Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our May challenge book The Black Tower the fifth in the Adam Dalgliesh series.

After a serious stay in hospital, needing to recuperate, and disenchanted with his job in the Force, Commander Adam Dalgliesh responds to an invitation to visit an old family friend, the chaplain at a private home for the disabled in Dorset. When he arrives, he discovers the elderly man has died, but why did he contact him out of the blue and what did he want to ask him?

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

Just came across an interesting review of The Black Tower, by Curtis Evans on his blog The Passing Tramp - I don't think this contains any major spoilers, but am putting it in the spoiler thread to be on the safe side. It says at the start of the article that it is also about a book by John Rhode, but in fact this article is all about James's book and he saved the Rhode one for a separate piece.

http://thepassingtramp.blogspot.com/2...

The blog post includes an amazing cover from the Faber first edition of The Black Tower, and also a photo of Clavell Tower, built in 1830, which is said to have inspired the folly in the book.

I found it interesting to see from Evans' review that the novel was acclaimed for its setting, which some of us have been finding rather depressing.

He says: "The novel was considered the ultimate example of James' refraining from falsely prettifying death in the manner of the classic English cozy mystery."

Judy wrote: "Just came across an interesting review of The Black Tower, by Curtis Evans on his blog The Passing Tramp - I don't think this contains any major spoilers, but am putting it in the ..."

Thanks for this, Judy. More analysis than I would have thought it deserved. As I wasn't an especial fan of this, I'm glad to read a different perspective.

That tower is not somewhere I would care to sit alone - very creepy!

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "As I wasn't an especial fan of this, I'm glad to read a different perspective...."

I felt the same, Elizabeth - I was slightly surprised to see that it had won an award and been included on a list of the 100 greatest detective novels, as for me it is far from being one of James's best.

On the mystery level, did others guess the killer? I thought he seemed pretty obvious quite early on because there weren't really many suspects (there are a lot of characters but many of them seem too ill or frail to have carried out the crimes.) I may have subconsciously remembered who it was from seeing the TV adaptation years ago, though.

Finished and yes, surprised this won an award. It felt more like a general novel in which deaths take place than 'crime fiction' to me, at least till that last chapter which was almost like an add-on.

I enjoyed most of it more that I expected: the writing, the characters, the setting were all deeper than may be typical in genre fiction. But then the last chapter came out of nowhere as if James suddenly remembered the crime label and crammed everything in!

I thought the murderer was pretty obvious too as he's just hanging around for no good reason, he's on the scene at the cliff and the tower, and it didn't sound like 30k was a lot of money for his lifestyle if even the priest had 19k saved.

Thank you for the review with pictures Judy. I pictured the tower the height of the second shorter one, with the pepper-shaker top of the first very tall one.

Not sure I would include the book in my top 100 but I liked it a lot.

One bit in the review depressed me. Evans mentioned that the books were going to get longer and, in his opinion, unnecessarily drawn out. I may be sorry I wished to know Dalgliesh better.

About the monk robes discussed in the non-spoiler thread: I think James added them as one of Wilfred's oddities simply to disguise the murderer. I liked the scene at the burial when the real priest wanted to get the imposters out of his graveyard.

I considered Millicent early on as the one with obvious opportunity. She was also at the house the night the patient was murdered. I'm sorry, I often forget names. Anyway, it is motive that always eludes me, so that knowing who the perpetrator is can be difficult. In this case, drug smuggling certainly wasn't something I considered.

I found this book a huge disappointment. Although we saw more of Dalgliesh as a person, it added to my not liking him. I know a lot of people are uncomfortable with the disabled, but the slurping of meals etc. was uncalled for. The whole book took too long, and I was tired of his dithering about his career. We had already had a lot of dithering over a woman from him in another book, leaving me surprised he ever manages to actually arrest anyone.
Then after a long drawn out time suddenly everything comes together and we have Dalgliesh as some sort of super-man, even though we were told how weak he still was after his illness.

Elizabeth, I think the one thing that saved this book for me, was the drug smuggling, as I certainly didn't see that coming.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I considered Millicent early on as the one with obvious opportunity. She was also at the house the night the patient was murdered. I'm sorry, I often forget names. Anyway, it is motive that always ..."


I was "sure" it was Millicent when Dalgliesh heard her TV working sometime after she spent the night in the main house because it was broken.

Jill wrote: "Elizabeth, I think the one thing that saved this book for me, was the drug smuggling, as I certainly didn't see that coming."

Jill, you'll probably see in the other thread that this was my least favorite of the series so far. And yes, the motive was a surprise.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I enjoyed most of it more that I expected: the writing, the characters, the setting were all deeper than may be typical in genre fiction. "

This is what has me continuing to read the series. For me, the question is why read if not for writing and characterization? Also, it is different from most of my other reading and I like having the variety.

