Sagasu discussion

We are discussing The Library Book by Susan Orlean for May 2020

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I am sorry that we could not gather in person but really glad to have Goodreads to share our thoughts regarding the Library Book.. Since we have had lots of down time I am sure you have been reading many book. I would like to share this quote with you: "Reading gives us some place to go when we have to stay where we are". To begin our discussion, please share some library memories from your childhood. I will start. Our library in Edina was in a 2 story stucco house one block from 50th and France, across from the Covenant Church. It was only 4 blocks from our house so I remember walking or biking there with my Mom or my sister. The children's area was upstairs. I have no recall of my school libraries so I must not have used them too much. Umm, that explains a lot. At Gustavus I went often to the library as it was a "cheap date" and Brent and I would "study" in the stacks where it was private and quiet. As I recall, not much studying took place. My adult life is when I really made use of my community libraries. Looking forward to hearing you share your "library life".

I'm so glad you were able to get going on the book discussion. I had no experience with libraries until grade school and don't really remember much until I started to enjoy reading in High School I really loved our school library, the smell, the calmness, it had big windows. I think the card catalogue and dewy decimal system appealed to my sense of order and discovery. I also miss the check out cards in the book - it was always fun to see who else had read your book.

One of my childhood memories is going to the library with my Mom. The library was in an older building on the main street of Osseo MN, which was a small town at that time. The library was quite small by today's standards. The children's section was up by the large front window. I would often sit on the floor paging through books while my Mom was looking through the shelves towards the back. I believe I got my first library card at around age 6 from Mrs. Larson....she was the librarian there at the time. From then on, I would bike to the library each week to use my own library card. It is a wonderful memory for me because my Mom was instrumental in developing my love of reading at a young age. In junior high, I was allowed to take the Greyhound bus downtown to the Minneapolis Public Library. At that time, it was located in a very old building somewhere around 13th and Hennepin. For those of you that grew up in this area, do you remember the old downtown library...it must have been in the late 50's or early 60's, before they built the new one on Nicollet. I always loved going there with all the smells of old and new books. In this month's book, I particularly enjoyed reading the author's memories of her first library visit. It definitely brought back fond library memories for me.

In grade school the library was a small closet at the top of the staircase. A few were able to go in at a time. It was more fun to go to Dayton's book department to pick out books to buy. In high school I spent time going by bus to the Minneapolis Library on 10th and Hennepin, promising my mother I would go no further into town since I was wearing slacks on a Saturday morning! Summers included a weekly trip to pick books by one author before going onto another one. Then came college--no reading for pleasure!
Sandy, fun to read your comment about the checkout cards. I do that at our church library because we still have them.

Hi all, it's dede
Where I grew up in Pennsylvania we did not have a library anywhere near us, and no car----my mom believed strongly in DOING, so we spent most of our spare time outside working, hiking etc----not much reading time. She wasn't much of a reader either so that probably influenced her too. I began reading for pleasure when I joined your book club----thanks to VICKI!!!

I spent the first 9 and a half years of my life in a small eastern Montana town of 1200. There was no library so I was thrilled to move to Williston where there was a LIBRARY! It was very traditional in appearance and had a set of stairs to climb up to those BIG DOORS! I checked out my limit of 5 books every time I went. I remember working thru the the Boxcar Children, Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Cherry Ames: Student Nurse, Sue Barton Series, and several more. I also liked history & biographies. Fortunately the building still stands & is a museum/art gallery of sorts. The new library is a sprawling 1 story building with no character. Though I had to use it when settling my family “estate”, I only remember how to find it.....not how it looks!

Oh my gosh Andi - your book list brought back memories. I loved the Sue Barton books and that is probably one of the reasons I became a nurse. Now my granddaughter is reading the Boxcar Children and I'm reading some of them so we can have our own little "book club" discussions. I loved Susan Orlean's description of going to the library with her Mom, and being able to pick out anything she wanted on her own, then talking with her about which ones to read first etc. Fun to hear of your Library histories!!

