was being obvious with Lady Dedlock. (hide spoiler)]

Wow there is a lot happening in these final chapters. I have actually found myself sitting on the edge of my seat for a few pages. Dickens and thriller are not two words that normally come together in one sentence.

So much is going on!
Chapter 53-54
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First, I am very surprised that Bucket so easily figured out that Lady Dedlock is involved in the murderer. Even though he saw her walking around at night, that doesn't necessarily seem suspicious and mean that she was a murder.

However, I am not surprised that the nosy characters of the book (Smallweeds, Chadband, and Mrs Snagsby) have figured out Lady Dedlock's secret and want to make money from telling Bucket. Also, I had no idea Mrs. Snagby thought her husband was Jo's father

And then....WHAT actually it's Mme. Hortense who is the murderer and she wanted to blame it on Lady Dedlock. Wow, she must really hate her! This must be why she has been so crazy. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 55

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Wait. Mme Ronswell is George's mother? I am confused, did he know that and kept it a secret? I can now see how seemingly random people are even more connected.

Also, why the heck hasn't Bucket arrested Mme Hortense yet?! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 56

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I hope that Lady Dedlock hasn't done anything rash!! Her husband has forgiven her and must really love her. Bucket better find her! It was smart of him to go to Ester for help. (hide spoiler)]

Rebecca (view spoiler)[ Agreed on all counts. What got me is all these people lurking about on Tulkinghorn's stairs in the middle of the night.

Snagsby's wife was immediately suspicious of Snagsby and Jo after that first meeting of Chadbands. She didn't like how he was kind to the boy and gave him money. Classic case of working oneself into a some rather frenetic conclusions over very flimsy evidence.

I still have not figured out why Hortense murdered Tulkinghorn. OK so she dislikes Lady Dedlock. She must be somewhat insane. All this seemed to start with Lady Dedlock favoring Rosa. Hardly a reason to go and murder someone else. (hide spoiler)]

A couple of observations:

I have never got the feeling that this story was being related as happening many years ago from the narrator's stand point. Yet in chapter 50 Esther states this:

The projects with which she beguiled her illness, for little Esther’s education, and little Esther’s marriage, and even for her own old age as the grandmother of little Esther’s little Esthers, were so prettily expressive of devotion to this pride of her life, that I should be tempted to recall some of them, but for the timely remembrance that I am getting on irregularly as it is.

Dickens, Charles (2003-03-27). Bleak House (Penguin Classics) (p. 606). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition.

This sounds as though Esther is looking back from a somewhat elderly perspective.

The other thing I thought that was kind of neat was that Dickens gives us a snapshot of rural England prior to the completion of the railroads. He mentions various elements of railroad construction at the beginning of chapter 55.

Chapter 57-58

I hate how Dickens gives us a chapter of so much information/drama and then a couple chapters that just drag on.

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I'm so glad that Inspector Bucket completely sees through Mr. Skimpole for the manipulator that he is!

Why is Jenny's husband being so stubborn?!

It was sweet of Lord Dedlock to make it very clear that he still loves his wife no matter what and really wants her to come home. (hide spoiler)]

That's a great observation Henry! I never really thought of the POV of the narrator of the story. I think that's because sometimes it's Ester narrating, but sometimes its other characters entirely. I guess she was able to piece together everything and possibly that's why she is telling the story so many years later.

Chapter 59

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So after reading all about the search and chase and exhaustion of looking for Lady Dedlock...she's dead. And then Dickens moves on!! I feel terrible for Ester and Lady Dedlock. I don't know how her husband is going to take it. And it was all so unnecessary because she was never even accused of murder, and thought her husband would be ashamed. And the way she died! Seeking out her dead fiance's grave and dying there. Dickens really has a flare for dramatics at times. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 59 Rebecca (view spoiler)[I officially give Dickens the Nicholas Sparks Morose Literature Award for killing off a character that you desperately want to live. I am actually peeved at Dickens at the moment.

Then chapter 60 pick up just like nothing had happened.

I really thought Bucket would save her. (hide spoiler)]

Rebecca, yes Dickens does have a way of setting you up with all sorts of relevant information, and then droning off hundreds of words of descriptions of weather, misery, and going off into yet another band of character that you don't really care all that much about.

Chapter 60-END

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I am glad that George was able to reunite with his family and that they were so happy to see him again. Hopefully he will be happier now with them and working for Lord Dedlock.

I am glad we have seen the last of Skimpole. What an annoying hypocrite that I can barely stand by the end of this book.

It was quite a plot-twist when Jarndyce told Ester that she should marry Woodcourt because he knows it would make her happiest. He really is a kind man, though it is weird that he went from being her guardian to her fiance to her father.

I see now that Ester is telling this whole story 7 years later.

Ugh Mr. Guppy has now decided that he wants to marry Ester. What a selfish ass!!! Trying to pretend it wasn't his fault that he didn't want to marry her for a while. He thinks she is just waiting around for him to come back because she is too ugly to find anyone else. Ugh I'm so happy to see him thrawted!!


Finally there may be an end to Jarndyce v Jarndyce! What an annoying and dragged out court case. How ironic and what a waste that all the money in the inheritance was spent in legal fees trying to decide who gets the money.

I'm also glad that Richard wanted to reconcile with John and that John is happy to bring him back into his family. Poor man that he had to die right when he wanted to re-start his life as a better husband and a good father. (hide spoiler)]

Those thoughts about chapter 59 are exactly what I was thinking and feeling! Ugh

Chapter 60 to end (view spoiler)[I agree with all of Rebecca's observations. I was surprised though that Esther did not write of mourning her mother more.

Having Richard die after the judgement seemed a bit overboard. It must have been one of those archaic illnesses like consumption or dropsy.

I wonder if Guppy's reversal on his offer of marriage was fueled by some expectations from the new will?

Overall I really enjoyed this book, but it could stand to be about 300 pages shorter. (hide spoiler)]

I agree about the length Henry. If it had about 5 fewer characters and a couple hundred few pages I would have given it 4 stars instead of 5.

RebeccaS wrote: "I agree about the length Henry. If it had about 5 fewer characters and a couple hundred few pages I would have given it 4 stars instead of 5."

Well it is Dickens. Dickens without extra pages would be like a soap opera without questions of paternity.

Hahah you are so right! This is my first dickens novel and I definitely want to read more, but I'll need a break from his wordiness.

Henry wrote: "Wow there is a lot happening in these final chapters. I have actually found myself sitting on the edge of my seat for a few pages. Dickens and thriller are not two words that normally come togeth..."

I found that the second half of the book went much faster.

Theresa wrote: "I found that the second half of the book went much faster. "

Agreed!