The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

Our book of the month for May 2020 is The Skylark of Space by E.E. "Doc" Smith. Some parts were written with help from Lee Hawkins Garby.

This book was chosen by a poll of books from the period 1920 - 1939. It won by a wide margin.

From Wikipedia:
The Skylark of Space is a science fiction novel by American writer Edward E. "Doc" Smith, written between 1915 and 1921 while Smith was working on his doctorate. Though the original idea for the novel was Smith's, he co-wrote the first part of the novel with Lee Hawkins Garby, the wife of his college classmate and later neighbor Carl Garby. The novel starts as an Edisonade, but turns into a space travel adventure when the characters go into deep space. The Skylark of Space is considered to be one of the earliest novels of interstellar travel and the first example of space opera. Originally serialized in 1928 in the magazine Amazing Stories, it was first published in book form in 1946 by the Buffalo Book Co. The novel was followed by three sequels, beginning with Skylark Three.

This will be my first time to read anything by E.E. Smith. Looking forward to it!

I got a kick out of this book, and I've always wanted to dig up the sequels.

It's not as good as Gray Lensman, but it's a lot of fun.

IIRC, Garby was brought on specifically to write the female dialogue, which is the most hilarious example of a writer knowing his limitations that I can think of. Maybe Asimov should've hired her, too?

I got this book and its sequel for $1.99 as an ebook, so I will be joining in later this month.

I planned to read this and Lensmen for ages. I plan to join the discussion in a few days

it is for free on Gutenberg, Rosemarie.

I started this yesterday, an audiobook edition not listed on GR. It's published by Books In Motion & I found it on my library's shelves. I'm only a couple of chapters in & it's definitely reading like a pulp so far. Not bad, quick & easy.

Librivox.org seems to have a couple of audio editions. You can find one narrated by Richard Kilmer here:
https://librivox.org/the-skylark-of-s...
or by Phil Chenevert here:
https://librivox.org/the-skylark-of-s...
Chenevert isn't my favorite narrator, but he does a clean job, much better than some Librivox narrators.

Gutenberg.org has free text versions (read online, .epub, .mobi, etc.) here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20869

Thanks for the info, Leo.
I bought the book and its first sequel for $1.99, less than the price of a coffee in our favourite coffee shop, which I haven't visited in 7 weeks-or anywhere else for that matter.

I also paid $1.99 for it. I should have thought of Gutenberg, but forgot to check it. No big deal. The link from GR to Amazon goes to a $4.99 version. A little searching led me to $0.99 versions, but I don't want people to think I'm cheap, so I went for the $1.99 version!

I finished it today & gave it a 4 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

It got an extra star for its influence, but was really a 3 star read at best. I'll wait until some others have read it before going in to details.

There's a lot of romance aboard of the Skylark....

Leo wrote: "There's a lot of romance aboard of the Skylark...."

Oh dear! We should be careful then not to confuse it with the British kiddie show "SkylArk"!

I've only read the first 2 chapters so far. No romance yet. Just some unlikely uses of copper.

I read this one five years ago. I thought I had, but I had to check. It didn't leave much of an impression. I gave it three stars. Here's my brief review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I've read 4 chapters so far can visualize it as a serial in a Saturday matinee.

I'm roughly 1/3 thru and the story is quite simplistic even if I understand its impact of space opera and pushing some education into an adventure. All characters are so cardboard two-dimensional that it borders on an intentional sacrasm

It is very simplistic and gets worse. I find it hard to read because of that. For being the first space opera it deserves respect of course, apart from that there is not much I like about it.

This was an action packed story and a fast read.

It reminded me a lot of ERB's books, but there was more 'science' in it, less body brute force. Instead of John Carter or Tarzan always winning because of their muscles, these guys did it on brains. There was still plenty of head/body description, though. The 'science' was pretty magical, but not quite as much. Otherwise, it had all the same tropes. Still fun. Campbell practically rewrote it for his Morey, etc. trilogy.

I think it was in Chapter 9 where they finally get around to the question of gravity, or lack of it. After the women have a private conversation and then come back to start preparing sandwiches, suddenly the lack of gravity becomes a problem. But they hadn't noticed this before. No problem walking. No problem with the evil man's coat falling to the floor. It reminds me of those coyote and road-runner cartoons where the coyote runs off the cliff but doesn't fall until he looks down and realizes he went over the edge.

Ed wrote: "I think it was in Chapter 9 where they finally get around to the question of gravity, or lack of it."

They were under acceleration before.

I liked a springy floor to offset heavy g :)

Oleksandr wrote: "They were under acceleration before.

I liked a springy floor to offset heavy g :)"

No, I'm thinking of the period after acceleration had stopped. There was still a while before they noticed there was no sense of gravity. I may check again to make sure I'm reading it right.