As we learn, Harry Peak is a the center of the 1986 Central Library fire. What is your impression of Harry ? Do you think that he started the fire ? Why did he give 7 different alibis to the investigators ? Did your feeling about Harry change by the end of the book ? I thought that it was interesting to learn that it is really hard to prove arson and often the the conclusions have been wrong. Do you remember hearing about the LA Central Library fire ? Do you thin it was arson ?

I thought Harry was a drifter who wanted attention. I wish there was more information about him to create more of a mystery like she did in The Orchid Thief. The different alibis brought the attention he wanted, but weren't conclusive enough to directly involve him. I did think he started the fire, again to draw that attention. Having experienced two fires in my lifetime, I was really surprised that I didn't remember hearing about this fire since I have a great fear of fires.

Harry was an interesting character - one you couldn't pin down to anything. I would be surprised if he really started the fire as his stories and whereabouts on the day changed just about every time he was asked about it. Also I was sort of surprised to find out how seldom arsonists are actually caught though with the evidence burning up, I guess not so surprising. I think Harry's personality perfectly paired with the LA vibe - of being almost famous, but never quite getting there, which made him quite a sad character. I knew nothing about the Library Fire not surprising - not much in the 1980's rose to the level beyond raising kids and working.

I agree with Lynn. Harry was a slippery, self-absorbed individual who loved all the attention. I too, don't believe he started the fire. In the book, the description of the fire and its path was of special interest to me. In 1987, my family's business experienced a large 4 alarm fire in Osseo. We lost everything. I remember that the state arson investigators were there 3 full days, thoroughly sifting through all the fire debris and ash. Believe me, those fire investigators really earn their pay....it's a smoky, dirty job made more complicated by the amount of water that has been sprayed on the structure. They did determine it was not arson. Later, insurance investigators determined it was started by a faulty furnace that we had just installed 4 months prior. Reading about the extent of the LA library fire made me wonder how many fire investigators it must have taken to analyze a building of that size. I think the author was right....this LA fire did not receive as much attention nationally, because most of the media was focused on Chernobyl during that same time period. That is why so many of us probably didn't know about it.

Does “pathological liar” fit Harry? If not, he’s the next thing to it. His creativity was amazing. In today’s TV shows & movies the people who provide an alibi are thoroughly vetted....for instance, could anyone at the restaurant corroborate the story of the lunch? The mystery reader & crime solver in me saw that piece unsettled. I’m also not convinced it was arson. And I have no memory of the fire being in the news......I don’t recall being much of a news junkie. Also our CA relatives did not talk or write about it, several were living in the LA area. Add that to not being on the internet or social media & I come up uninformed!

I liked him. His antics made me smile (not much else in the book did!). He was creative and seemed to be one step ahead of the investigators. I wonder what made him a good friend , other than the tales he spun that kept those around him on the edge of their seats. No, I don't think he did it, intentionally at least.

I remember my home town library (up large stairs and huge doors also) and the children's section where the shelves were below the tall windows. My mother must have driven us, I think it was further than we would have walked. She also took my 3 kids there when they stayed for a week at a time with them. My dad was a beekeeper so had 'down time' in the winter. He was a self-educated man, going only thru 6th or 7th grade. Went to read the Wall Street Journal religiously and did quite well investment wise with what he learned and the $ he put into the stock market. Taught himself Algebra when I was totally incompetent in the class - so he spent hours with me to get me going.

Lots of kids are like Harry - the class clown who, in his mind, didn't have anything important enuf about him to make people like him, so he continued to seek attention the same way as an adult. Poor self esteem?

I didn't think it was a very good mystery but 5 stars to the author for keeping all that information organized. I don't remember hearing about the fire either and I didn't think it was arson.

Thanks, Sandy, for getting me back in!