I also thought the ending too abrupt with Dalgliesh's sudden insight in the very last chapter. And we had the same storm in prior book. I'm not a fan of the hero being in great danger at the end as we know he will live to detect again.

Did others think the police arrived much too soon after the housekeeper found the wallet?

I must remember that any powder in a mystery means drugs!

I couldn't see why the police turned up. All that was found was a wallet. No scuffle marks. They hadn't been to The Grange, and even if they had there would only have been blood on the lino, which could have got there anyhow in a kitchen.

It wasn't just anyone's wallet and we don't know what kind of alarming report the cleaning woman made. I think the police look out for their own.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "For me, the question is why read if not for writing and characterization?"

I love Christie for puzzles: her characters however deftly sketched in, are often types; and her writing is brisk and to the point. So the pleasures I get from reading her are for her brilliant plots and sleight of hand in planting clues.

Dalgliesh had been to Court's house a few times, and could easily have dropped it on any occasion. She met Court driving out so I would have assumed she would leave it there for him to return. Maybe, as her husband was a police officer, was the reason she took it to him, but did the police think he was in any danger, as he didn't until he had entered the Grange.

Jill wrote: "I couldn't see why the police turned up. All that was found was a wallet. No scuffle marks. They hadn't been to The Grange, and even if they had there would only have been blood on the lino, which ..."

Yes, I thought this was nonsensical too. It was like James suddenly remembered this was supposed to be crime fiction and then wrapped it up super-quick!

Roman Clodia wrote: " So the pleasures I get from reading her are for her brilliant plots and sleight of hand in planting clues."

Plot is my least favorite element in reading. I've sort of found myself reading Christie sparingly. Her writing is geared to about 12-year olds and her characters are not well done. I do like her characterization of Poirot himself and so slip one in occasionally, but not even once a year anymore. (Although the Poirot reads were why I joined the group - there's a contradiction for you! I do have a couple planned for summer.)

Well, I wouldn't want a reading diet of nothing but Christie but there's a place for her in the mix. Given that I first started reading her at about age 8-9, she's the ultimate comfort read for me.

Yes I find them comfort reads. For me it was Enid Blyton and straight on to Christie

I didn't see the drug smuggling coming either - I only suspected the murderer (can't think of his name!) for the same reason RC said, because he had no good reason to be there and was always hanging around. Plus, I thought the author was trying to make him seem unlikely by making Dalgliesh use him as a sort of sidekick once or twice.

I'll admit I tend to find drug smuggling or gangs a bit of a disappointment as a final twist - I prefer a more personal motive. I suppose this goes with the whole idea of this being unlike a GA mystery, though (although, having said that, I've been surprised by how much drugs do crop up in GA mysteries!)

For some reason, I never considered Millicent as the killer - I'm not sure why! Maybe I just forgot about her, as she doesn't come in all that much.

Judy wrote: "I didn't see the drug smuggling coming either"

It felt like a cop-out given that there was no inkling of drugs, just all the vague wills/inheritance stuff. I was kicking myself that I'd thought the hand cream/bath powder manufacturing was odd, but let it go. I think I was confused as I thought 'bath powder' meant talc (there's that comment about the powder on Maggie's body) but I presumed by the end that it must mean old fashioned bath salts.

I agree, RC. Christie is my ultimate comfort read and I also started reading her when I was at school. James was very dismissive of Christie, but I think they are similar in some ways.

Do we think that these novels are too long? I have tended to re-listen, as oppose to re-read, but they have not dragged for me. This was not my fave so far, but I did enjoy it.

I don't see how James could have existed without Christie as she reworks the tropes Christie helped to establish. However snooty James can be about writing style, I bet Christie continues to outsell her!

I'm not personally finding them too long but I can see how readers wanting a brisk whodunnit might find these a slog.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I bet Christie continues to outsell her!."

Christie is third in sales all time only behind Shakespeare and the Bible (and I'm not sure I have those two in the correct order).

P.D. James often reminds me of Ngaio Marsh, far more so than of Christie. I think Alleyn and Dalgliesh are slightly similar as police who have teams and procedural elements, but still have something of the GA gentleman amateur about them.

I did find this novel a bit long, although I remember her second Cordelia Gray book, The Skull Beneath the Skin was long as well, and I really liked that one, so was happy for it to go on!

I think James would be happy to be compared to Marsh. It is interesting that Dalgliesh does seem to work alone most of the time - so far, anyway. I know we had the tango-ing sidekick, but this is definitely Dalgliesh solo.

Do we think a detective seems a sergeant? After all, many don't seem to be popular. I think most of us like 'Fox-kin' but the disgruntled, judgemental Troy, in the Inspector Barnaby books, seems to divide opinion.

I do enjoy it when an Inspector does have an interesting sergeant, but I'm one of those who could do with a little less of Troy in the Barnaby books!