It is common for SF stories to ignore reality when convenient and that is OK, but this instance was shocking to me because the story ignored weightlessness until suddenly deciding to stop ignoring it.

Ed wrote: "but this instance was shocking to me because the story ignored weightlessness until suddenly deciding to stop ignoring it"

ok, maybe I missed that :)

I'm sorry to see people aren't enjoying this more. It's an early pulp sci fi, full of the joy of imagination. As I mentioned above, some of the Lensman books are way better, but if you are looking for realistic characters or general plausibility then you will still be disappointed.

Incidentally, Doc Smith had a PhD in chemical engineering, so he did have a scientific brain- it just didn't come out much in his writing.

The gee-whiz science & constant action were the big draws for me as a kid when reading these books. Barsoom was cool, but Martians had the miraculous tech. This fit right into the 'America is great' & 'science solves all problems' ideas I was taught as a kid. Times have changed since then. The ultra patriotism of the 50s that spilled over into my early schooling is long gone & new tech went from being a savior that churned out great labor saving devices & made the world better to becoming a PITA to keep up with. This difference in attitude put a damper on the story for me.

Right now I'm reading The Rise and Fall of American Science Fiction, from the 1920s to the 1960s ad the author sees this novel as one of the true pioneers of SF, first published in Aug 1928 in Amazing Stories together with another ground breaker Armageddon 2419 A.D., that became the basis for the comic strip Buck Rogers; this influential strip, which later inspired a radio series, a 1939 film serial, a television series, and toys, brought the conventions of magazine science fiction to general audiences for the first time.

and a quote about our novel:

There is one other unusual aspect of the novel to comment on: contemporary readers, knowing that The Skylark of Space is regularly cited as the story that launched the subgenre of space opera, will be surprised to discover that its first installment features extremely little space travel. There is one brief space flight—an experimental journey around the Moon—but it is not described, only briefly mentioned by the spacecraft’s builders, Seaton and Crane, after it occurred, and all readers learn about outer space is that the far side of the Moon “is very much like this side—the most barren and desolate place imaginable” (416). The first part of the novel is instead devoted to explaining the advanced science that is enabling Smith’s heroes to venture into space, and setting up the conflict between Seaton, Crane, and Seaton’s fiancée Dorothy Vaneman and the sinister Steel Corporation, working in cooperation with the duplicitous Marc “Blackie” DuQuesne. One might find it puzzling, then, that Smith’s story was immediately popular with Gernsback’s readers, since its first installment mostly takes place in environments that would be very familiar to them—Seaton’s laboratory, where he works on his inventions and describes them at length, and the offices of the Steel Corporation and DuQuesne, where various schemes to steal Seaton’s “X” solution and kill him and his partner are discussed.

However, there are clearly aspects of the first installment that would naturally appeal to Gernsback’s readers. In the first place, Seaton and Crane repeatedly express their determination to employ their discovery to venture into space: minutes after his solution soars into space, Seaton exclaims, “That bath is on its way to the moon, and there’s no reason why I can’t follow it. Martin’s such a fanatic on exploration, he’ll fall all over himself to build us any kind of craft we need … we’ll explore the whole solar system!” (392). We are told that Seaton stops visiting Dorothy because “his prosaic copper steam-bath had taken flight under his hand and pointed the way to a great adventure. In a car his friend was to build, moved by this stupendous power which he must learn to control, they would traverse interstellar space—visit strange planets and survey strange solar systems” (395–396). Explaining Seaton’s absence, Crane tells Dorothy that “before the summer is over, we expect to go somewhere. We do not know where, but it will be a long way from this earth” (396). When Crane mentions plans to exploit Seaton’s discovery by constructing a “power-plant” to produce and provide economical energy, he explains why he is not prioritizing that initiative: “Dick and I would rather be off exploring new worlds, while the other members of the Seaton-Crane Company, Engineers, build the power-plant” (403). Seaton and Crane soon invent an “object-compass” which provided “a sure means of navigation in space” and an “X-plosive bullet” to defend the future space travelers from “any possible other-world animal, a foreign battleship, or the mythical great sea-serpent himself” (405). After mentioning their trip around the moon, Crane identifies their next goal as the planet Mars (416).

Thanks, Oleksandr. I hope you'll mention more about "The Rise and Fall of American Science Fiction, from the 1920s to the 1960s". I'll be curious to know why he thinks the genre fell & how. Certainly the pulps did in the 1960s & that cut back on short stories, but I hardly think the genre did.