Oh Bonnie, I so remember the store burning down !! It was so awful. My parents home burned in 1972, My Dad and his beloved collie, Tammy were the only ones in the home. Dad made it out but his dog did not. My Dad really never recovered, mentally or physically and he passed away 2 years later. They rebuilt the house but I could always smell smoke when I walked in.

I can never forget that smell of smoke after my dad's manufacturing business burned down. And it's the cloud of suspicion until the reason for the fire can be found that's difficult.

My memory of a library as a youngster was the little one in my grade school. I liked the sign out sheet and the special smell of the room.
My parents bought books so we had series like Nancy Drew (my fav),
Hardy Boys, Sue Barton. I did not know about the LA Library fire until this reading. But certainly the Chernobyl melt down occupied top of the news at the time. I don’t think Harry started the fire. He certainly was known for being “flaky”, wanting to be important, an actor, making up stories to get attention. Ingratiating tho, everyone liked him. He didn’t seem angry or mean to me. The evidence as reported in the book was inconclusive??

Good morning. Today my questions will be in 2 parts. First I want to talk about how Orlean organized the book. Did it move in a direction that kept you interested ? Did you like the list of books to start each Chapter ?
Secondly, Orlean wrote a lot about the history or books, libraries, librarians, and the LA Central Library history. Did you enjoy that part of the book ? What was the history that interested you the most ?

In my opinion, I felt the book was somewhat chopped up as she would talk about Harry and the fire and then go to the rebuilding of the library, the history of the librarians and then back to the fire. I did like the books listed at the beginning of the chapters. I needed to go back after reading the chapter to figure out what book related to what part of the chapter. Sometimes I never did figure it out !
I liked reading about the burning of books in Chapter 9. Just during WWII a hundred million books were destroyed by the Nazi's !!! Orlean states that to feel the need to destroy books acknowledged the potency and value to books.

I really liked how she chose book titles which were a prelude to the chapter. It was interesting when I actually recognized a title. I have come to the conclusion that I don't like reading books that have a back and forth format.

I like history, but I felt she spent too much time on the quirky individuals. Once again it is the politics of the job. I was intrigued by the fact that 80% of the users are men and 80% of the workers are women. I guess I was surprised by the high number of male users, thinking it would be more even.

I had 3 quotes in chapter 9, one of which Vicki mentioned. "There where one burns books, one in the end burns men" by Heinrich Heine sent chills up my spine. "Destroying a culture's books is sentencing it to something worse than death: It is sentencing it to seem as if it never lived."

I liked the organization of the book but I had to keep alert as to what story was being told. I enjoyed the book titles in the beginning of the chapters but did not find one I had read. I lived in LA for a few months as a second grader but did not ever get to this landmark. I am very sorry I missed it. Of course that world have been prefire. I loved the history shared in this book, probably because of my personal connection to the city. It was a wonderful read for me. I even enjoyed the look of the book itself.

The book does unfold in a sort of scattered timeline - makes me wonder if the author - or most authors / creative personalities are more scattered than sequential, I'm guessing a technical writer for instance would be much more straightforward. But I think she also does it in a way to keep the readers interest, some history interspersed with some crime investigation, and Harry Peak shenanigans. Perhaps libraries are both highly sequential yet in a way quite scattered. Walk a stack or two this way or that and you're in a different world. I loved the history of the LA library, libraries in general, and the place libraries have in our world - to echo Lynn's quotes. I also liked getting to know the quirky personalities of the head librarians, they often made me LOL. Each brought some aspect of themselves that moved the Library forward and she treated each with interest and respect.

Hello, I am joining late because I had trouble getting in. The book was a little choppy, going back and forth, so I had to make sure what time frame she was talking about. I am a huge library person
especially now . I think I am Minnetonka's best customer. I did use the library growing up and in high school (before internet) as there weren't many places to find information. I did study at my college library. I liked the book, found it interesting. I would not have read it on my own.