Judy wrote: "Do we think a detective seems a sergeant? After all, many don't seem to be popular. I think most of us like 'Fox-kin'"

I don't understand this. Probably need an "English" translation. ;-)

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Judy wrote: "Do we think a detective seems a sergeant? After all, many don't seem to be popular. I think most of us like 'Fox-kin'"

I don't understand this. Probably need an "English" translation...."

This was actually Susan's post, which I replied to, but I think there may have been a typo and it should say "Do we think a detective needs a sergeant?"

Ha, yes. Predictive text - love it...

I also like a good sergeant ;)

Plus Dalgleish is such a cold fish that it can offer some light relief from him!

Judy wrote: ""Do we think a detective needs a sergeant?""

Thanks. Not sure how I did a reply to Susan and then got your name in it. Fast fingers?

Yes, I wondered if seems should have been need there, but I also didn't understand I think most of us like 'Fox-kin'

Elizabeth, you may not be reading the Marsh series (think I remember you had a question about Troy as well). "Fox-kin" is Alleyn's nickname for his sidekick.

As to my opinion on sergeants, I'll be wish-washy and say 'it depends'. A sidekick can be a good device as it allows the detective to explain his thinking while the reader eavesdrops. In reality when the inspector is on duty he would be working with a team. It also personalizes the characters as they interact.

An interesting technique (and maybe we will see it with Dalgliesh) would have the inspector teamed up with a series of different sergeants so we could see him working in various circumstances.

If it is the same sergeant in each book, and I dislike or don't respect him, then I would rather he not be around. And I don't understand why the inspector accepts being paired with the sergeant.

Sandy wrote: "Elizabeth, you may not be reading the Marsh series (think I remember you had a question about Troy as well). "Fox-kin" is Alleyn's nickname for his sidekick."

Thanks, Sandy. No, I'm not reading Marsh. I can't say why, because I've never read even one, but they don't appeal. And I certainly have enough to read!

Since we've just been having a bit of discussion in one of the Cordelia Gray buddy reads from last year, An Unsuitable Job for a Woman, that reminded me that Cordelia gets a mention in this one.

I think there is a suggestion here that she and Dalgliesh may have had some kind of brief romantic relationship, when she sends him the flowers and he thinks about her. This is also suggested in a very brief mention in the second Cordelia Gray book, as I recall.

I was rather sorry she doesn't come into the story, but they do seem like an incongruous couple to me! I probably liked the two Gray books more than some of the Dalgliesh ones, as I warm to Cordelia more.

I also liked Cordelia and wish there had been more books featuring her.

I was surprised that Cordelia was mentioned, I don’t remember any link between them before. I just finished reading this book, but think it was the worst of the series so far. The characters seemed mostly unpleasant, possibly due to the author’s attitude to disabled or elderly people. The book seemed too long, so it’s daunting to know that later books in the series are longer.

It is interesting to note that Dalgliesh tries to hide his thoughts about disabled, or elderly, people, even from himself at times. Even though these books are later than GA novels, such opinions are still quite widespread, I would imagine. We saw that with Ursula, whose husband never considered that he would look after her, after she became ill, and whose friend urged him to find somewhere for her to live.

Susan wrote: "It is interesting to note that Dalgliesh tries to hide his thoughts about disabled, or elderly, people, even from himself at times."

That's a good point about Dalgleish - it's like a split between his instincts and his intellect.

I thought that in this book James at least gave the disabled characters the dignities of an individual personality. Ursula's husband was just breathtaking in his callousness!

There was an interesting bit about Dalgliesh's thoughts in the Curtis Evans blog review I linked to earlier in the discussion:

"Through Dalgliesh--who has always had an aversion to physical contact with other humans that borders on the phobic in my view ("Dalgliesh held out his hand and felt it imprisoned between Anstey's two palms. It took an effort of will not to flinch from this clammy encounter of moist flesh")--James seems to be confronting her own fears of decay, disease and death. It makes for some sometimes uncomfortable reading."

I'll just repeat the link:
http://thepassingtramp.blogspot.com/2...

Judy wrote: "Through Dalgliesh--who has always had an aversion to physical contact with other humans that borders on the phobic in my view "

It makes you wonder how he ever helped conceive a child.

Haha! I don't see it as a phobia but do think Dalgleish is hung-up on perfectionism: only beautiful women, vintage wine, his pristine apartment. Anything that smacks of messy, imperfect humanity .makes him turn away. I can't imagine how such a cold fish of a man who is so judgmental can be supposed to write famous poetry. James' wishful thinking!

Roman Clodia wrote: "I can't imagine how such a cold fish of a man who is so judgmental"

I don't know about poetry - it has never spoken to me, but this is exactly how I want the police. No bleeding hearts, analytical, no one is free from scrutiny when a crime is being investigated.

That's true, but I'd also like some human warmth, compassion and fellow feeling.

I'm not interested in having dinner with Dalgliesh, that's for certain. But I honestly don't mind that he doesn't want to press the flesh.