Jim wrote: "Thanks, Oleksandr. I hope you'll mention more about "The Rise and Fall of American Science Fiction, from the 1920s to the 1960s". "

I guess the author just went for a catchy title. His idea is that SF after the WW2 and to the 1960s was the USA phenomena, like rock-n-roll and blue jeans: others may imitate, but all agree on the origin. With New Wave SF becomes global, thus fell as an American product

I'm finding this a bit of a chore to read. It isn't entirely without charm, so I'll carry on.

Some say this is the first "space opera". But what about The Struggle for Empire: a Story of the Year 2236 by Robert William Cole from 1900? That has rockets going hither and thither and wars in space and planets crashing into each other and all the excitement you could expect. I actually enjoyed that one more than Skylark. And the author didn't even need to ignore General Relativity since it hadn't been invented yet.

There is a difference between a space opera and interplanetary romance (e.g. ERB's series) even if genres are poorly defined

I think this book shows a progression of science in the genre. It's certainly still magical in a lot of ways, but less so than in some earlier works of the same tone. I haven't read 'The Struggle for Empire', though.

I can see 4 and 5 star ratings. Can you explain what exactly it is what you like about it? The few books I read about this age or even much older I thought to have much better story telling. F.i. HG Wells, Jules Verne, HP Lovecraft, WH Hodgson, even recently Mary Shelley's vehicle, 100 years older, they captured my attention much more than this one. Or is it simply another genre, like Phil says, "...an early pulp sci fi, full of the joy of imagination..." which is not to be compared with these other works?

Leo wrote: "I can see 4 and 5 star ratings. Can you explain what exactly it is what you like about it? ..."

In Jim's review he says "At best, it is a 3 star read, but it gets an extra star for its influence."

I don't add stars for influence. I rate here purely on how much I enjoyed a book, and how much I'm interested in having the magic algorithm recommend similar books to me. (The magic algorithm on this site is horrible, so I don't take that into account very much.)

Unless the last section is much better than the first 2, this will get 2 stars from me.

The last 1/3rd actually does get more entertaining. Still shouldn't win any awards for style, but at least some stuff is happening.

I found it ridiculous that they just happened to have 100 lbs of salt. The explanation given is that they packed enough food for 2 years, just in case they got stranded. Good plan, but isn't that a wee bit too much salt?

100 pounds is over 453,000 grams. For 5 people for 730 days, that means 124 grams of salt per day! The maximum recommended daily is 6 grams. Most Americans get about twice that, or 12 grams. These people were planning on needing ten times as much! Mr. Smith must have been looking at the wrong row on his slide rule!

I guess they were not limited at all in what they could take along. There were quite some clothes and shoes aboard so they could dress up for every occasion they possibly encounter on their journey. Like, a double marriage.

I think salt was used a lot more & the reference was probably something like pioneers packing for a trek. Mom & my grandmothers used to keep a lot of salt around when I was a kid. They didn't use it just as seasoning, but for brine to pickle things & a lot of other stuff. I'm not really sure what, but I remember them each having a keg & breaking it out with ice picks after it had sat a while to fill a quart size canister on the counter. My grandmothers didn't even live out in the country like we did, either. They could walk to a store fairly easily (1/4 - 1/2 mile) while we went every couple of weeks since the nearest town was about 10 miles away & we only had one car. That was in the mid 60s. We made a lot more stuff at home.

Leo wrote: "... There were quite some clothes and shoes aboard so they could dress up for every occasion they possibly encounter on their journey. Like, a double marriage."

They did take many clothes, but not wedding clothes. The women's wedding dresses were made for them by the aliens using a silk-like material made from thin metal wires. The men wore "duck pants" which would not be appropriate for a wedding at home, but the figured the aliens wouldn't know any different. I had to search for what "duck pants" are. Basically it is rough canvas, also called Doek, or Dutch canvas. (I suppose you know that doek = cloth in Dutch.)

Jim wrote: "I think salt was used a lot more & the reference was probably something like pioneers packing for a trek...."

Maybe. Still seems excessive. And I don't think they were planning to make pickles while in space.

Anyhow, here are some other notes I made while reading....

They mention the "unjustifiable fad for platinum jewelry". That was indeed a fad in the 1920s. Apparently a large platinum deposit had been found recently. It went out of fashion again in the depression.

I was a little disturbed by racial attitudes and Eugenics of the aliens. They stated "... abnormal persons are not allowed to live ...." Such ideas were common on Earth at the time, but I wasn't really expecting to see it in this novel.

Even more disturbing to me was when one group of aliens says they "shall obliterate Mardondale completely." The humans don't react at all. They don't seem upset. The next thing Dorothy says is "Dick, sweethart, wasn't that the most wonderful thing that anybody ever heard of?" OK. She was really talking about the marriage customs, but still, it was the first thing anyone said after an announced plan for genocide.