I enjoyed the history of libraries. Learning that Andrew Carnegie, a Scottish immigrant whose family couldn’t afford a membership when he was growing up dedicated much of his philanthropic giving to libraries, in fact provided funding for 1700 libraries in 1400 communities.
After the devastation of war and the burning of millions of books an international treaty “The Hague Convention” was adopted in 1954 for the preservation of cultural property, which included books, 127 countries have signed.
I liked learning the intricacies of how a library operates. The different departments and the systems It takes to make it flow. It is a big business! Examples: a large library takes in about 700 new books a month, it takes about a week to prepare a book to be ready to put on the shelf. A popular book, checked out often, begins to fall apart in about a year, so many new books are replacements. The movie studios use libraries for research, often don’t return books. Libraries provide for the homeless, world wide, it’s a difficult balance between welcoming them and accommodating other patrons who might be uncomfortable. Well, I liked all this trivia. I didn’t mind that Orlean skipped around a lot. To me she picked an unusual subject and roared through it making observations on people, events, facts that I really enjoyed and appreciated.

At the 3/4 point my interest started to flag, and I found myself dozing off much more easily. I liked her historical point of view, but felt she had too many names & details. Possibly condensation would have helped. At first I liked the book titles as the chapter lead-ins, but also lost interest in looking for the clues. I was very interested in the over-all historical development of the LA library & how very popular it was and is....

Joyce - thanks for bringing a lot of those particulars into the discussion. I too thought it was pretty fascinating!!

Susan Orlean embedded herself at Central Library for 6 years. In an interview she said "I have to learn everything and be in love with a subject to write about it". One of her many reasons for writing this book was "to pay tribute to this marvelous place". She met and grew to know all the librarians and other staff very well.
Central Library has many homeless people using the library and it can be challenging to keep everyone safe. John Szabo said "The most beautiful thing about public libraries is that they are open and free to everyone." Orlean writes on page 245, "but a library can't be the institution we hope for it to be unless it is open to everyone."
Have you ever seen homelessness at a public library ?
Central Library provides excellent programming for children and teens. I was especially impressed by the teen area and staff at Central. How have you used the programs at your library ?

I have seen some homeless folks at the New York City Library and the old Minneapolis Library. Mostly, they were staying warm and resting in the lobby area. I remember taking my kids to the Golden Valley Library for story time, they loved it. I also took my grand kids to the Maple Grove Library story time. They also did puppet shows . I was always impressed with their presentations. What do you think the future holds for libraries ?

My comment today doesn't relate to programs at the Library but one section that I found interesting was library fines for overdue books. LA library overseer, Perry, instructed his staff "to respect every request for an overdue or damaged book. Don't forget to smile. And avoid snobbishness." The fines were humane, ranging from a soiled book to a chewed book. And this is the one I really like: "If you develop diphtheria, spotted fever, or the plague while you were in possession of a library book, you were required to inform the library and the book had to be fumigated before it was put back in circulation, but the library covered the cost." It reminded me a bit of our Co-Vid 19 situation today. Going forward, will our current libraries have to spray down returned books once our libraries reopen? Just a thought....

I think it's so great to have a voice for Libraries like Susan Orlean, and really enjoyed her library tales - the personalities, refurbishing the burned books, library policies toward fines, who and how the library is serving the public etc. I got just a little taste of library inner workings at my granddaughters elementary library where they cover each book with plastic, and wipe them down individually before re-shelving, pretty labor intensive. It is a public health concern for sure. I know the HCL in Hopkins houses a homework program that pairs mentors with students for instance, and are open to community talks related to voter registration, immigrant communities etc. Really a wide range of services. We're so lucky to have such a good system. I think libraries are a foundation of our society, and it was fun to learn about them through her eyes.

Homelessness is a problem that the downtown library has tried to address by opening early on Sundays. With the current situation that can no longer happen. I'm sure the librarians never had this in their job description when training. I did take classes to the planetarium way back when. I participated in Golden Valley's all read one year, The Latehomecomer, by Kao Kalia Yang. The library invited her to speak and then sponsored a trip to MIA to view artwork related to the book. Otherwise I used the library for personal and professional use. I still have those crates that I hauled books in for my classroom for each unit.

Wow, I can't imagine wiping each book down before re-shelving. I would have needed more than one volunteer each day. Reading about the smoke-filled books reminded me of when we moved back into the remodeled media center and many of the books had gotten wet while being stored on trucks and thus had mold. The smell was not good, but I needed to inventory them for insurance purposes. That goes so slowly that I never did find out if they were replaced since I retired in June.

I have certainly read about the homeless making the library their day home.....and can certainly understand it. Hanging out at computers or reading or just staying warm has to be wonderful for all of them. The internet, Amazon, & book stores are my current hangouts so I’m not a library user. If the LA Library is an example, I think there’s a definite future for libraries. They are museums containing invaluable material, & certainly a center for the latest internet technology.

I am not currently using a library. Google and Amazon “used” and 1/2 price books are my sources. After loaning a book to a friend I sometimes return books to Amazon but more often add them to the library in my condo. I found it interesting that some people call a library for random information and they have staff to accommodate this. Fun fact: our library is on the second floor lobby and when I step off the elevator I immediately notice the “special” aroma of books!

As Andi just mentioned in her comments, large libraries are like museums and LA Central Library fits that description. The building's exterior is an example of Art Deco and is situated in the city's historic downtown area. From the relief sculptures on the exterior to the painted ceilings and walls with murals by famous artists inside, this library is amazing to everyone who walks in. The new wing was added in 1986, It contains a number of art projects and a large glass atrium with a massive chandelier. There are photos in the book but they are really worthless as they are small and black and white. I have printed some pictures showing the exterior and interior and will bring them to our picnic luncheon.
There was much information in The Library Book that was unknown to me so now when I go to the library, I will see it through new eyes.
Share one or two facts that you learned.

I was amazed at the effort and expense that was used to save the damaged books. Insurance only covered the building, not the contents. The freezing and thawing of the water soaked books was impressive but I wonder how good they held up for future use.

Hard to pick out a couple of things I learned....there was something in every chapter. The 1st pages I marked were the descriptions of the library staff coming back to work after the fire...”the mood was bleak...the soulless empty fear...feeling of powerlessness, helplessness brought about by confusion...feeling of isolation..” pp. 80-82. Thought that described our quarantine! I especially liked the chapter describing the music scores, etc. that are at the LA Library. And the reversal of all the arson evidence “rules” was fascinating....made me think of navigating the mine of COVID19 “science“!!

I guess I was fascinated by her 6 year commitment and her passion for libraries in general. This history was interesting, especially her interactions with people who worked there and used their facilities. I am glad to know the library system knows how to change with the times.
I would be lost without my library.

I was fascinated by the fact that there were enough musical scores to borrow so a group could play. Over time there were so many changes with all the additional activities added to their responsibilities. I couldn't believe that she even went to an ALA convention for her research. I went once to present a paper and was overwhelmed by the numbers of people and vendors. Thank heavens the presentation was in front of a smaller group. Not that interesting for most?

I was fascinated by the story about the movie studios sending their staff to pilfer movie scripts/books and throw them out the windows to be caught by others!! I believe she said that if they checked them out then others would know what they were considering in advance.

The history of the burning of books was amazing-I mostly thought of the Cultural Revolution, but didn't realize all the other regimes that did the same. Also I didn't know that Mao was a librarian- but still burned millions of books. It was said that in some libraries EVERY book was burned except those authored by him and a few others.

Thanks everyone for your great comments. I was a little worried about how the discussion would go but you stepped up and made it interesting. See you Wednesday, in person !!!!!

Thank YOU, Vicki. Your comments and questions each morning were thought provoking. You tickled our recall of the many bits of information Orlean opened our minds to the wonder of libraries.
Look forward to seeing everyone on Wednesday.