The aliens wore bracelets to indicate that they were married. Dorothy suggests "We should have something like that on Earth, Dick -- then married men wouldn't find it so easy to pose as bachelors!" That got me wondering when male wedding rings became common. Turns out, in USA at least, it started during the wars and really became common around the 1950s.

They mention the invention of wireless telephone. Yay! It is amazing how many SF novels even up to the 1990s that never imagined that.

Weird comment: "It is just as safe to go a thousand light-years as only one."

Disturbing comment, after killing a monster: "... it'd be a good Indian now." Refers to the phrase "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." Yuck!

I noticed that last comment too, Ed. Yuck, indeed!

One thing I totally missed:
Mark DuQuesne = Mark of Cain

ah. Doek, also laken, is cloth allright.

I didn't know the expression but just thought it was some exclusive very stiff orange pants or something. Just the kind you want to take with you in space.

There's lots of racism in the older books. That rude indian phrase I did not know. The shocking thing for me reading it now is not only the phrase itself but even more you apparently could write it down in a novel, without a problem.
Wedding rings were already used by the ancient Egyptians. I did not know though it was often only the women wearing them! I found that in the US untill WWII only one in six married men wore a wedding ring. And the rest could therefore behave as bachelors? Why bother then to get married I would think.

Most men still don't wear wedding rings in the US & probably half the women I know don't. If you do any sort of work with your hands, a ring is an annoyance at best & often a danger. Why anyone thinks a bit of jewelry has anything to do with how seriously a person takes their wedding vows is beyond me. They come off easily enough. At best, it's a social cue & those have gone out of style. For instance, women are now "Ms." regardless of their marital status.

I didn't find the eugenics shocking at all considering when this was written. The characters are often described by the shape of their heads & jaws to denote character & intelligence. It was a science called Phrenology that was still quite popular, all the rage through the 19th century.

Many societies practiced eugenics throughout history & it is 'natural'. For instance, a stallion will kill a foal that can't get up & let its mother follow the herd. Hunter-gatherers practice it since they can't afford invalids. It was also the current thinking of the intelligentsia at the time - Darwinism of a sort. Margaret Sanger, Teddy Roosevelt, & many others believed in it.

Madison Grant was a friend of Teddy Roosevelt & his conservation efforts. Grant founded the American Bison Society & was one of the main forces behind setting up the Bronx Zoo, the biggest & best zoo I visited as a kid. He also wrote The Passing of the Great Race or the Racial Basis of European History. The Sierra Club & other organizations he helped distanced themselves from him as much as possible after Hitler & company took the ideas he & they espoused to their logical conclusion. We're just living in the aftermath & have been brought up with perfect hindsight into the horrors it could lead to.

I understand that Eugenics was very popular at the time. Doesn't mean I enjoy encountering it.

Such ideas are still with us, of course. Sometimes in very bad ways, sometimes maybe not. If you are choosing a sperm donor you probably will try to pick one with "good genes", whatever that means to you. If you are choosing which in-vitro-fertilized egg to implant, you'll probably test for "good genes". If you know you carry a certain genetic disease, you may let that influence who you marry or whether you have children. All of those are examples of eugenics. We just don't use that word anymore. And the decisions are usually made by the parents rather than others. (Governments still do get involved sometimes.)

On a more positive note, I think Mark DuQuesne in the book had black skin. (He was called "blackie". I think it was his skin.) That was pretty progressive for the time. Sure, he was the villain, but he was as smart and resourceful and complicated as any of the other characters. Some of the sequels deal more with him. I might read them just to see more of him.

Leo wrote: "That rude indian phrase I did not know...."

Sadly, variations of the phrase continue. A current high office-holder retweeted the phrase "the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat." just last week.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tru...

(Note: we discourage political debates here. Plenty of other places to do that.)

PS: I'm still not exactly sure what a "retweet" even is. I ignore that site.

Ed wrote: "... On a more positive note, I think Mark DuQuesne in the book had black skin ..."

I went back and looked, and it seems he had black hair and black eyes. Skin color doesn't seem to have been mentioned.

Ed wrote: "I went back and looked, and it seems he had black hair and black eyes. Skin color doesn't seem to have..."

I wondered about that since RAH said he was one of the first to have a MC of color in his book Tunnel in the Sky. I'm not sure if it's true & the signs of his color are very subtle, but it was the only way to get it past the editor.

While Eugenics was very often included in SF and other writings of the 20's and 30's, I don't know of many writers writing of the dangers. One of them, though, was Eduardo Urzáiz who published the dystopia Eugenia in Spanish in 1919. I'll try to remember it next time nominations come around for early works.

For me it is not eugenics that pose danger, but people who use it as a reason/justification to affect life and choices of other people. I liked Heinlein's take on it where a couple gets counseling and while 'good" genes are preferred, "bad" ones saved and paid by the gov't